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Quote (Baker @ April 02 2011,23:33) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2011,22:14) Karamarie, There is nothing wrong with speaking in mysticisms if you are speaking according to the Spirit of God.
We are speaking of the false teachings which John addresses in his writings.
Here are the scriptures. Gene seems to be using mainly 1 John 4:3 though he may be using the others as well.
Quote 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
These scripture as all scriptures all interpreted correctly only through the command of love they neighbor as yourself. That command is taught by the Holy Spirit in its role as councilor.
Note: All scriptures from King James Version of Scriptures.
False teaching according to YOU! What if YOU are wrong, and YOu are assuming that the Scriptures I presented are wrong. Now you made a statement. Prove it!!!!! I can prove by the Scriptures first that Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. Col. 1:15 Secondly that God created all by JesusCol 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men
I know that John is very controversial, but consider this Scripture to show that it could not be anotheer being but Jesus
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
I ask you is there another being that fits that description? If you do please show me!!!!!
The Word of God, God, KING OF KINGS, LORD OF LORDS and presidents are all titles. All involved have other names….
Jesus also was the Firstborn of the death
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 ¶ For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
He is first in all, so that He may have preeminence….
In John we have more Scriptures about that Jesus preexisted, but to me theses are self expainable, especially Rev. 19…..
Peace Irene
Kerwin! I am bringing this post up, because of Gene's last post to you. I have said more then one time that God, The Word of God are all titles. Jesus has that title. He is also King of Kings and Lord of Lords. All titles like the President is. Do we call the President, President. Oh yes we do….. I find nothing wrong when one says Jesus is The Word of God…..Or He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He is called all of that…..Now who is playing with Words…Gene will do anything to discredit me, and I have no idea why. Pick on t8 or Mike for awhile Gene!!!! I know your4 reading this…….Peace and Love IreneKerwin……….Does me calling Jimmy Carter Mr President mean he still is President then or He WAS President. Revelation say HE (CALLED) the word of GOD that simply is a title, GOD is his OWN WORDS, Just as you and I are OUR OWN WORDS, Unless we are quoting someone as JESUS WAS. “”GOD WHO AT DIFFERENT TIMES (SPOKE) TO US (THROUGH) THE PROPHETS HAS N THESE LATTER DAY (SPOKEN) O US (THROUGH) A SON” just that simple nothing complicated about it. Trying to move Jesus to a level as He IS The word of God is Just Not true, He is a SPOKESMAN of the Words of GOD to Us. Just that simple . Though i already know you know and understand this. Irene think every time i disagree with her it is a Put down or attack on her charter it is NOT .
peace and love to you and yours kerwin………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 03 2011,05:08) Kerwin,…….> that the point Irene is playing word games. If you say She does not believe Jesus came INTO EXISTENCE in the flesh , she she switches it as you trying to say Jesus was not born then she proceed to say that is not true she does believe Jesus was Born in the Flesh, leaving out the word Morphed into existence from another state of Being. Clever right, but i am not even sure she realizes she was doing that either. So what ever> IMO peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………….gene
Gene,What you are should say is that according to your understanding she is being deceived into believing that John means anyone who does not believe that the spirit being that was the preexistent Jesus entered into human flesh.
If that is what she does say then I would like to also know how she believes “made flesh” and “comes in the flesh” are synomonous statements?
Never the less, I have come to believe you should treat other posters on this site as if they are deceived rather than knowlingly misusing scripture unless you have proof beyond a reasonable doubt they are knowlingly sinning.
All indications I see is that Irene believes you also are misled.
This is why we each should be careful to always test our own doctriner and behavior to make sure it is in line with the Spirit of God.
Kerwin………..I do see you point , that is why most of the time i end my posts in IMO. Because it is JUST and OPINION of MINE. I will try to be Kinder in my Dialog with Her and others Here. Sometimes it gets frustrating Brother.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ April 05 2011,15:20) Irene, How are the clauses “made flesh” and “come in the flesh” synomynous?
Kerwin! First of all I want to say this. I don't appreciate to be labeled by either you, Gene or others. I don't like it, and I don't do it to others. I can say the same thing about anyone. Doing so is judging that person. When you do that you also thinking that about t8, Mike and whoever believes in the preexisting of Jesus. The trinity also has nothing to do with it. Now to the ScriptureJhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Pasted fro the Blue letter Bible on the Internet, which I use all the time. When I am however in doubt I check all our Bibles.
This says “was made flesh.”
My KJV says “became flesh.”
James Moffatt says “the Logos became flesh.
Our German Bible says ” ist fleisch geworden, meaning it became flesh.
NIV says “became flesh.
Rye Study Bible says ” was made flesh.
The meaning is all the same. The Word of God became flesh……
Peace IreneQuote (kerwin @ April 05 2011,15:16) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 03 2011,05:08) Kerwin,…….> that the point Irene is playing word games. If you say She does not believe Jesus came INTO EXISTENCE in the flesh , she she switches it as you trying to say Jesus was not born then she proceed to say that is not true she does believe Jesus was Born in the Flesh, leaving out the word Morphed into existence from another state of Being. Clever right, but i am not even sure she realizes she was doing that either. So what ever> IMO peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………….gene
Gene,What you are should say is that according to your understanding she is being deceived into believing that John means anyone who does not believe that the spirit being that was the preexistent Jesus entered into human flesh.
If that is what she does say then I would like to also know how she believes “made flesh” and “comes in the flesh” are synomonous statements?
Never the less, I have come to believe you should treat other posters on this site as if they are deceived rather than knowlingly misusing scripture unless you have proof beyond a reasonable doubt they are knowlingly sinning.
All indications I see is that Irene believes you also are misled.
This is why we each should be careful to always test our own doctriner and behavior to make sure it is in line with the Spirit of God.
Nobody should say what you are teaching Gene to say….That is to me self righteous….So that is also to me taking sides, You obvious believe not what Scriptures say. Do you like it when I say that to you, that you are deceived, because you don't understand it?
I am not using anything but Scriptures. Scriptures is not my opinion, it is the truth. Therefore if you want to ignore Scriptures the way they are written, that is your problem, but stop teaching and labeling me…..I am ending this debate with you and Gene….Have a nice day….
Kerwin………Now what Irene has just said is not self righteous and a put down right? She says what she post is NOT Her OPINION like She is the true Representative of Scriptures, but what we post even if we produce Scripture is JUST OUR OPINIONS, And she has the nerve to say we put her down and she does not do that right!. Kerwin thank for you advice brother.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
kerwin! When I quote Scriptures that is not my opinion, that is plain Scriptures. If I would interpret Scriptures to fit something else rather then what it says, that would be my opinion…..
Example Jesus says He came down from Heaven to do the will of His Father who send Him. Now if I would say we all came down from Heaven, that would be my opinion. If I would say Jesus came down from Heaven, that would not be my opinion, but Scripture. See the difference…I don't say it, but Scripture does. Would I then be a Representative of that Scripture, YOU bet I would….. I do not interpret that Scripture, but say it the way it is written….I believe what it says. Jesus was with His Father before He became flesh, Scripture says so. The firstborn of all creation, I believe that. I don't interpret that Scripture. I believe it….. I will shout it from the rooftop if I could…. I believe it…….
Peace IreneIrene,
I am sincere when I state I believe you are decieved by the devil and I am sure you believe the same as me since it is my understand you are sincere in your own beliefs. I do not take your opinion on that matter as an insult as you obviously do not have the same doctrine as I do.
That is not intended as being derogatory of your person since we have all been deceived in the past and may also be decieved in the pressent as well. That is why it is imperitive that we continually test the spririt of our doctrines and our actions and ask, seek, and knock for direction from the Spirit of God.
I understand a more extreme view than Gene in that I view any false doctrine as a doctrine that opposes Jesus the Anointed.
Quote (kerwin @ April 06 2011,19:40) Irene, I am sincere when I state I believe you are decieved by the devil and I am sure you believe the same as me since it is my understand you are sincere in your own beliefs. I do not take your opinion on that matter as an insult as you obviously do not have the same doctrine as I do.
That is not intended as being derogatory of your person since we have all been deceived in the past and may also be decieved in the pressent as well. That is why it is imperitive that we continually test the spririt of our doctrines and our actions and ask, seek, and knock for direction from the Spirit of God.
I understand a more extreme view than Gene in that I view any false doctrine as a doctrine that opposes Jesus the Anointed.
kerwin! Then what you are saying that Scripture is false, and those that believe in them are deceived. My friend have you any idea how many of us you are talking about? That too is judging… And what does Scripture say about that? You know what else. You go right ahead, with saying that, because that is what they did with Jesus. And I am in good company, with Mike, t8 and others. Even Jesus said He came down from Heaven to do the will of his Father who send him, and YOU are telling Jesus He is a liar. You don't insult only ME but Jesus also….That is a hard thing to say…. to say the least…. Good bye I will never debate with someone that calls Jesus a liar…..IreneIrene………Another Put down? Now you start Lying also, Where did i ever say i did Not believe there were DEVILS or SATANS. Please Post it if you Can> I see it is OK for you to put people down But if they put you down then you go and cry “PERSONAL ATTACKS”, Lets see if T8 gives you a tile for you HYPOCRITICAL insults.
gene
To all that read Gene's post. In the i am Lucifer tread is the prove that Gene back then said there is no Devil or Satan…..
Irene,
I believe that Gene is deceived that he does not believe that Satan, a fallen angel, sees to lure us into sin. I am not sure how important that belief is to the gospel though I see the intelligence beyond the evil one’s actions. If it is not important then we are free to differ in opinion on the matter. If it is then our disagreement shows to prove that one or both of us are deceived which is to say those deceived have yet to learn more.
You are correct that I believe that my doctrine is what Jesus teaches but that does make is so. My teaching may be against Christ. That is why I previously stated:
Quote That is why it is imperative that we continually test the spirit of our doctrines and our actions and ask, seek, and knock for direction from the Spirit of God. I thereby acknowledge that as God states:
Jeremiah 17(KJV)
Quote 9The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
In conclusion I was stating any teaching that alters Jesus’ teaching in any way is a spirit of the anti-Christ.
Kerwin! lets look at some Scriptures that defines what the Spirit of Anti_Christ is.
1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Question, have I ever denied that Christ first is the Son of God, or have denied that Jesus came in the flesh? NO a THOUSAND NO NO's
Peace Irene
Quote (Baker @ April 07 2011,10:45) To all that read Gene's post. In the i am Lucifer tread is the prove that Gene back then said there is no Devil or Satan…..
Irene………If you care to post the complete Posts i made you will find I said there is not DEVIL or SATAN, “BEING”, I never said that there is no ADVERSARIAL (SATAN OR DEVIL) SPIRIT (intellect) now did I. But if you would have read what i posted correctly you would have understood that. IMOSo continuing to misquote me and misrepresenting what i have said seems to be you big problem IMO
peace and love…………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 07 2011,08:58) Quote (Baker @ April 07 2011,10:45) To all that read Gene's post. In the i am Lucifer tread is the prove that Gene back then said there is no Devil or Satan…..
Irene………If you care to post the complete Posts i made you will find I said there is not DEVIL or SATAN, “BEING”, I never said that there is no ADVERSARIAL (SATAN OR DEVIL) SPIRIT (intellect) now did I. But if you would have read what i posted correctly you would have understood that. IMOSo continuing to misquote me and misrepresenting what i have said seems to be you big problem IMO
peace and love…………………………….gene
I believe you misunderstand her as I am of the opinion she was speaking in accordence to her own beliefs and therefore was speaking of the Satan being.Kerwin………..I know she thinks Satan is a “BEING” but in her and others mind that word BEING is a person while in my mind Satan is a Spirit (intellect) OF AN ADVERSARY , NOT A REAL “BEING”, but the Thoughts of the mind, as example PETER was a Satan By this adversarial Spirit (intellect) In him, not because He “His PERSON” was a Satan “Being” himslef . This holds true for the Pharisees they were not literally born Childern of a DEVIL Being and if they were it would be there Parents, not some MYSTICAL CREATURE going around having SEX with women and producing physical offspring called Pharisees . Nor when Jesus said he chose the twelve and one was a DEVIL or SATAN meant Judas was literately a DEVIL PERSON, But that an ADVERSARIAL SPIRIT (intellect) had taken over his thinking and He acted accordingly to that influencing (SPIRIT) , Just as Peter and anyone else can also. The concept of a Satan “BEING” like a Snake or some other Material form is false. The ADVERSARIAL SPIRIT is in all and when it is against GOD and His Word It must be MASTERED as Jesus did or Sin will be the outcome in our lives. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Only God can make something out of nothing. We can't invent a thought that is like a Satan or Adversary. that thought, and every thought comes either from God or Satan. He is real, He was a beautiful Angel, who wanted to sit on God.s Throne and be God himself.
Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Angels are real, so is that Angel lucifer, who became Satan at the point when he sinned.
Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
If it was only in Jesus mind. like you claim, how could He leave?
Luk 22:31 ¶ And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired [to have] you, that he may sift [you] as wheat:
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Here Jesus tells Simon that Satan wants Him. That could not be possible if he was only in someones mind…
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?
Here Peter is telling Ananias that Satan filled His hearth…..not that it was already in his hearth….There are more scriptures, but if you don;t understand these, you won't others either.
Peace Irene.
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