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“Rev 12.9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old, who is called the devil and Satan….”
According to scripture the great dragon represents a beast that rules through carnal nature and not the Spirit of God.
devil means slanderer and Satan means Adversary Hebrew phonetic saw-tawn, Jesus calls Peter a saw-tawn because he has in mind the things of men.
Men are referred to as serpents for being liars deceivers
Men are referred to as beasts following their carnal nature
By one man sin entered the world
Jesus overcame the “old man” through denying his carnal nature and serving God. Jesus overcame the old serpent, but that serpent still lives in many men.
There are many examples of MEN and their powers having been exalted by God to then sin and be cast down, we even have scriptures that says men were exalted to heaven and cast down.
The same driving force that was in Cain and Peter and the lying prophets, making them act like beasts, was their carnal mind.
Babylon the great will fall, Babylon is ruled by adulterous sinful men following their carnal mind
The elites of this world are driven by their carnal mind, lusting for power and money, they ARE BEASTS they are DRAGONS following their own hearts and committing atrocities through their wicked imaginations.
I have used the entirety of the bible and hundreds of scriptures to define the old serpent the adversary.
The prophets in Jeremiah 23 were in God’s HOUSE and they sinned and BECAME false prophets, God cast them down. They were in FACT God’s MESSENGERS and then they reached the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Tell me how it makes sense that throughout 2 Peter 2 the passage is speaking of several men, but when it comes to speaking of messengers that sinned you feel it’s wise to assert that in this one verse it is referring to some other sort of being and not sticking to the rest of the passage that is referring to men? These messengers are identified with the other men being all referred to as irrational “natural” beasts, which other scriptures define that as MEN who follow their carnal mind. Their punishment is an example of other men’s punishment. The word for messenger in the bible is in FACT referred to in other texts as being humans.
The NT writers often gave references to the OT. 2 Peter 2 and Jeremiah 23 couldn’t fit more perfectly together!
Nick, who is the “evil one”? Give the scriptures that use “evil one” and the scriptures that show the evil ones identity?
Hi Jodi,
So if you translate angel instead as messenger you can declare that they are human messengers,
then rewrite scripture to suit your dogma?
Clever sleight of hand?
God does not show mercy to angels but does for humans. Heb
Hi Jodi,
Do you never doubt your rationalisations and justifications that you need for your dogmas?
Have you rejected angels, archangels sons of God, elders and demons in your bid to turn scripture to be all about men?
https://www.amazon.com/Language-Crystal-Complete-Solution-Civilizations/dp/094212118X
check out the cover Nick….
presently reading the book using the marcion method
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion_of_Sinope
1 They came to the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gerasenes. 2 When He got out of the boat, immediately a man from the tombs with an unclean spirit met Him, 3 and he had his dwelling among the tombs. And no * one was able to bind him anymore, even with a chain; 4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains, and the chains had been torn apart by him and the shackles broken in pieces, and no one was strong enough to subdue him. 5 Constantly, night and day, he was screaming among the tombs and in the mountains, and gashing himself with stones. 6 Seeing Jesus from a distance, he ran up and bowed down before Him; 7 and shouting with a loud voice, he said, “What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me!” 8 For He had been saying to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!” 9 And He was asking him, “What is your name?” And he said to Him, “My name is Legion; for we are many.” 10 And he began to implore Him earnestly not to send them out of the country. 11 Now there was a large herd of swine feeding nearby on the mountain. 12 The demons implored Him, saying, “Send us into the swine so that we may enter them.” 13 Jesus gave them permission. And coming out, the unclean spirits entered the swine; and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea, about two thousand of them; and they were drowned in the sea. 14 Their herdsmen ran away and reported it in the city and in the country. And the people came to see what it was that had happened. 15 They came to Jesus and observed the man who had been demon-possessed sitting down, clothed and in his right mind, the very man who had had the “legion “; and they became frightened.
Nick, you are basically asking me to repeat myself,
God says that He ALONE has the supernatural power to bring darkness and calamity onto men. He brings forth unclean spirits, makes the deaf, the mute, and the blind. We see what He can do from Deuteronomy and what he did to Saul and other men like Nebuchadnezzar. He says there IS NO OTHER. I will in fact believe the words of the LORD!! He ALONE has the supernatural powers to cause people to become lunatics. He also gives man the power to heal. Do we not see that these curses also carry over onto animals? Unclean spirits were removed from a man and placed in pigs and it made the pigs run off the cliff. I REFUSE to be an IDOLATER!
Matthew 6:13 (ESV) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
Matthew 6:13 (KJV) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Matthew 6:13 (YLT) `And mayest Thou not lead us to temptation, but deliver us from the evil, because Thine is the reign, and the power, and the glory — to the ages. Amen.
Some translations have it say “evil one” and others just say “evil”. Either translation fits with my argument
The evil one is clearly laid out to represent the OLD MAN.
James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
devil- diabolos- prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,
1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Our own desires draw us into temptation
Temptation gives birth to sin
Sin brings forth death
To be carnally minded is death
The devil-slanderer holds the power of death
1 Corinthians 3: 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
Romans 6: 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Hebrews 2: 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Genesis 4: 6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
I John 3:12 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
Matthew 15: 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Ephesians 2:15 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; COMBINE this with Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
Scripture clearly identifies the devil, the evil one! Could it not be more clear? To be carnally minded is death, to be carnally minded is enmity against God, Jesus abolished the enmity in his flesh, he broke the power of death the devil (slanderer), he crucified the OLD MAN.
Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin…. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ephesians 4: 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
The evil one is the same as the OLD MAN, and the OLD MAN is the man that serves his carnal mind.
Matthew 6: 13 (NIV) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. (OLD MAN)
Nick can you give an abundance of scriptures that connect together bringing clear definitions to support you view of the evil one?
If you are going to reply to me again it would be MUCH appreciated if you presented let’s say at least 10 passages that explain your position. I don’t even know what your position really is at this point.
Hi Jodi,
Indeed the children of God do need to pray daily for His protection and to ask not to be tempted.
As Job demonstrates God can allow Satan to tempt us, but none of us are capable of withstanding the attacks Satan used against Job. Serious storms, terrible accidents with loss of life and personal health stuff. Satan asked also to be able to test Peter. Fire does test the quality of our workmanship but it does not have to be hard testing.
Satan is like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour. The wolf has scattered the flock.
God Himself tests nobody so do not dare to lay blame at His door if you are wise.
Hi Jodi,
Yes there are demons or unclean spirits and they live in men and can be driven out by the power of God.
There is a kingdom of darkness, sin in the flesh that has been condemned, and they know it.
Jesus spoke of binding the strong man and left his brothers to continue the work.
It will be complete when Satan is cast into the lake of fire following the 1000 year reign and the final rebellion.
Hi Jodi,
Out of the mouth comes what the heart is full of.
Man is a vessel designed to house the Spirit of eternal life.
But he has been occupied territory since the time of Adam and Eve.
God has offered all of us a very good deal because of the death of His Son.
Repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ
for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Cleansing of the vessel, the promise of the Spirit.
But the vessel can be reoccupied unless care is taken.
We must be renewed in the mind and walk in the Holy Spirit.
Seek grace and feed on the word of God being changed in our ways.
God hopes that we will attain to becoming His sons and daughters
Where have I denied that saw-tawn doesn’t exist? Quite the opposite TRULY, I have DEFINED saw-tawn through direct scripture, something you have yet to do. To claim that I have denied the existence when in fact I have spent considerably time defining it on this thread, reduces you to nothing more than being a devil yourself. Nice work Nick!!
The adversary in the book of Job FOLLOWED God’s commands and brought Job into righteousness. The punishments and infliction brought unto Job are directly said to have come from God. God’s angels bring blessings and cursings through God’s approval, they roam the earth seeking for those that need instruction and refinement.
Hi Jodi,
Yes God allows testing and refinement of His children.
He has no involvement in the process.
We prefer His mercy.
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