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You say
”Jesus destroyed the old man, he destroyed the devil, the man that is carnally minded”
Really?
And when and where was this man destroyed?
Sounds like more foolish and desperate doctrinal justification to me.
14…that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
HIM that has the power of death is repeatedly shown to be the MAN who sins. A very common sin of man is lying, slandering, being deceitful, thus why we see the word devil being used in verse 14.
14…that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
NO guile was found in his mouth, Jesus overcame the devil, the body of sin that through it’s own imagination can bring forth deceit and whose destiny is death.
The old man represents the body of sin as clearly stated for us in the passage. Also clearly stated is that the old man died on the cross. Jesus died on the cross without sin, however he did bare our sins for us on that cross, purifying us from our sins if we follow Christ. Jesus shows us what God is capable of with His Spirit, that God can perfect a man, that a new man can be created. We are to walk in the spirit of the new man and not as the old. We are to not be a devil, a man full of deceit. We are not to be of the old man/old serpent.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Oh yes Nick it is absolutely foolish in your eyes for a person to unite clear scriptures together to form definitions.
Serpent-deceitful man
Dragon, old serpent, adversary (satan)
Adversary=deceitful man
carnal mind at enmity with God
having abolished in His flesh the enmity
He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity
through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil
sin working death
old man with his deeds
old man crucified
Jesus destroyed the power of death the devil
Jesus abolished the enmity, body of sin (carnal nature) that brings forth death
Jesus abolished/destroyed the old man/body of sin/devil (slanderer)/old serpent/satan (adversary)
Desperate doctrine is when you keep on insisting that the devil or satan represents something that you cannot find even one scripture that defines it as you say it means. You only have delusional interpretation. You are following tradition verses truth.
Just like the Old Man is used to represent the body of sin, so too is the devil and satan used to represent the body of sin. Jesus destroyed on the cross the OLD MAN and therefore the HIM that Jesus destroyed in another verse represents quite simply the OLD MAN, in this case they used SLANDERER (devil) however. Why? Because slander is a DEED of the OLD MAN.
Hi Jodi,
When there are many words transgression is unavoidable, but he who restrains his lips is wise.
Your many words comfort you in your concept of blaming God and evil men for the world’s problems.
Cutting out the middle man is your dogma.
It seems to find little support here.
Nick have you ever worked with people who are mentally ill? I have and I know all of the odd, crazy, absolutely horrible things that can come out of their mouths.
Daimonion
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. 21 Ye cannot* drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot* be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils.The devils being referred to hear are the false spirits controlled by false gods, like that of the false god Beelzebub. God says that we are not to fear false gods and their spirits, as they have NO power, they cannot walk or talk, nor do good or evil. The Greeks believed that daimonions were the spirits controlled by gods and they brought both blessings and cursings, that they could possess people and cause sickness and madness. But as we know God declares that He ALONE exists with powers to bless and curse, create darkness and bring calamity.22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. 23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. 25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them,Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore* they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.WOW so the Pharisees believed in the false god Beelzebub and the daimonions of false gods. Jesus knew their thoughts and said if they believed he was casting out demons by Beelzebub then they must then be also, and if the adversary they believe in casts out himself he is then divided against himself. He then asks them then how could the adversary’s kingdom stand? Jesus was proving to them that what they were believing made no sense.To pagans devils/daimonions represented as already mentioned the spirits controlled by false gods.The Pharisees obviously were under pagan influences.Daimonions are unclean spirits of which God casts on people and also heals people from. The man was said in the scripture above to have a devil for being deaf and dumb and Jesus healed him.Exodus 4:11 The LORD said to him, “Who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the LORD?Mark 9:25 When Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the impure spirit. “You deaf and mute spirit,” he said, “I command you, come out of him and never enter him again.”Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, 6 so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is no other. 7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.I DO NOT follow pagan beliefs or that of the Pharisees, I believe in the word of God and HIS POWER ALONE.I DON’T BLAME God for the worlds problems, I have said nothing of the sort EVER. You are full of slander!
I have clearly said that the world’s problems are from wicked men caused by their OWN imaginations, this is the enmity AGAINST GOD.
You cannot produce a scripture that defines your satan or devil so it is very sad to see that this is what you are left to resort to, it’s despicable and pathetic.
It’s not my many words, it is the MANY scriptures, God’s OWN words that I have, scriptures that you won’t even bother to address because you cannot as they don’t fit your doctrine. You ignore them.
Hi Ed,
Yes.
prophetically
Hi Nick,
Was President Obama was born in Hawaii prophetically ?
____________
God bless
Ed JHi Jodi,
I would not suggest that the teaching of Jesus was of pagan origin.
He was led by the Spirit and you should take care.
Blaming God is also rather unwise.
Hi Jodi,
Yes I have worked with the mentally ill.
And seen dramatic changes when the power of the name of Jesus sets them free from demons.
Have you not seen this?
Hi Jodi,
Yes God has always appealed to man to oppose the sin that lives in him.
But your harsh cursing god is not my God.
My God is love and merciful.
Hi Jodi,
Yes out of the mouth comes what the heart is full of.
lk 11
The eye is the lamp of the body. When the eye was s clear the whole body is full of light
but when it is bad your body also is full of darkness. Then watch that the light in you is not darkness.
…
When the unclean spirit goes out of a man it passes through waterless places seeking rest.and not finding any it says
”I will return to my house from which I came”
And when it comes, It finds it swept and put in order. Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself,
and they go in and live there, and the last state is f that man becomes worse than the first.
Hi Jodi,
You tell us the devil and Satan represent the body of sin.
Stop making stuff up if you want us to take you seriously.
Hi Jodi,
Rom 7
But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
I find then that the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.
For I joyfully concur with the law of age in the inner man.
But I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind
and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God,
but on the other with my flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8
Therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death,
For what the law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did
sending His own son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin.
He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirements of the law might be fulfilled in us
who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Sin in the flesh is the dominion of darkness.
Not of us but of evil living in man.
Hi Jodi,
You say the serpent represents the spirit of man.(?]
You say Paul teaches that the spirit of man is against the Spirit of God.[?)
You say the body of sin is the spirit of man.(?)
The spirit of man comes from the breath of God. The creation of God is very good.
Is this another made up story again blaming God?
Nick,
You said “You say the serpent represents the spirit of man.(?]”
I have ACTUALLY said,
“Serpent-deceitful man”
Men have been likened to serpents for being liars, slanderers, deceivers and they do so from their own imaginations, out of their own hearts, from their carnal nature, that is what I have said repeatedly!
And I gave this scripture as an example, Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Nick you said, “You say Paul teaches that the spirit of man is against the Spirit of God.[?)”
What I ACTUALLY said,
I quoted scripture , The CARNAL MIND is at ENMITY AGAINST God
Nick you said, “You say the body of sin is the spirit of man.(?)”
What I ACTUALLY said,
“The old man represents the body of sin as clearly stated for us in the passage. Also clearly stated is that the old man died on the cross. Jesus died on the cross without sin, however he did bare our sins for us on that cross, purifying us from our sins if we follow Christ. Jesus shows us what God is capable of with His Spirit, that God can perfect a man, that a new man can be created. We are to walk in the spirit of the new man and not as the old. We are to not be a devil, a man full of deceit. We are not to be of the old man/old serpent.
I also gave scripture,
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh
Nick my words are right on this forum, why don’t you ACTUALLY quote what I have actually said?
I will add,
1 Corinthians 2: 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth*; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither* can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
Psalms 51: 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psalms 77: 3 I remembered God, and was troubled: I complained, and my spirit was overwhelmed. Selah.
Psalms 106:33 Because they provoked his spirit, so that he spake unadvisedly with his lips.
Proverbs 14: 29 He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly.
Proverbs 16: 18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 16:19 Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.
Proverbs 20: 27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.
Proverbs 29: 23 A man’s pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.
Ecclesiastes 1: 14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit….17 And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.
Ecclesiastes 7:8 Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof: and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit.
The mindset and feelings within a man identifies the human spirit. The spirit can change, it can be cold, jealous, full of hate, envy, be vein, full of deceit, it can be vexed, or it can be renewed, have joy, feel love, be humble, be patient. Without God’s Spirit guiding our spirit we are doomed.
Galatians 5: 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
When the spirit in man follows the desires of his flesh he is moved to sin.
When the spirit in man denies the flesh and follows the Spirit of God he reaps the fruit of God’s Spirit.
Hi Jodi,
You probably forgot or changed your mind but in your first post in this thread you said
THE SERPENT REPRESENTS THE SPIRIT OF MAN, the spirit that follows his carnal nature.
Do you not agree with this anymore?
Neither do I – just more intellectual hogwash.
Hi Jodi,
You said
“He (Paul) speaks of the spirit of man against the Spirit of God”
Perhaps I misunderstood you?
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