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Mike,
You cannot even prove that their is one mention of bodies composed of spirit in the bible. You go by one Scripture that is misinterpreted by those who lack understanding of the original language and thus use the wrong meaning for the English words.
You cannot even prove that only bodies composed of spirit enter the kingdom of heaven. You just read into 1 passage what you want it to say.
You cannot prove that Jesus' flesh and bone body changed into a spirit body when it ascended to heaven. There is nothing written and so your teaching is based on spin to justify you lack of understanding of certain passages in 1 Corinthians 15.
All you can do is speculate about these things.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 28 2014,07:46) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 24 2014,11:33) 1) I have not settled on a stance though fighting temptation is at least part of the battle. 2) I actually made an error as I went by only what I remembered and when I actually read it, its speaks of spiritual wickedness in heavenly places. The words “heavenly places” are used only in Ephesians and I am not sure they should be taken literally though I have in the past. I doubt it is speaking of the wickedness of demons as the first part may cover demons themselves and I am uneasy with the idea of demons in heavenly places.
3) My point being that Ephesians is only speaking of mortal humans.
Kerwin,There is no use in discussing point #1, since you don't know what it is you believe.
As for points #2 and #3, I would like to see DIRECT ANSWERS to the questions I asked. I will reword them:
2. Can we use the phrase “spiritual wickedness” to describe our fleshly desires? Do you really believe the context of Eph 6:12, as a whole, speaks about us fighting against our own “fleshly desires”? Remember that it starts off saying that our struggle is NOT against flesh and blood, right?
3. I want to know where you got the idea that anyone was saying anything about us fighting against “those of the world to come”.
How does the answer you gave me answer that question?
Mike,1) Instead of speaking of devils the words “against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world” can refer to the principles of this world which with spiritual wickedness in heavenly places are a description of Satan's wiles. I don't think it makes any difference if it is interpreted this way or the more traditional ways.
2) Pulpit makes a good argument that I agree with for the most part. My objection is the word “hosts” which is added by certain translators because they think it belongs there but is not actually in the Koine Greek.
Quote Against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. The natural meaning, though questioned by some, is, either that these hosts of wickedness have their residence in heavenly places, or, that these places are the scene of our conflict with them. The latter seems more agreeable to the context, for “in heavenly places” does not denote a geographical locality here any more than in Ephesians 1:3 and Ephesians 2:6. When it is said that “we have been seated with Christ in heavenly places,” the allusion is to the spiritual experience of his people; in spirit they are at the gate of heaven, where their hearts are full of heavenly thoughts and feelings; the statement now before us is that, even in such places, amid their most fervent experiences or their most sublime services, they are subject to the attacks of the spirits of wickedness. 3) You choice to interpret flesh and blood as all human beings implies that you mean both those of this world and the world to come.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2014,16:46) Mike, You cannot even prove that their is one mention of bodies composed of spirit in the bible.
All you can do is speculate about these things.
And you can't prove that God actually created the heavens and the earth, Kerwin. All you can do is speculate that the word “bara” in Genesis 1:1 refers to CREATING instead of to FILLING – which the word also means.Isn't our ENTIRE understanding of scriptures due to our speculations of what the words mean? Of course. So you point is null and void.
Now, all I really need to show any NORMAL person that Jesus and the angels are SPIRIT BEINGS is in 1 Cor 15, where we are told that the last Adam became a life-giving spirit…… and where we are told that FLESH simply CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God.
But you are not a NORMAL person, Kerwin. So because of that, I have gone to many other great lengths to help you see what everyone else has no problem seeing (except for maybe Gene).
I have shown you Jesus' words in John 3, where he teaches Nicodemus that we must be born again of something OTHER THAN flesh, because flesh can neither see nor enter the kingdom of heaven.
I have shown you where John doesn't know what he will be, but only knows he will be like Jesus when he gets the chance to see Jesus “as he is”.
I have shown you how Paul eagerly awaited the time his lowly earthly body would be transformed into a glorious new body like the one Jesus has now.
I have shown you where Paul speaks of us getting out of our earthly tents, but not being left naked, because God will give to us a new heavenly tent in which to dwell.
I have pointed out to you that it would have made no sense whatsoever to show Jesus in his glorious transfigured state if Jesus was never going to exist in that glorious transfigured state.
I have show you that Jesus is now so bright that he blinded Paul with his brilliance.
I have shown you that our struggle is NOT against FLESH, but against the SPIRITUAL forces of heaven. (Well actually, Wakeup showed you that one, but I expanded on it for you.)
And through all of this, I get hit with one LAME rejection of the scriptural words after another.
I have concluded that you have it in your mind that angels are made of this “spiritual flesh” that you concocted in your own mind, and you will never give up on this lame and unscriptural thing you've invented.
The rest of the members here have walked away from you on this discussion. They have most likely decided that if you're going to continue on with your willful ignorance, then why bother.
I will now join those others.
Your house is left to you desolate, Kerwin. Have fun in it.
Mike,
Quote
Posted: Mar. 31 2014,03:26 QUOTE
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2014,16:46)
Mike,You cannot even prove that their is one mention of bodies composed of spirit in the bible.
All you can do is speculate about these things.
And you can't prove that God actually created the heavens and the earth, Kerwin. All you can do is speculate that the word “bara” in Genesis 1:1 refers to CREATING instead of to FILLING – which the word also means.
An interesting aside but it does not actually counter my point that you cannot prove their is a spiritual body.
The blue letter bible does not mention fill as a possible definition though some think it essential meaning is choose. I am not sure how that is since it is often used to mean create/form and sometimes it is used in a negative connotation and as such means the un-form. “Carve out” may have a parallel meaning but it is probably to narrow even then. Of course we know God created something from nothing.
Mike,
Quote
Now, all I really need to show any NORMAL person that Jesus and the angels are SPIRIT BEINGS is in 1 Cor 15, where we are told that the last Adam became a life-giving spirit…… and where we are told that FLESH simply CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God.Normal is over rated as John the Baptist was not normal for his day and the normal ones of his day cried for Jesus' blood. After all wide is the road the leads to destruction.
1 Corinthians 15:45 does not say that the last adam is Jesus. Men claim that is so but men claim many things that are not true. Paul, who was carried along by the Spirit states “The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.” is all written in the Old Testament. There is not one place in the OT that states the Messiah will be a live given spirit. What is written is that Adam was created of the dust of the ground joined with a life given spirit. It is also written that Adam was both made a living soul and Adam was made in the image and likeness of God.
Mike,
Quote I have shown you Jesus' words in John 3, where he teaches Nicodemus that we must be born again of something OTHER THAN flesh, because flesh can neither see nor enter the kingdom of heaven. You are stretching again as if you do not know the words of John 1:13. Scripture does declare that Jesus is the first born from among the dead and it also bears witness that he was born in a flesh and bone body.
Where do you get this body made of spirit from? There is no mention of such a body in his speech to Nicodemus. He just told Nicodemus something the later should already know being a teacher of Israel. To this day Jews immerse there people in water and have them make a pledge to change their spirit.
Mike,
Quote I have shown you where Paul speaks of us getting out of our earthly tents, but not being left naked, because God will give to us a new heavenly tent in which to dwell. You have shown me that you invent things as you have no evidence there is a spirit body. The only creatures I know for sure have forms made of spirits are ghost and they have no body. There may also be some demons and angels that also are spirits like ghosts.
Now Jesus is the firstborn of the dead and yet you claim he was not wearing his heavenly body when he arose from the dead even though no evidence he was not.
Jesus is the evidence Paul put forth in 1 Corinthians 15 that their is a resurrection of the dead and yet you not believe the body he rose in is evidence of the body those who are resurrected will raise in.
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