- This topic has 18,300 replies, 268 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 3 months ago by
.
- Posts
God said to an Angel thou art begotten?
Is God Now likened to an Angel??Hbr 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
if Christ the Jew has not come as an angel begotten of God Himself; you are found without a begotten Son; And shall need to Make up your theology to support as pillars in his house shall not stand.
GW,
Please don't throw in the towel so soon. Someone told me here that you need to fight the good fight. If you believe the truth – share the truth you know. Don't expect that others will say, “Oh, you're right! How could I have been so blind?” And then take your gospel and call it their own. This website is not to win converts as maybe you had hoped? But it is to share what we know, and even question what we *think* we know. It's to teach AND to learn. I've learned a lot here……..if you stick around, you may too.We haven't yet attained it, so we push on ahead towards the goal…….. I may be the swine that you are casting your lovely pearls out to (I may even frustrate you and attack your beliefs), but that doesn't mean I'm not listening. That doesn't mean that I do not ponder what you and others bring here. No one knows the heart of another man and what affect you may have on humanity.
Quote (charity @ May 16 2007,18:41) God said to an Angel thou art begotten?
Is God Now likened to an Angel??Hbr 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
if Christ the Jew has not come as an angel begotten of God Himself; you are found without a begotten Son; And shall need to Make up your theology to support as pillars in his house shall not stand.
psst charity,
Christ is not an angel.
He was above them, then below them for a while
but never was one of them.
Heb1-3Wow, Nick, wow. GW's entire post was about the Trinity just being a label for a doctrine clearly taught in Scripture, politely asking you to talk about the substance and not the label, and what do you do? You taunt her with the label. Unbelievable.
Hi Tim2,
No.
Just show us where it is written and we will work from there.
Human constructs from outside the Word are fascinating for some but unwise work for God's family.Quote (charity @ May 16 2007,18:41) God said to an Angel thou art begotten?
Is God Now likened to an Angel??Hbr 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
if Christ the Jew has not come as an angel begotten of God Himself; you are found without a begotten Son; And shall need to Make up your theology to support as pillars in his house shall not stand.
charityJesus is not an angel! Neither he David reincarnated as you have stated in the past!
Are you a Mormon or JW?
Tim2,
If we didn't use the term Trinity to describe the teaching you say is in scripture, how else would we refer to it? This is an honest question. Maybe would you rather “Godhead?” But that is too simple and doesn't really say what's included does it?Quote (Tim2 @ May 16 2007,18:46) Wow, Nick, wow. GW's entire post was about the Trinity just being a label for a doctrine clearly taught in Scripture, politely asking you to talk about the substance and not the label, and what do you do? You taunt her with the label. Unbelievable.
Hi Tim2,
Constant claims of people being personally injured in the crossfire by her devoted believers cannot be taken too seriously as the moribund trinity theory weakly limps again into view swathed in old bandages.
Time is not on her side.Constant claims of people being personally injured in the crossfire by her devoted believers cannot be taken too seriously as the moribund trinity theory weakly limps again into view swathed in old bandages.
Time is not on her side.
**************************
Nick, you're a poet!It is sad to me that those who feel attacked are just as fierce in their attacks towards others, but somehow don't see it that way, somehow they are justified and others are not. I think that is called a double-standard.
I don't believe in the creeds. So, I don't feel any obligation to defend them. I have done some research on how these precious creeds have come about (both by Trinitarian historians and others), and I just cannot put my faith in men who changed their minds and were not wholly convinced themselves. This was proven by a change in the creeds that happend hundreds of years later. Did they really have the truth? Are we not allowed to question it? I most certainly do question it. Does this mean I am closed to the truth? God knows my heart (thank God), and he knows that I seek him night and day.
The Trinity has been the confessed belief of millions upon millions of Christians for 1700 years.
*****************Tim2 – there is no safety in numbers. There is only safety in how you answer one question: Who do you say that I am?
Peter answered that Jesus was the Son of the living God. Jesus told him this answer was from God, himself.
Peter did not answer that Jesus was God of very God, or that Jesus was the second person in the Godhead.
Quote Jesus is not an angel! He is leader of the angels or cheif of the angels.
And he was a messenger (“angel”) for God.
(angel and messenger are the exact same word.
Quote He was above them, then below them for a while
He clearly couldn't have been an angel because he is way above them….no wait, he was also “below them for a while.”Can one angel be above another? God's organization is … organized. Certain angels (messengers) would seem to have different responsibilities, fulfilling different roles.
Actually, I don't want to talk about this. I'm sure there's 8 threads on this somewhere else…
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 16 2007,11:56) I guess you missed my point. I said no one has to understand the trinity to accept Jesus in their heart.
You are correct WorshippingJesus,
I did miss that point, and that is a perfect statement.I apologize.
Many times you can say something that is profoundly true and it gets lost in all of the intellectualizing.
Tim
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 16 2007,22:08) Hi Tim4,
true.
But accepting Jesus in their hearts is not said to help anyone in the bible.
That is true Nick.
I did not expand on his statement, merely recognized that it was true and that I missed it.Tim
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 15 2007,13:11) Quote (t8 @ May 14 2007,18:00) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 15 2007,12:51) t8 No I dont admit the word “theos” in the NT to the apostles meant something other than God or the enemys of God. The word Theos in NT scriptures only refer to the Father and the Son as true Theos.
Shall we throw these scriptures out then WJ.Psalm 97:7
All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols; worship him, all you gods (Elohim)!Psalms 82:6
“I said, `You are “gods” (Elohim); you are all sons of the Most High.'John 10:34
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods (theos)'Shall we throw these ones out too?
https://heavennet.net/writings/trinity-11.htm
t8You didnt read the post did you.
*Give me one example in the NT where the word “Theos” is ascribed to an Angel or living man or King other than the Father and Yeshua.*
The Apostles only used this Word for the Father and Yeshua as true God.
Any other time it was used was for the enemys or opposites like satan or the man of sin.
Jesus use of the word was in quoting OT scripture to the Pharisees while under OT Law.
“Theos” in refering to the true God was only used for Yeshua and the Father.
Again, *Give me one example in the NT where the word “Theos” is ascribed to an Angel or living man or King other than the Father and Yeshua.*
2 Corinthians 4:4
The god (theos) of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God (theos).John 10:34
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods (theos)'Quote (Guest @ May 15 2007,02:28) kenrch Quote kenrch We are God's Representives on earth if indeed we have His Spirit living in us! The Son of man full of Jehovah. What about His brethren?
The Son of man according to the scripture is Yahweh
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.(ASV) His brethren are not Yahweh.
gwwhelchelQuote gwwhelchel
What does “Son of God” mean? Is He a created being? Is He God? Do you have a little God beside your big God?
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (ASV) There is no mention here about a little God. It says that Yeshua was God.
t8Quote I will say it again for you WJ. Jesus is not the Most High God.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
(ASV)
The Bible is so simple to understand unless you have a bias against the truth
Apologies guest.It appears that your identity has been erased.
Alot of spammers come here and register to post their spam. They are recognised by a number of factors and you may have been mistakenly lumped in with them.Please register again and once again apologies.
Quote (Tim2 @ May 16 2007,18:33) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2007,18:53) HiTim2,
Of course.
The Spirit of God was given to Jesus.
God gives His gifts without repentance.
So Christ sends the Spirit of Christ to unite us to him and to God from whom the Spirit proceeds.
Nick,The Spirit is also given to believers, but we don't have the authority to “send” it. How is that Jesus has the authority to send God?
And how is it that the Spirit takes of His? John 16:15?
Tim
As Jesus said I and the Father are One.Just like we are One with them..Did not Jesus say you shall ask anything in my name it shall be given? Dont you go through the Son to get to the Father?Even Jesus HAD TO GET PERMISSION from the Father to get anything done.Remember Jesus pray to his God to get anything from the Father.Now if Jesus was God in the flesh he wouldnt need to pray.
Quote (Tim2 @ May 14 2007,06:11) Wow! And I thought I had it rough here. These attacks against gwhelchel are outrageous. David and Kenrch are the only ones who have made any attempt to respond to what she actually wrote. And Nick, shame on you, you're an administrator of this forum, and you won't even respond to what a guest has to say. t8, what sort of website are you trying to run here, where your administrators run wild? But I admire you gwhelchel for staying here in spite of this onslaught of “insults and attacks.” Any third party reading these pages would clearly see that you've made valid points from Scripture that no one except Kenrch has even addressed. Let's hope there are such observers … Now to respond to Kenrch, I don't think Scripture ever says that any believer or even the church as a whole is “the exact representation” of the Father's hypostasis. Nor is the church called “God with us.” And while the church partakes of the Holy Spirit, as you say, the Holy Spirit partakes of Jesus! John 16:14. Everyone here agrees more or less that the Spirit is God. How is it that God partakes of Jesus, if Jesus is a created being?
Tim
Tim, He that lives in me is greater than the world! Jesus had the full measure of God's Spirit. Jesus was/is greater than the world. NO! Kenrch in the flesh is not an exact representation of God however the Spirit that lives in kenrch IS!Jesus said only one is good the Father. Jesus didn't claim to be anything but the Son of the most almighty Father and so it is with us if we have faith. Jesus by Himself is the Son of man Not God. The heathens of this world are just men but we are suppose to be different having the light of life itself.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
If you have no light then you are not born again. If you are born again then let your light shine just as Jesus did.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
WHAT HAPPENED?! Why aren't “WE” doing the same works that Jesus did? Because Satan has convinced us through his Harlot that we are nothing only the priest has authority to do anything. Is this true?
Jesus said IF we believe in HIM then we will do the same works. The mountain stands tall but who's bigger the mountain or God who created the mountain?
A circus elephant born into “captivity” is restrained with a rope a quater of an inch thick. You see from the elephant's birth he has been in “captivity” restrained with the same small rope which was saufficient to hold the baby elephant. But now being a strong adult elephant he could if he knew it break that small rope easily. But the elephant only knows that since he was small he had that rope that he could not break so he barely tugs on that same small rope and when he feels resistance he believe he can't get free.
Are we to be the same as that elephant? Have we been set free to do God's will? If we believe that the small rope can't hold us then we will be free to do HIS will.
WE are Jesus brethren! Jesus said that if we believe that HE was/is full of the Father and we receive the same Spirit then we too could do the works He did.
When I was a “babe” in Christ and realized who I was I used to play with insects commanding them to get out the way or to come close. I'm talking warsp that could sting me! But I had faith that I was above those insects. Sadly over the years of religion, I began to doubt “only Jesus could do that”. The Lord is trying to re-kindle that fire I once had.
NO DOUBT! Jesus IS LORD! My LORD and my brethren. Our saviour said that we would do what he did IF WE BELIEVE.
I'm not saying that we are equal with Jesus but even as we are having the Spirit of God should do what we have been equipped to do. Their is nothing that can bind us we have been set free to do the will of the Father just as our BIG BROTHER. We are children of the Most High, Jesus' spiritual brother. Less than Jesus but MORE than Satan!
IHN&L,
Ken
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
