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No Gene my deluding spirit is not from God;or maybe it is since it’s from the Bible you worship as a god.
2 Thess is not referring to Jesus being called God,but rather a man of sin calling himself God. And just where does it say that this applies to apostate churhes? It doesn’t say that but that’s what you read into it to fit your prophetical scheme. Is that right? What it says in 2 Thess applies to unbelievers and not all the other Christians you wish to damn for disagreeing with you.
Nick,
Do have trouble understanding that the writers of the NT wrote as a Jew to Jews and as a Gentile to Gentiles?
Gene,
Hadrian built a study of himself and placed on the Temple mount. He also created another God of a friend who died. Chances are he also claimed he was God since the imperial cult would teach that. He pretty much literally fulfilled that passage.
“The last here a few weeks ago was Hoghead1 who also left the site because he couldn’t take the heat from scriptures here, he was a major proponent of the trinity and himself more.”
I liked Hoghead but his arrogance and ignorance was just too much for even me with my seventh grade education to resist.I feel like it was me who drove him off because I confronted him about his theology and arrogance.I feel kind of bad about it but any fundamentalist trin site would’ve done him the same for sure.I said nothing personal as he accused me of;it was his weak skin twisted theology that couldn’t handle the truth.It’s amazing to me how one can claim to be a bible and Christian history expert with some sort of degree in it yet be so sensitive and ignorant of the pertinent topics.
Andrew, I don’t think you are correct. People leave or take a break for whatever reason, not always to do with the site. And if it was because of the site, then why waste time and spirit if things aren’t getting through or if people are nasty towards a belief? We all have a right to believe what we believe, and seek how we will seek.
Gene, I’m going over 2nd Thessalonians when I can. You are wrong about Jesus being nothing more than a man now, imo.
Nick,
You misapply scripture as the gospel was not given to nullify citizenship in earthly nations.
Paul did not deny his citizenship. (Romans 11:1)
Instead true Christians are united in the Spirit.
Why are Christians (and trinitarians specifically) so fear filled to imagine that GOD was talking to the assembly of angels – his spirit sons – when he said ‘Let us make man…’? After all, it was GOD that made man – not the US that was alluded to in the suggestion (And God made man in HIS image).
And exactly what is ‘The Image of God’ (please don’t ask a trinitarian as every response will be ridiculously nonsensical!) Do we not know that GOD attributes above the animal creatures he previously created? Do we not know that he poses see the ability to : Create, have personal awareness, intelligence, overt love for all good things, goodness, mercy, grace, desire to do, husbandryness, personal Will….? Which other animal has these full abilities? Animals are effectively a closed system with minimal ability to adapt (takes millions of years to adapt to changing world systems – and some never do!!) And so yes, man is the only creature who possesse these in whole (and yes, some in less part!!!!) just as God does…. BUT do you know that the Angels ALSO possess these attributes? No? Well check it out…. However, READ THIS FIRST, they are not given personal will. They have one Will – which is to do that which God orders them to do – hence they fear NOT doing the will of God – failure is not an option for them: There is no reprise for angels who fail in their duty as this means they are flawed and flawed Angels cannot remain in the presence of God (the only desire of an angel). Yes, Angels have GREAT INTELLIGENCE, are ULTRA POWERFUL, can be tender and merciful and have a can-do (must-do) attitude, BUT only where it leads to fulfil the order that God gave them…
However, Satan, has a higher order (highest) of attributes and imagined that he too should be ‘God’ over creation – a doomed path to his and his followers destruction: those of the rebellion Angels were fooled into thinking that freedom from staunch worship of God – to be free to have their own will (as God had given to mankind) was a good thing… They used their can-do attitude to change to worship Satan not (but ultimately so) realising such a way was their doom (‘For there is no redemption for a fallen angel’).
Yes, Angels are Spirit Sons of God… Mankind is Flesh Sons of God. Sons of God possess the image of God: He said to THEM: ‘Let us make man in OUR IMAGE – after OUR Kind – and GOD made man in HIS image’.
The fear then is that this denies any kind of trinity… After all, since when did ‘We’ and ‘Us’ mean TRINITY as trinitarians creatively claim… Can everyone see the desperation of anyone who should even attempt to claim a trinity from words and terms that refer to multiple entities – indeed that ‘us’ and ‘we’ (and even more weirdly that ‘I’ and ‘Alone’…) can and ONLY SHOULD mean Three??
kerwin….if HARDIAN is the one mentioned in 2Ths2, then he still must be worshiped as a GOD, BECAUSE it say Jesus is to destory or abolish this at his “return”, by his very own mouth. So that has to disqulify Him as being the man of sin, mentioned who still sits in the temple of God.
ALSO PAUL was addressing this writing to the church only ,not the world , Paul and John were dealing with the churhes of God and was writing to them not the world in general, the world was not their concern in any of their letters to the churhes of God. Paul also told them it was an iniquity that was already at work in the churches in his day, but would come to be fulfilled at a later time and it did at the council of necia in 325 AD, when JESUS WAS PROCLAIMED AS A GOD. That is when Jesus took his seat in the temple of God as a God and is worshiped as such even to this very day.
kerwin put all the peaces together not just part and you will see the complete picture. The “IMAGE” of JESUS as presented by the teachings of the Trinity , CHANGED the apostate Churches perception of him from a ordinary elevated human being into a God, AND HE IS WORSHIPED AS SUCH BY THEM to this very day. There exist no such thing as a “real” man of sin, it is just a false “IMAGE” OF JESUS, that was produced by those “apostate” churches because they did not love (hang on to) the truth and recieved into themselves a spirit of delusion IN ORDER for them to believe the “LIE”, this spirit of delusion is sent to them by GOD as a result of them not loving (hanging on to) the truth.
These IDOLATAR’S are all parishing just as it says, unless they repent.
peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
miia….By saying he was a ordinary human being, is not being disrespectful to him, he is the first of the human race to have attained the goal God the Father has in mind for us all. He also was a uniquely created human being as Adam and Eve was also, but none ofthat made him any different then the rest of humanity. HE is our example of what GOD THE FATHER can do for each of us. we should never move Jesus’ idenity away from ourselves we are his brothers and sisters from humanity of human kind. JESUS SAID he was a son of man over 60 sometimes as i recall reading it somewhere. Question is when are we going to truly believe what he said?, IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Just to be more clear, when God said that he alone created the world and everything within, it blows the trinity ideology that it was Jesus who created all thing and thus brings into question the validity of the verses in the scriptures that appear to say so.
God indeed said that he was the only one who created. Now since the very word ‘Father’ means ‘He who creates’, ‘He who brings forth’, ‘He who brings into being’, how is it then said that it was NOT THE FATHER but Jesus who created. Surely then Jesus has more prominence to the Jews than the very father he worships???!!
Of course the trinitarians realise their dilemma and quickly change their saying to say ‘GOD created THROUGH Jesus…’ – oh, come on…please….!!! Isn’t trinity Jesus that same ‘God’? So trinity God is an autonomous entity that can direct its own parts? Instruct the son … Surely that sounds like the Father instructing the son… Ah, yes, they say.., Tjd Father instructed the son who did the creation… (The new trinity ideology!) And the son used the power of the Holy Spirit in actually doing the act… Ah, we say, so neither the father nor the son had the power to do the actual act then? Oh how then are they equal in power in every way?? It took ALL THREE to do the creation… How is that ONE GOD ALONE… How is this ‘I alone’ – certainly if trinity says ‘I, We, and Us’ is God then it should be ‘We alone created all things’.
In reality God (the Father) was talking to his people who were surrounded by tribes of pagan belief in multiple God who together collectively created … Oh trinity… God, our one God, was at pains to claim that ‘he, a God alone, created all things’ – beside him was no other God. Can trinity say that? Absolutely not: beside the trinity Father was the trinity son and the trinity Holy Spirit who are absolutely portrayed as being UNEQUAL in position, power and authority.
Jael,
Most Trinitarians do not believe that us is used in the sense communicating with the other members of the unity of the Spirit. Did you unintentional omit a “not” in the related sentence?
The “us” is used in the sense of a coach telling his team-members, including those which will not actually play, “Let’s go out and win one”. It is called an inclusive pronoun in English.
There is mo evidence that angels do not have free will and the argument offered is they do not sin. That argument is extremely flawed. Some of the flaws are Jesus didn’t sin though he was tempted as we are and he has free will therefore angels could have free will. In reading scripture angels do not sound like non-sourish creatures, i.e, physical in nature. No soiled creature, even God, lacks free will and yet God cannot even be tempted by evil.
In addition I will disagree with the claim that angels are spirit sons of God and humanity is flesh sons of God as neither are correct. The angels that went to Lot’s had a physical body that was touched by touching Lot. In addition they are and were preparing to go to bed when the disturbance occurred. Jesus used both of those proofs as evidence he was not a spirit. Humans are composed of spirit and flesh. That is a technical answer and your statement may not be technical in nature.
Gene,
I see what you mean and I agree until I have information that convinces me otherwise. Hadrian only fills the first few verses. Of course if it is talking about his position then a later emperor did back the Trinitarian faith as well as Arianism and others.
Gene, my question once again to you from July 23rd, please answer:
you said:
LU….JESUS IS A lord, (adoni) human ruler, not LORD (adonia) the almighty GOD, WHO IS THE “ONLY’ “TRUE” GOD,…
Gene, who in the OT is the Lord of the Sabbath?
Who in the OT is the Lord of all?
Can you answer those two questions?
I said:
They are two different beings and together they are the one God, YHVH in the fullest sense. YHVH is both, the Father and the Son, the God of gods AND the Lord of lords. One is seen in the OT and NT and one is unseen.
Then you responded with:
The flaw is your reasoning is that it introduces the broken teaching that Jesus is the one God at the same time he is the human kind even though he is not croosbreed between the two. It is an impossibility just like is impossible for God to be tempted of sin.
Philippians 2 claims that being in the form of God lowered himself to the form of a servant because he did not seek to rob God of his glory. It is the mindset that we are to have as Christians. It has nothing to do with emptying himself of being the one true God.
God would not empty himself of himself because then he would not be God. The AV of the King James interprets “emptied himself” as meaning “but made himself of no reputation” which is in the neighborhood of what it means. To be more exact he emptied himself is equivalent to the words denied himself. It is an instruction he also gave to his students in Matthew 16:24 and elsewhere. He also demonstrates doing so with the words “your will, not mine”. That is the emptying that is important.
In conclusion Jesus teaches us Scripture cannot be broken and if you believe those words of his then you will find the teaching that Jesus is God to be false.
I said that Jesus and the Father, together are the one God, (in the fullest sense of the term) not just Jesus-there are two persons in the Godhead. You assume that one of the persons in the Godhead cannot empty Himself and be sent into a seed that fertilizes an egg in a virgin but you have no evidence that this can’t be done. He didn’t stop being who He was, He just emptied Himself of whatever was necessary in order to become man so that He could overcome sin as someone who could be tempted to sin, and also so that He could die.
You think that He did not seek to rob God of His glory. Actually He never robs the Father of the Father’s glory. However, He does seek the glory of being God the Son. He and the NT writers make God size claims about Him several times. He is our one Lord, in His name all will bow, He is Lord of the Sabbath, all things were created through Him, it is in His name that we pray and do God size things, He is the Lord of all, we can pray to Him, He knows all things, We have fellowship with Him even though He is in heaven, He is the exact representation of the nature of the Father, He is the Holy one of Israel, He is credited by the Father as the LORD that spread out the foundation of the world and the heavens are the work of His hands, Peter tells us that He is the LORD of hosts that has become the rock of stumbling that Isaiah refers to, etc…
Lightenup.
Godhead is an English word and you are misinterpreting it to mean the literal head of God. It is actually more like Godhood but time has caused hood to evolve to head. The meaning is having the attributes of God. An equivalent word is godliness.
There is but one God and that is the one Jesus call his Father and our Father. It is not Jesus.
I know God’s essence was not sent into a seed that fertilizes an egg in Mary because Jesus was tempted by sin even as we are and God cannot be.
The bottom line that it is impossible for God to be tempted by sin. Any attempt to reconcile that fact with Jesus being tempted just breaks as well.
Jesus did not lie when he claimed Scripture cannot be broken.
Hi LU,
There are no persons in God.
God chooses to share his Spirit with His son and those united with His son.
Does Father God have a mind of His own? Does He have a will of His own? Does He have emotions? Does He have wisdom? Does He have power? Does He exist? Does He have a personality? Does He have a soul? Does He have a spirit? Does He have a heavenly body? Does He have knowledge? Does He desire relationship?
Well, your understanding of the term “Godhead” is not the same as mine. I use Godhead to mean those in the position of divine and supreme rule and authority over creation.
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