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Hi KW,
Neither the Pharisee nor the Tax collecter were reborn sons of God but were natural men under sin.1 John 5:18
We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.Hi KW,
Striving is of man.Zech4
6Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.ps46
10Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.11The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2009,03:57) Hi KW,
Neither the Pharisee nor the Tax collecter were reborn sons of God but were natural men under sin.1 John 5:18
We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
You are correct that neither was under the gospel but the important aspect of this teaching of Jesus' is the attitude and thus heart of the two. It relates to Jesus' sermon on the mount where he promised the poor in spirit that their would be the kingdom of heaven. Of the two the tax collector seem more of the one whom is poor in spirit.Psalms 51:17(KJV) reads:
Quote The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2009,04:39) Hi KW,
The Holy Spirit can make us holy.I agree but in pursuit of learning to walk by the Spirit at all times we may sin and if that happens then we should not hide it but rather confess our sin and repent being confident that God will cleanse us of all unrighteousness.
Hi KW,
Remember your own kids.When they started to walk were you demanding they do so or excited to see it?
Did you rebuke and punish them or lovingly encourage them when they fell?Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2009,05:44) Hi KW,
Remember your own kids.When they started to walk were you demanding they do so or excited to see it?
Did you rebuke and punish them or lovingly encourage them when they fell?2 Timothy 3:16-17(KJV) reads:
Quote All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2009,06:10) Hi KW,
So our own striving efforts are wasted energy.
Unless the Lord builds the house…
I agree!Psalms 127(KJV) reads:
Quote Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.
Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2009,08:16) Gene wrote: Quote First of all you can't produce (ONE) post where I said it OK to SIN. And Lying on a brother is also a SIN, that needs to be repented of. IMO.
Kerwin said……> I figure you are deceived and so deceiving others for many of your posts reek with the belief that “sin is OK“. You are here arguing that Jesus lied and thus one cannot be truly freed from slavery to sin since according to you scripture declares all humans must sin. I assure you if you are freed from sin you no longer sin because anyone who sins submits themselves to serving sin and if they do not repent and confess their sins God will bind them to sin once more. Our goal is therefore to be completely free of sin and it is only the power of God that we can and will reach that goal but in order to do so we must believe.
Kerwin….Show me (ONE) statement where i said it is (OK) to sin, since you think my Posts (REEK) with it, prove it instead of falsely accusing me, and Show me where i disagreed with what Jesus said , or said Jesus lied, The only lier here is you IN MY OPINION, Not me or Jesus. You talk of me being decieved, when in fact it is you who seems to be the one decieved , you DON'T even know what Iniquity is, the iniquity spoken of in Eze is speaking of when a person (TRUSTING) that He was Himself righteous. AS those who come to Chris Jesus and think they were by there (so called ) Works which were works of Iniquity.
I noticed you can't get around what was Quoted so you start a personal attack, which is your way of diverting the subject rather then addressing the scriptures that are posted.Personally I could care less of what you think of me, Your opinion of me means nothing because i don't stand of fall you by your false accusations. That all i ask is your (PROOF) which you seem to never be able to produce. why is that? I will glad go back over every word I said and every scripture I quoted to clarify what was said. And by the way iniquity has nothing to do with what you said. Go figure out what this means (THY SINS and THY INIQUITIES) Wouldn't it be redundant to mention both if they were the exact same thing? Common since should tell you that> Iniquity is a (TYPE) of SIN. Now tell us what (TYPE) it is.
then you might understand what Jesus was saying about the worker of INIQUITY>peace and love…………….gene
Gene wrote:
Quote I noticed you can't get around what was Quoted so you start a personal attack, which is your way of diverting the subject rather then addressing the scriptures that are posted.
You should read scripture. I follow Jesus’ example as Jesus often made personal attacks but he did not slander his opponents. There is a difference. The “personal attacks” I make are relevant to the discussion at hand since they question both your creditability and your motivation. I stuck fairly close to scripture in making them even using similar words. It is clear that from your doctrine that you are attempting to justify your own and others actions in continuing to sin despite the fact scripture declares there is no justification for wrongdoing. Jesus came to turn wrongdoers from there ways and so justify those these choose to believe they will stop sinning by walking according to the ways of the Holy Spirit. Those who reject such a teaching are by default rejecting it because they love doing evil. In such a way they are deceived and so deceive others.
Malachi 4:5-6(KJV) reads:
Quote Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Gene wrote:
Quote I noticed you can't get around what was Quoted
I have no idea what you are writing of since I did address every scripture you mentioned.
Gene wrote:
Quote Go figure out what this means (THY SINS and THY INIQUITIES) Wouldn't it be redundant to mention both if they were the exact same thing?
You repeat yourself in order to emphasize a point. I checked the Greek and the two appear to have some definitions in common though perhaps not all.
Gene wrote:
Quote Iniquity is a (TYPE) of SIN.
I never heard that definition before and it was not in the Greek Lexicon I checked at Studylight.org. Perhaps you are using another one.
Gene wrote:
Quote Now tell us what (TYPE) it is. then you might understand what Jesus was saying about the worker of INIQUITY>
I see you are attempting to address a point with a leading question but as I said I have no idea where you obtained your definition of “iniquity”. I did describe how the Pharisee transgressed the law of love your neighbor as yourself by not confessing his sins but rather being content with his own righteousness instead of seeking to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. That point is also addressed in other scriptures.
Here is what studylight.org’s Greek Lexicon states about “sin”.
Here and here is what studylight.org’s Greek Lexicon states about “iniquity”.
Kerwin……..Let stay with Iniquity for a while, I will tell you what i believe it is, using Jesus own words, (Not a Greek lexicon) , Those who come to Jesus and said, Lord in your name we have done all these (GOOD) Works , did Jesus say they were (NOT) good works (NO) because they were GOOD WORKS< So why did He say, depart from you (WORKERS of INIQUITY) Then? ,Why was what they did an iniquity?, It was because it was (THEIR WORKS) NOT the WORK of GOD, From this we can find the true meaning of the word Iniquity, it is a work that is thought to be a righteous work of GOD, when in fact it is not, It appears righteous because it is a good work on the part of the person doing it. An iniquity is a since of doing right when in fact it is not. As what was written in Ezekiel also, where the righteous (TRUSTING) in (their) righteousness and as a result they commit an INIQUITY. You will find non of this in a GREEK Lexicon. Only from scripture and GOD'S spirit can you perceive it. People who think they are doing right when in fact they are not are committing an iniquity. Why do you think when they came up to Jesus and said Good master , he said "why callest me Good , there is (ONLY ONE THAT IS GOOD) and that is GOD". Had He said He was HIMSELF a GOOD Person that would have been an iniquity, he full well knew that only GOD is truly GOOD.
gene
Kerwin……..you have not stuck close to the scriptures making your false clams as you would like us to think , but ignorer much of what i both Quoted and wrote and are still doing that. You assumptions and acquisitions are just that and nothing else. IMO
Gene wrote:
Quote you have not stuck close to the scriptures making your false clams as you would like us to think , but ignore much of what i both Quoted and wrote and are still doing that. You assumptions and acquisitions are just that and nothing else.
You should relax and have faith for God is just and does what is right. He also calls you and me to do all that is right. I am convinced I have done a fine job in presenting truth of God, though there is one thing I neglected when I addressed the situation with the Pharisee and the taxpayer. That is that the Pharisee being content with his own righteousness and not seeking to be holy as God is holy chose also to look down on the tax collector for the latter’s sinning ways even though the Pharisee himself still sinned. We know that Jesus who does has not and does not sin does not look down on even the wicked but is distressed and angered by their rebellious ways and we also know he hopes that all sinners change all their ways and come to God through him.
Gene wrote:
Quote An iniquity is the appearance of doing right when in fact it is not.
I edited what you said and hope I understood correctly and so edited it correctly. If I do not please let me know.
That is certainly a new definition and I am not sure how you obtained it from scripture. From what I understand all sins are from the heart and how they manifest themselves is not really, relatively speaking, important to God.
Matthew 15:16-20(KJV) reads:
Quote And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
I am not seeing how you are connecting a righteous appearing action that is really a sin to God promising and fulfilling His promise that those who believe His Son Jesus is King of everything in heaven and on earth will stop sinning. If you are saying that those pursuing the righteousness that comes from God through Jesus our Lord should be careful about the ways that appear right but lead to destruction in the end then I agree.
Kerewin……..What i am saying is there are those who do what is Good works as such , but is (NOT) the work of GOD. Again if you understood iniquity you could easily understand this. Remember Jesus never said their (WORKS WERE NOT GOOD WORKS), did he, but those (GOOD) works were misdirected, and those (GOOD) works were really not of GOD. Therefore they were (WORKS) of iniquity even tho they were (GOOD WORKS)> Because thy were thinking they were serving Jesus, when they were doing them instead of GOD. MANY fall into the category even now, Why do you think Jesus said (MANY) would come and say that, when he returns. Because they really do think they (ARE) doing GOD'S work. Through the (GOOD) they DO, in Jesus' name. IMO
peace and love………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ April 28 2009,03:23) Kerewin……..What i am saying is there are those who do what is Good works as such , but is (NOT) the work of GOD. Again if you understood iniquity you could easily understand this. Remember Jesus never said their (WORKS WERE NOT GOOD WORKS), did he, but those (GOOD) works were misdirected, and those (GOOD) works were really not of GOD. Therefore they were (WORKS) of iniquity even tho they were (GOOD WORKS)> Because thy were thinking they were serving Jesus, when they were doing them instead of GOD. MANY fall into the category even now, Why do you think Jesus said (MANY) would come and say that, when he returns. Because they really do think they (ARE) doing GOD'S work. Through the (GOOD) they DO, in Jesus' name. IMO peace and love………………………gene
Mark 10:17-27(KJV) reads:Quote And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
When this man confessed to his good works Jesus challenged him to perform one more good work and he refused even though that is what it would take to get through the narrow gate.
Kerwin……> so what you Point? I simply use Part of that verse to show that Jesus said why Call me GOOD , there is none good but ONE, that is GOD. The rest of the paragraph is irrelevant to my point. You dragging it in has nothing to do with what i was saying about iniquity. I was showing that even Jesus did not regard HIMSELF as GOOD, but GOD (ONLY) >
Relating that to the Eze 33:13…..> When I shall say to the (RIGHTEOUS), that He shall surely live; (IF) he (TRUST) to his (OWN) righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousness shall not be remembered, but for the iniquity that he has committed he shall die for it. What i was doing was showing How Jesus Never trusted in His own righteousness as the ones in Eze 33:13 and these who come to him when He returns and say Lord Lord look at all these (GOOD WORKS) we have done in YOUR NAME and He tells them to depart from HIM , you workers of Iniquity. They were trusting in there works as a form of Self righteousness I was tying these scriptures together. You are using other scripture to divert from subject matter. I will say it is cleaver , but quite divisive.
peace and love……………………gene
Gene wrote:
Quote GOD reckons us righteous by our Faith in HIM, as he did Abraham, not that We or Abraham (ARE) righteous but it is (RECKONED TO US> That is why it says the righteous live by FAITH. Gene,
Amen again bro! This is one of the few things on which you and I agree and it is the HEART of the gospel.thinker
G,
Faith in God is not enough.
Even demons believe.Believe also in me is what the Lord Jesus said.
His is the robe of righteousness we must cover our stink from the pigsty with.NIck……”Without (FAITH) it is impossible to please GOD, for those who come to Him (MUST) believe that He (IS) and is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him'. So equating Faith in GOD as demonic is not true and is itself evil. But scripture does say that they believe, and (FEAR) and TRIMBLE, like you say you do right? “Tell me this, does he that works miracles among you do it by obedience to the Law or by Hearing of FAITH”? Good question what your answer to that NICK?
love and peace………………….gene
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