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Hello All. New guy here.
Scriptures says that ‘God is one’ and Jesus said the Father is that ‘Only true God’. Jesus is called ‘Christ’….
God is not Christ – Christ is not God.
God is not a Servant – Jesus is the Servant of God.
Moreover, what does the word (or term?) ‘God’ mean?
scriptures tells us ‘There are many ‘Gods’… We distinguish our one God from others by calling him by his name ‘Yahweh’ (YHVH, in Hebrew): ‘And Moses said, ‘by what name should I tell the Israelites of your command to go to the wilderness to worship him’ and the one true God said, ‘I am who I am, therefore tell them the “I AM” (YHVH) has sent you to tell them’ (my paraphrased words of the event!)
‘God is not a man..’ – if Jesus is God by trinity (and clearly a man by reality) then count him as schizophrenic seeing he was able to ‘sometimes know all’ and then ‘did not know all’… God cannot be schizoid!!! Trinity God has members who are claimed to be completely equal but are shown absolutely to be unequal: could trinity-Jesus have ‘sent the Father’ – could the Father have been ‘begotten’ by the son? Why is only the hilt spirit sent by the Father and the son (by the way, the son didn’t ‘send’ the Holy Spirit, per se!! It was ‘Sent’ by the Father (it is his, the Father’s, own spirit – not an autonomous other person): Scriptures tells us that the holy spirit was the ‘gift from the Father’ – the Father promised to send it to the believers – Jesus just ‘effected’ (delivered) that sending… Think of a present from uncle jack on Australia. He promised to send it for your birthday, and did. But since it wasn’t yet your birthday, it was held in suspense by the post office until the right time. The postman then delivered it on the right day… Did the posty ‘send’ that gift? Was it his to give as a gift – could he have kept it and sent a different gift of his own? Why not ?(pre-emptive response, of course!)
Further and last… for now… If Jesus is God (Almighty God) why does he ‘inherit’ the earth (meaning Creation) as his kingdom when, as Almighty God he already is its owner as well as the greater kingdom of Heaven (spiritual world)… Surely being only ‘God over the earth’ is therefore a demotion (remember that Jesus was tempted by Satan to obtain this kingdom without going through the agony of death of a holy sinless man… Remember that the kingdom of earth was in the stewardship of Satan… ‘It is mine to give to whom I will!!’)
thank you.
Jael,
Nice to meet you.
Your words are fine but your format is not.
It is easier for me to read when you use paragraphs for separate ideas. Thank you!
Thank you Gene and t8.
Sorry about the formatting. I wrote it all in a hurry and wasn’t looking how it was set out.
As for trinity, I do find those who support it more often refer to the Creed as the basis of the theology – which a strange as I would expect the basis to be Scriptures. Other matters just don’t make sense, for instance:
- Jesus only spoke of (if you believe it) ‘the joy he had with the Father before the world was’ (so what happened with the trinity third person?)
- Jesus only spoke of ‘being one with the Father’ (of course this is nothing to do with a trinity of persons even if you ignore that only ‘two’ persons are referred to)
- Jesus said that to see him was to see the Father (again, surely a trinity would include the third trinity person!?
- Jesus only said he was ‘going to the Father’ (note that he did not say ‘going Back’ – and again, where was the trinity third person?)
- Trinity supporters largely quote Jesus as saying he was ‘God’ because he said ‘Ego eimi’ when asked if he was greater than the jew’s ancestral Father, Abraham. Of course, Jesus was in no way referencing an eternal Godship. Silly, but can you imagine if Almighty God had said his eternal name was ‘One Only’. Now use Jesus’ answer: ‘Before Abraham, God Only’ (presuming the oblique trinity theory that Jesus was using Almighty God’s eternal name to claim he, Jesus, was that same eternal only true God.) Please state any sense in such a response to ‘Are you greater than our Father, Abraham?’ The real answer is backed up Jewish law of status. John the Baptist, for instance, was older than his cousin, Jesus (as Abraham was obviously older than Jesus the Christ) but John said, ‘He that comes after me is greater than me because he was before me!’ (Just as Abraham knew Jesus would be greater than he: ‘He longed to see his (jesus’) day and saw it’.) [there is another similar status verse but I’ve forgotten it] To be ‘before’ another in such a context is not about chronological time but rather it is about Status and Rank: prophesied greatness of one who is to come; spoken of in high reverence before hand… Therefore, yes, Jesus’ answer was a claim to be greater than Abraham. I always ask the ‘how and why’ question: if the Jews thought Jesus was claiming to be God Almighty, their one true God, how and why did they’re I they were going to stone him? No trinitarian ever dares to answer this! No, their anger was that, Jesus, being a man wholly in their eyes (and in reality and truth; holy and sinless) was claiming greatness over their ultimate earthly God-blessed forefather. ‘Before Abraham, Ego Eimi’ – ‘Ego Eimi’ does not mean ‘Only True God’ otherwise we all blaspheme moment to moment everyday: ‘Ego Eimi going out’; ‘Ego Eimi having breakfast’; ‘ego Eimi scared of dying’…
Jael,
I understand it is difficult to slow down and format in certain circumstances. Just it is hard for me to sort one thought from another in my own head and so it makes it helps when I have guidelines.
Good stuff Jael.
There have been many Trinitarians preaching in this forum, but they eventually leave when they realise the points you just made. The last one left about a week ago. He might come back, perhaps he is on holiday. In my experience, these people imagine all kinds of things regarding the Trinity and rely little on scripture itself. Even less so when you show them scripture that contradicts their foundation. It seems that it is too scary for them to admit that this foundation is not a sure one. It would mean that lots of works built on top no matter how solid will fall because of the faulty foundation. In fact it seems that most of Christianity is built on that foundation.
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
So once we understand the true Jesus and not another one, then we build on that.
And who is Jesus?
Jael…..Another good post brother. Jesus was indeed telling the Jews he was more important than Abraham, it had nothing to do with him preexisting, as a sentinal being before Abraham.
peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
T8 and Gene, thank you both for your supporting response. The aspect of Jesus answering the Jews is always a tough one because trinitarians, when they see the truth of the response, are dumbstruck but demand that what they have been taught must be true – despite the evidence that it is not. My question to them is ‘What point was there to answer ‘before Abraham, I am God’ when asked of precedence of earthly importance?
Jew’s: ‘Are you greater than our Father, Abraham?’
Jesus: ‘I am Almighty God’
Jews: ‘Hey, he said he is Almighty God – stone him!!!’
Hello Jael and welcome,
I understand your concerns about a three person Godhead. I understand a Father/Son/Holy Spirit Godhead although I consider it two persons and their united spirit (which is their “inner person” within them and extends from them with omnipresent potential). So that would be two persons and their united inner person…a trinity of sorts, I think that the term “unity” is a better term. The Godhead is a unity of Father/Son/Spirit.
I welcome your thoughts.
LU (LightenUp)
Hello LU, I think you will find that the Holy Spirit belongs to the Father alone: the holy spirit of Almighty God.
Hi Jael, we have both the Father and the Son in us. The Spirit of the Son intercedes for us to the Father. Romans 8
Yes, I believe you are right Jael.
We can have both the Father’s spirit and the spirit of the son within us.
that all of them may be one,
as You, Father, are in Me,
and I am in You.
May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
LU… GOD IS SPIRIT and can indwell us, just as he did Jesus, but none of that makes a trinity of GODS. Just “one” GOD, in all and through “all”. We like JESUS CAN HAVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN US ALSO. IF we let the mind of God be in us, then we will be in him, the same way HE WAS “IN” THE MAN JESUS and He in us, by that same spirit, But Again none of that makes any of us a GOD of anykind.
THE trinity limits GOD’S ABILITY TO A GROUP OF THREE, BUT GOD and JESUS tells us THE LORD OUR GOD “only” is TRUE GOD. ALL who create other GOD’S OF ANYKIND ARE IDOLATAR’S and WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED BY GOD OR JESUS. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi LU,
The Holy Spirit is one. There were never two Spirits.
Within that one Spirit there are two counsellors and many gifts and abilities.
So is the Holy Spirit really Jesus? Jesus said he’d come back to us by the Holy spirit yet that Spirit proceeds from the Father but comes in Jesus name yet as a He seems to be a separate being from the both of them.And this all from John’s gospel, so I can see from whence cometh trinity. But we don’t need it in that confusing fashion;maybe just in another confusing fashion.
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