The Trinity Doctrine

[Eliyah]

http://www.geocities.com/dabar_olam/

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In other words Yahweh is not just a God by title

The word “god or God '' is not a title for YAHWEH, it is a title of a demonic being see and read above.

[Eliyah]

Also see and read at….My Webpage

I'm not the only person who knows this to be true see also here too, tho. this is not my webpage below either…

My Webpage

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Cubes @ Feb. 12 2006,22:21)

Quote (david @ Feb. 11 2006,23:24) And so do I.  There is only one true God, Jehovah, the Father, the “Almighy,” the “most high.”  But others could be described as god, or gods, either because of their might or because of their being worshipped.  Remember, even a person's belly could be called a god, if food is your main thing in life.   In agreement to what you are saying David, recently my family and I were watching an episode of the Crocodile Hunter.  A very large crocodile had trespassed into a certain village and was terrorizing the villagers.  It affected the community's way of life, even the brawny fishermen did not want to go fishing at night anymore.  So Steve Irwin and his team from the Australian Zoo were called to the rescue and were able to capture, contain, and with the help of the villagers who had never handled a crocodile that closely before, transport and release the crocodile in a different territory.  His effort was to educate the villagers in how to safely coexist with crocodiles so that a siting should not automatically result in killing of a crocodile out of fear. Well, when it was all over, I felt that he was worshipped as a god.  I would not be surprised if songs have been written of him… but certainly, they honored him w/ the highest honor their people had to give and it was something to see their gratitude, admiration, homage etc.   Watching that episode was a good example I felt, in illustrating, that although there are many gods, we understand that there is only one true God.  The One Most High God on whom all other gods depend and have their being.  And that One True God, according to Jesus Christ, the prophets and apostles, is The Father.

Hi Cubes,

A good illustration.

Many are honoured and respected. That is a form of worship. But only YHWH is worshipped as God. Christ was worshiped as the Son of God and the Lamb.

Thanks for your post Cubes.

Off the subject somewhat: that Crocodile dude of AUS cracks me up. He has no fear of animals, just respect, and nothing bad seems to happen to him. Also his zeal is infectious. He kind of draws people by enthusiasm alone.

[Proclaimer]

YHWH like many others is a god. What kind of god is he? He is the Most High God, the Almighty.

[Eliyah]

You would do well to look into the original scriptures, for the English word ” god ” is in the Hebrew texts too, however, it is not referring to YHWH either.

Read this blog first…My Webpage

Modern mankind has only re-defined in their own meaning the title name ' god or God ' of an idol deity, the same as they have re-defined the word ” easter and christmas ” into modern terms of meaning that people merely think they are now acceptable and right to YHWH, however, they are clearly not according to scriptures.

[Admin]

Eliyah,

This is your last chance. This discussion is about the Trinity doctrine. Your Baal teaching has it's own discussion, so keep that discussion there. You keep trying to change other discussions to your Baal teaching.

Keep the Baal stuff at the Baal discussion please. If you cannot tolerate people saying 'God', then say it in the Baal discussion that specialises in this subject. Please don't partake in those discussions such as this one, if you are going to change the subject.

Thanks and I mean what I say about it being the last chance.

[Eliyah]

By Kenrich

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Quote (david @ Feb. 11 2006,23:29) Quote There are false gods of clay. Statues of lizards, golden calfs, etc. Money will be a god, if you let it. There are gods but not the “real” God. Right, exactly. But besides this, Jesus, for example is called a God. Looking at the meaning of the original Hebrew word, and that word does fit him. It certainly fits him more than it fits Satan, mighty as Satan is. So, whether in heaven (the angels were called gods) or on earth, many can be called a god, or gods, but to us, as the scripture goes, there is actually one God. Or as John 17:3 says, the only true God. Unlike any other “mighty” one, he alone is “Almighty.” Act 17:24 The God that made the world and all things therein, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; All the Roman gods no matter how many were false gods. I don't believe there are any “real” gods but Jehovah (Yahweh). As I said before the latter day saints believe there are more Gods that Jehovah. Jehovah is our God. Zeus is a God of different people and worlds. I don't believe that. I believe that Jehovah (Yahweh) is the one God of everything in this universe or any other universe star or anything that be. Does that make sense?

By Sultan

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Yes. In other words Yahweh is not just a God by title, but by His very being. He is true deity. He defines deity. Others are called gods, but are nothing. The term god is just a title. It's funny how what you're saying is Bible, but it seems that sometimes people just want to disagree for the sake of disagreement.

By SEEKING TRUTH

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I believe “god” refers to our treatment of something as god (putting our faith, trust, adoration into it) but there is only one Who is God

By you Heaven T8

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YHWH like many others is a god. What kind of god is he? He is the Most High God, the Almighty.

Then here is mine.

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You would do well to look into the original scriptures, for the English word ” god ” is in the Hebrew texts too, however, it is not referring to YHWH either. Read this blog first…My Webpage Modern mankind has only re-defined in their own meaning the title name ' god or God ' of an idol deity, the same as they have re-defined the word ” easter and christmas ” into modern terms of meaning that people merely think they are now acceptable and right to YHWH, however, they are clearly not according to scriptures

Where did i refer to the baal gad topic here ?

If this is a topic about the ” trinity ” then why are everyone including you talking about ” GOD ” and ” YAHWEH” or ” YHWH ” ?

Is not these off topic too then? Or can't I even make a post about ” GOD ” and ” YAHWEH ” or “YHWH ” here too?

You said

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You keep trying to change other discussions to your Baal teaching. Keep the Baal stuff at the Baal discussion please. If you cannot tolerate people saying 'God', then say it in the Baal discussion that specialises in this subject. Please don't partake in those discussions such as this one, if you are going to change the subject.

Again, where did i even mention the baal thing in my posts?

Also, if I'm off the subject topic, by using ” GOD, YAHWEH, YHWH ” as the reast has, and as you have, then are not they off the subject topic, including you too ?

I never said anything about the baal thing in my posts anywhere, please show me where i did ?

It seems you don't want me to post anything at all in reply reguarding anything or to anyone that people says on here Heaven or T8.

Your the one that mentioned the ” baal thing ” out of all these posts, however, but not me anywhere.

If i'm off topic by answering back to everyone else including you for being off topic, then am i to blame.

I never mentioned the baal thing, you did, and i would appreciate you not accusing me of writing something i did not write, or because i merely posted back to everyone elses off subject topics.

And why are the rest above on here, including youself not being reprimanded for being off subject topic, and doing the same as you accuse me of doing ?

Oh, so its ok for others to do so including yourself, but not for me hum, please read ( James 2:9 ) about doing similar as that.

Eliyah C.

[Admin]

Quote (Eliyah @ Feb. 15 2006,09:37)

You would do well to look into the original scriptures, for the English word ” god ” is in the Hebrew texts too, however, it is not referring to YHWH either. Read this blog first…My Webpage Modern mankind has only re-defined in their own meaning the title name ' god or God ' of an idol deity, the same as they have re-defined the word ” easter and christmas ” into modern terms of meaning that people merely think they are now acceptable and right to YHWH, however, they are clearly not according to scriptures.

In reply to Eliyah's post above, (not the quote above).

In this discussion, I was referring to this post (quoted above). Of course this post alone wasn't the problem. It was the other posts in other discussions combined with this one. The net effect.

I rightly asked for this to end as it is a clear redirection of the discussion to your favourite topic. But you already have discussion(s) for this.

In the “who is Jesus” forum, here are some examples where you have changed the subject to your favourite teaching, even though you had discussions for this already.

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< http://www.freewebs.com/elyah/whoreallywasyahshua.htm > However, to combine a Babylonian deity of “” GOD= GAWD=GUWD, Strongs 1409, 1413, 1464 “” to Him is unthinkable to Him. < http://www.freewebs.com/elyah/whodoyouworship.htm > < https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin&#8230;.14;st=0 >

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you are correct for ALL THE PROPHETS IN SCRIPTURES GIVES WITNESS ONLY TO THE NAME OF YHWH=YAH of Messiah as Peter( Kepha) said in ( Acts 10:43). However, He is not the English pagan idol deity of “” GOD=GAWD=GUWD( Isa.65:11), Strongs Hebrew Numbers 1409, 1413,1464, that people have forsaken YAHWEH-SHUA for in the LATTER DAYS( Jer.23:20, 26-27) either, as it is Idolatry to combine a pagan title name deity to Him( Exod.20:2-7; Exod.23:13; Deut.5:7; Joshua 23:7). Read the posts at this address on this forum. < https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin&#8230;.ry14822 >

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hose who don't answer to the responce posts can't answer, because they can't refute them. Isn't that true? Then why have none done so?

In the Ball Gaad discussion itself you engaged in some pretty nasty name calling too.

I only ask that people here keep to some pretty fair and simple rules. It's not a big deal . The line has to be drawn somewhere and it is respectful to not cross them. It's not as if you were banned for discussing the wonders of Baal Gad. You had discussions for this subject and those discussions are still there now.

[luvedbygod]

1 corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but just one god,the father,from all things came and for whom all live, and there is but on lord,Jesus Christ through all things came and through all things live.

[david]

If you were trying to teach someone that two persons are equal what family relationship would you use to illustrate it?

[david]

In 325 C.E., Roman emperor Constantine convened a council of bishops in the city of Nicaea in Asia Minor. His purpose was to resolve the continuing religious disputes over the relationship of the Son of God to Almighty God. Regarding the results of that council, the Encyclopædia Britannica says:

“Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, ‘of one substance [ho·mo·ou´si·os] with the Father.’ . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.” (1971, Volume 6, page 386)

Constantine had basically no understanding whatsoever of the questions that were being asked in Greek theology. What he did understand was that religious disputes threatened the unity of his empire, and he wanted them resolved.

The creed promulgated by that council did assert things about the Son of God that would allow various clergymen to view him as equal to God the Father in a certain way. Yet, it is enlightening to see what the Nicene Creed did not say.
Does this creed say that Father, Son, and holy spirit are three persons in one God? Does it say that the three are equal in eternity, power, position, and wisdom? No, it does not. There is no three-in-one formula here whatsoever. The original Nicene Creed did not establish or affirm the Trinity.

Even the key phrase “of one substance” (ho·mo·ou´si·os) did not necessarily mean that the council believed in a numerical equality of Father and Son. The New Catholic Encyclopedia states:

“Whether the Council intended to affirm the numerical identity of the substance of Father and Son is doubtful.” (1967, Volume VII, page 115.)

Had the council meant that the Son and the Father were one numerically, it would still not be a Trinity. It would only be a two-in-one God, not three-in-one as required by the Trinity doctrine.

So to assert that the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. established or affirmed the Trinity doctrine is not true. What later became the Trinity teaching was not in existence at the time. The idea that the Father, Son, and holy spirit were each true God and equal in eternity, power, position, and wisdom, yet but one God—a three-in-one God—was not developed by that council nor by earlier Church Fathers. As The Church of the First Three Centuries states:

“The modern popular doctrine of the Trinity . . . derives no support from the language of Justin [Martyr]: and this observation may be extended to all the ante-Nicene Fathers; that is, to all Christian writers for three centuries after the birth of Christ. It is true, they speak of the Father, Son, and prophetic or holy Spirit, but not as co-equal, not as one numerical essence, not as Three in One, in any sense now admitted by Trinitarians. The very reverse is the fact. The doctrine of the Trinity, as explained by these Fathers, was essentially different from the modern doctrine. This we state as a fact as susceptible of proof as any fact in the history of human opinions.”
“We challenge any one to produce a single writer of any note, during the first three ages, who held this [Trinity] doctrine in the modern sense.”
(Alvan Lamson, 1869, pages 75-6, 341.)

Nicaea, though, did represent a turning point. It opened the door to the official acceptance of the Son as equal to the Father, and that paved the way for the later Trinity idea.

“The time is sure to come when, far from being content with sound teaching, people will be avid for the latest novelty and collect themselves a whole series of teachers according to their own tastes; and then, instead of listening to the truth, they will turn to myths.”—2 Timothy 4:3, 4, Catholic Jerusalem Bible.

[liljon]

There was already acceptence for the trinity and the son being equal essence in the christian community before nicea.

[david]

All the time I've been on here, I haven't actually heard of any actual definitions of what the trinity is. So I'm going to put this down. If I missed anything, please add to it.

1. There are said to be three divine persons—the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit—in the Godhead.

2. Each of these separate persons is said to be eternal, none coming before or after the other in time.

3. Each is said to be almighty, with none greater or lesser than the other.

4. Each is said to be omniscient, knowing all things.

5. Each is said to be true God.

6. However, it is said that there are not three Gods but only one God.

[Sultan]

Quote (david @ Feb. 21 2006,23:49)

All the time I've been on here, I haven't actually heard of any actual definitions of what the trinity is. So I'm going to put this down. If I missed anything, please add to it. 1. There are said to be three divine persons—the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit—in the Godhead. 2. Each of these separate persons is said to be eternal, none coming before or after the other in time. 3. Each is said to be almighty, with none greater or lesser than the other. 4. Each is said to be omniscient, knowing all things. 5. Each is said to be true God. 6. However, it is said that there are not three Gods but only one God.

You forgot:

7. The Son is not created, but eternally begotten and proceeds from the Father.

8. The Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son.

[OneoftheLordsGenerals]

All these passages are of scripture that this man talks about, but lest we forget that Jesus was his Earthly name. This man basis all he says on scripture, so to this i say read John 20:

27Then He said to Thomas, Reach out your finger here, and see My hands; and put out your hand and place [it] in My side. Do not be faithless and incredulous, but [stop your unbelief and] believe!
28Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God!
29Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, Thomas, do you now believe (trust, have faith)? Blessed and happy and [a]to be envied are those who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to and trusted and relied on Me.

If Jesus Christ was not God then he is blaspheming by not denying he is God. Therefore he sinned and his perfect sacrifice is no longer perfect. And if it isn't perfect then all he said and our salvation is void. So you preached yopu are saved yet by your doctrine you are not.

Also remember this scripture Phillipians 2:6-11. Jesus was his earthly name, Jesus says there is a name for me that only my Father knows.
And if God the Father is God alone then how do you explain Acts 2:34, Revelation 3:21, Mark 12:36, and so on. There are so many Scriptures to prove the Trinity. John 1:1, Isaiah 9:6, Genesis 1:26, Isaiah 48:16, Matthew 28:19 (why is important to baptize in the name of all three if the Father is God alone.), Matthew 3:16, Luke 3:22, John 1:32-34, John 14:16, 1 Timothy 3:14, John 20:27-29, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, Phillipians 2:5-11, 1 Timothy 6:13-16, Titus 2:11-14 (another claim that Jesus Christ is God), 2 Peter 1:1(another claim that Jesus Christ is God), Jeremiah 23:5-6 and John 1:13(Lord in Hebrew is Yahweh) , John 17:9-10, Revelation 1:17-19 (Jesus Christ is First and Last) and in Revelation 1:8(God is the Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End) and in Revelation 22:12-16(Jesus is The Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End), and even the ones you have said.

The Trinity is true Doctrine and cannot be explained away. How it intricately works we may never know, but thats why God is incomprehensible.

[kenrch]

Group: Members
Posts: 369
Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Feb. 23 2006,00:29

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The Father is God, The Son is God, The Holy Spirit is God.

The Father and Son have the same Spirit.

Luk 10:21 In that hour the Holy Spirit filled Jesus with joy. Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for hiding these things from wise and intelligent people and revealing them to little children. Yes, Father, this is what pleased you.

Please notice:
In that hour the Holy Spirit filled Jesus with joy. Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth,…

As soon as the Holy Spirit showed up Jesus began talking to the Father. The Holy Spirit is the Father.

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

When two or three gather in Jesus' name; Who is in our midst?
The Holy Spirit! The Holy Spirit is Jesus.

Father + Son + THEIR Spirit= Three

————–
1Co 2:14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.

[kenrch]

Jesus said:
Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.

Joh 17:11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are.

How are we to be one like the Father and Son?

Paul said:
1Co 15:28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.

God=Father and Son will be all in all. How?

I'm want truth. I believe this to be truth. If you think not then PLEASE give me scripture why!

[Proclaimer]

Hi Kenrch,

Thanks for your post.

Your statement:
God=Father and Son will be all in all.

But doesn't scripture teach that:

• God=Father;
• the Father will be eventually in all;
• God has begotten a son who has his nature; and
• we too can share in God's divine nature.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but just one god,the father,from all things came and for whom all live, and there is but on lord,Jesus Christ through all things came and through all things live.

So there is one God (1st commandment).

Mark 12:29
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father ? Did not one God (El) create us?
Why do we profane the covenant of our fathers by breaking faith with one another?

Yet the son can be one with God, and we can be one with God too. In fact we can be one with Christ and each other as well.

John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

The distinction is that there is one God (the person/identity) and there are many who have/share God's nature.

Jesus has God's nature and we too can share in God's nature.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Hense: there are many gods, but there is one true GOD, or one original God, (Almighty) from where ALL came. Even Christ came from God. Believing that Christ came from God )not Christ is God) is very important if we wish our faith to be built on truth.

John 16:27
No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

[seekingtruth]

I believe that a revelation from God shows that each side of the trinity argument is right and wrong.
I don't believe that Jesus was “created” but as God bought our reality into being (not creation, but the operating principals which support creation) Jesus was begotten, (brought forth from God being manifested new, with this new reality) in doing so he was “fully God”, but God was not fully in him (just as my body is fully me but “me” is more than my body). Just as our body and spirit is subject to our soul, Jesus and the Holy Spirit is subject to the Father. Spiritual matters are difficult to understand but matters of the soul are impossible (just as we cannot fathom the Father).

The Old Testament talks of God creating the world and we always think Father, but as pointed out in the New Testament it was Jesus. The nature of the manifestation we call Jesus (pre-incarnate) is such that He was the working arm of God just as our body does the work of our soul and spirit within this reality.
This would mean that God as referred through out the Old Testament was actually Jesus For those of us in our reality Jesus is all we can perceive or understand of God (as anything else would be beyond our reality and hence beyond our understanding). When Jesus was here He introduced us to the Father (as one He had recently separated from), a relationship far beyond mans ability to understand with the revelation of the day. I believe God far exceeds our reality (all realities).
As we are body soul and spirit yet no one argues that a person made up of these 3 parts is a single entity, why would God being three part, (as we’re in his image), be a problem. When it came time to incarnate, the manifestation of God (the pre-incarnate Jesus) within this reality had to cease to exist so his essence could be born so as to be fully human (which is why up to that point God was one). Jesus the human with a divine nature, while He was here, is like when we die there is a separation of body from soul and spirit so too when Jesus was incarnate he became separate from the Father (as in independent of Him). And as after the resurrection our glorified body is united with our soul and spirit, this foreshadows the time when everything is brought under Christ’s feet He rejoins the Father (and Spirit) as God becomes All in All.
This revelation would seem to be in complete harmony with scripture and ties in all the good arguments from both sides of the trinity argument.
May God be praised.

[OneoftheLordsGenerals]

Passage 1 John 5:
20And we [have seen and] know [positively] that the Son of God has [actually] come to this world and has given us understanding and insight [progressively] to perceive (recognize) and come to know better and more clearly Him Who is true; and we are in Him Who is true–in His Son Jesus Christ (the Messiah). This [Man] is the true God and Life eternal.
Colossians 2:
8See to it that no one carries you off as spoil or makes you yourselves captive by his so-called philosophy and intellectualism and vain deceit (idle fancies and plain nonsense), following human tradition (men's ideas of the material rather than the spiritual world), just crude notions following the rudimentary and elemental teachings of the universe and disregarding [the teachings of] Christ (the Messiah).

9For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature].

10And you [f]are in Him, made full and having come to fullness of life [in Christ you too are filled with the Godhead–Father, Son and Holy Spirit–and reach full spiritual stature]. And He is the Head of all rule and authority [of every angelic principality and power].
Micah 5:
1 NOW GATHER yourself in troops, O daughter of troops; a state of siege has been placed against us. They shall smite the ruler of Israel with a rod (a scepter) on the cheek.
2 But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, you are little to be among the clans of Judah; [yet] out of you shall One come forth for Me Who is to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth have been from of old, from ancient days (eternity).

Jesus in 1 John 5:20 He is called God, in John 1:1-3 & 14 He is called God, in Isaiah He is called Mighty God, in Micah 5:1-2 He is eternal(without beginning or end).

There is just overwhelming scripture that states The Trinity as truth. Please look at the verses I have given. Pray upon this subject my brothers.

[Author]

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