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Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 28 2009,15:41) And circumcism, and post natalism has what to do with the Sabbath? Those two items came from the Ordinances written by Moses, the Sabbath was written by Gods own hand. Seems to be a big difference.
Circumcism and post natelism were not perpetual in duration either.
So you believe it is OK to disobey God if what he ordered is not part of the Ten Commandments?Deuteronomy 4:12-14(NIV) reads:
Quote Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. 13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets. 14 And the LORD directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.
and Moses goes on to say.
Deuteronomy 4:39-40(NIV) reads:
Quote Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other. Keep his decrees and commands, which I am giving you today, so that it may go well with you and your children after you and that you may live long in the land the LORD your God gives you for all time.
Here is an explanation why God only limited himself to speaking the Ten Commandment and not the whole Law he gave to Mosses.
Deuteronomy 5:22-33(NIV) reads:
Quote These are the commandments the LORD proclaimed in a loud voice to your whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire, the cloud and the deep darkness; and he added nothing more. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me.
When you heard the voice out of the darkness, while the mountain was ablaze with fire, all the leading men of your tribes and your elders came to me. And you said, “The LORD our God has shown us his glory and his majesty, and we have heard his voice from the fire. Today we have seen that a man can live even if God speaks with him. But now, why should we die? This great fire will consume us, and we will die if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any longer. For what mortal man has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? Go near and listen to all that the LORD our God says. Then tell us whatever the LORD our God tells you. We will listen and obey.”
The LORD heard you when you spoke to me and the LORD said to me, “I have heard what this people said to you. Everything they said was good. Oh, that their hearts would be inclined to fear me and keep all my commands always, so that it might go well with them and their children forever!
“Go, tell them to return to their tents. But you stay here with me so that I may give you all the commands, decrees and laws you are to teach them to follow in the land I am giving them to possess.”
So be careful to do what the LORD your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left. Walk in all the way that the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2009,02:59) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 28 2009,15:41) And circumcism, and post natalism has what to do with the Sabbath? Those two items came from the Ordinances written by Moses, the Sabbath was written by Gods own hand. Seems to be a big difference.
Circumcism and post natelism were not perpetual in duration either.
So you believe it is OK to disobey God if what he ordered is not part of the Ten Commandments?Deuteronomy 4:12-14(NIV) reads:
Quote Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. 13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets. 14 And the LORD directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.
and Moses goes on to say.
Deuteronomy 4:39-40(NIV) reads:
Quote Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other. Keep his decrees and commands, which I am giving you today, so that it may go well with you and your children after you and that you may live long in the land the LORD your God gives you for all time.
Here is an explanation why God only limited himself to speaking the Ten Commandment and not the whole Law he gave to Mosses.
Deuteronomy 5:22-33(NIV) reads:
Quote These are the commandments the LORD proclaimed in a loud voice to your whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire, the cloud and the deep darkness; and he added nothing more. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me.
When you heard the voice out of the darkness, while the mountain was ablaze with fire, all the leading men of your tribes and your elders came to me. And you said, “The LORD our God has shown us his glory and his majesty, and we have heard his voice from the fire. Today we have seen that a man can live even if God speaks with him. But now, why should we die? This great fire will consume us, and we will die if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any longer. For what mortal man has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? Go near and listen to all that the LORD our God says. Then tell us whatever the LORD our God tells you. We will listen and obey.”
The LORD heard you when you spoke to me and the LORD said to me, “I have heard what this people said to you. Everything they said was good. Oh, that their hearts would be inclined to fear me and keep all my commands always, so that it might go well with them and their children forever!
“Go, tell them to return to their tents. But you stay here with me so that I may give you all the commands, decrees and laws you are to teach them to follow in the land I am giving them to possess.”
So be careful to do what the LORD your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left. Walk in all the way that the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.
I keep the Law, I only disregard the Law of Sacrifice.Hi K,
The sabbath is divine wisdom and we will see it shown when the Lord of the Sabbath returns.
Meantime we do not pass judgement on anyone about their observance of it.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 29 2009,03:55) Hi K,
The sabbath is divine wisdom and we will see it shown when the Lord of the Sabbath returns.
Meantime we do not pass judgment on anyone about their observance of it.
Could you please elaborate a little more so I understand what you mean as any command of God is divine wisdom.Hi KW,
Quite so.
But it is not a command for those under the new Law of the Spirit.
Jesus will reveal the true meaning and application in the millenium which is also a sabbath[Heb4]To All………..Without keeping the spiritual meaning of the sabbath, You will (not) inter into the kingdom of GOD, The sabbath is a sign or picture of (HOW) the salvation process works, and never will be done away with. WE must put our (WILLS) to rest and let the (WILL) of GOD rule in our lives, The sign of the sabbath, pictures this salvation process. IMO
gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 29 2009,12:51) To All………..Without keeping the spiritual meaning of the sabbath, You will (not) inter into the kingdom of GOD, The sabbath is a sign or picture of (HOW) the salvation process works, and never will be done away with. WE must put our (WILLS) to rest and let the (WILL) of GOD rule in our lives, The sign of the sabbath, pictures this salvation process. IMO gene
Gene The Sabbath was a sign between the children of Israel and God. It has nothing to do with our Salvation.
Our Salvation is a gift from God.Exodus 31:16 “Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath to observe the Sabbath throughout their generation as a perpetual covenant.
verse 17 “It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever;…….
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved, through faith and that not of yourselves, it is a gift from God.
verse 9 not of works, lest you boast.
verse 10 For we are a workmanship created by Christ Jesus for good works, which God has prepared beforehand that we
should walk in them.Peace and Love Irene
hi con
I was expresing my self in regards to religion ,the thruth of God is NOT religion,the man who try to interpose between God words and man whithout being invited by God are obvious proselites makers and money hunger people,and like to keep there members in there truth not God truth ,because follow Christ you will living in the freedom of Christ. why going to a swich board when you have a direct line?Irene…….the word perpetual, means for ever. Never to cease. “Their remains a Keeping of the Sabbath unto the People of GOD.
Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear lest, a promise being left us entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:3…> For we which have believed (DO) enter into (REST), as he said As i have Sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4…> For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on the wise, and God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5..> and in this place again If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelieved.
Heb 4:9…> There remains therefore a rest to the people of GOD.
Heb 4:10…..> For he that is entered into (HIS) Rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from HIS.
This is what Sabbath really means and it has never been done away with now or in the future.
The Sign of the Sabbath is to enter into His rest by ceasing from our works. This is a permanent sabbath, not one day a week.
The Sabbath is the sign of the salvation process we are saved by ceasing from our works and letting GOD work through Us. ONE WILL in all and through ALL> The sabbath is a picture of this process. IMO
peace and love to you and Georg Irene…………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 29 2009,07:03) Hi KW,
Quite so.
But it is not a command for those under the new Law of the Spirit.
Jesus will reveal the true meaning and application in the millenium which is also a sabbath[Heb4]
The way I understand the Sabbath command in the Law of Mosses is that it applied only to the 12 tribes of Israel unless a Gentile was in their house hold. Even if the Gentile was there temporarily they were expected also to rest on the Sabbath.That makes sense under the New Covenant as well since the children of Israel have an implied vow to adhere to the Law of Mosses and a Christian Gentile should respect that vow out of love.
Some have a different view than me and believe the Sabbath applies to all the people of God. This is a view point that I am at odds with since I believe it tries to force a Gentile to be a Jew.
I also have a problem with those that believe the Sabbath no longer applies to anyone as that viewpoint attempts to force Jews to be Gentiles.
Hi KW,
Though we are grafted onto the tree of Israel we have no more become Jews than Jews have become gentiles.
True Israel is a new entity uniting both in Christ.Quote (942767 @ Oct. 27 2009,17:07) DGER Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 28 2009,04:23) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 28 2009,04:09) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 27 2009,08:56) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 28 2009,03:52) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 27 2009,08:17) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 27 2009,23:20) Also basically what Sabbath also refers to gates is also like, if you observe Sabbath you wont go to a restaruant and have someone cook for you or serve you because in doing so your being there makes them work. Or you get gas on another day, because you make others work for you (register person, attendant, etc.). Even if the other person is an athiest, you as a Sabbath keeper, you ensure you don't make others work by your hand.
You're adding to the word of God regarding the sabbath. It referred only to God's covenantal people and extended only to their servants, beasts of burden and those “within YOUR gates.”So I may eat at a restaurant because I am not putting my servants to work or my cattle or anyone within my “gates” (house).
Your adding your own commandments to the law like the pharisees did. If you say that I can't travel to a restaurant then you are adding again. And your requirement that gentiles must keep the sabbath is also an addition for they were never under the sabbath or anything of Moses. They were under the law of the revelation of God in nature.
You become more a pharisee with every post.
thinker
You missed the point TT as a Sabbath keeper, I would not go to a resturaunt and have you cook for me, because by your cooking for me makes you my servant. Whether you observe it or not is not the issue, it is all about me and my rest. This does not add or take from it.Your just looking for argument.
I make no man my servant upon my Sabbath.
So Jesus did not keep the Sabbath when he performed miracles on that day, because he was made a serveant to the sick.So where do you keep your understanding constitutionalist?
In the OT laws that you were never under, or in the new covenant in which all men are under.
Old covenants were for Jews only, gentile has only received Jesus' Blood as our promise to salvation.
And in “HIM” are all the laws fufilled.
Amen
You missed Jesus whole message, Jesus kept the Sabbath, but he kept it in the light it was to be kept, he did good on the sabbath, he did not do carpenter work on the sabbath, but he did heal the sick. Therin lies the difference.A farmer may not toil in the field but he can rescue his ox if it falls in a pit.
You may not pick crops for market but you can take enough to fill your belly.
You just don't get.
The pharasees would let a man die, because they lived by the letter and not the spirit of it.
Jesus would let a man live because he lived by the spirit of it and not the letter.
Someday you will see, instead of just tossing out your hate.
First off, I don't hate anyone or anything but sin…If I am ignorant to sin then that is my folly, so use your intellect to open my eyes if they are closed.Second off, I agree completely with what you say, but who is man to understand what is good and evil?
You would not go to a restaurant to eat when you are hungry, because you are making the man work.
Although in this day and age, that man would work whether you're there or not…So regardless he's not keeping the sabbath.
And as for you, you are not working (therefore keeping the sabbath). So I guess the proper thing to do would be to make food for yourself…and not go anywhere for you are “making someone cook for you” which I guess to you is not keeping the sabbath.
Well what about your wife, who's stay at home job is to cook and clean…On the sabbath do the roles reverse and you cook instead of her? Cause if not you wouldn't be keeping the sabbath.
What about hospitals that are open…They are a business and yet they do good work and save lives…
Tho not by christian methods, they do save lives nonetheless…
Are they violating the sabbath?
The reason God made a new covenant is because the old ones were flawed.
We were never meant to live by the law, we were meant to be condemned by it.
And on the flip side, we are meant to live by christ.
A new covenant was made purposeful for our times. If not for our times, then it would of been established as the first covenant.
Keeping the sabbath is too particular for such an economy driven world, and in such a world…for some people…a day of work is required to feed your family….
[/B]Now according to Jesus if you were in a position to where you needed more money than usual, to keep food on the table for your family…would you work?
Cuz I sure as hell don't have cows and goats to do feed them from the fruits of my imaginary farm.
Hi RokkaMan:As you say, there are many things to take into consideration relative to observing the Sabbath in the modern day world.
Thing like the mode of travel, and the hospitals that you mentioned are examples. Hospitals have restruarants and these by necessity have to be open. Restruarants along the interstates and those in the airports need to be open as well.
As a born again Christian, if I had a business, I would give my employees the day off so that they could rest and go to church if they wanted to do this.
Because of all of these considerations, I believe that it is the principle of the Sabbath that matters. It is a day of rest. Certainly, there should not be any argument that this is a good thing. All of God's principles that He gives us for living are meant for our good.
It should not be meant to be a drudgery saying I can't do this or I can't do that because it is the Sabbath, but if something can be put off until another day because it is the Sabbath, then it would seem to me that God would know the motives and the intent of the heart.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Funny, it seems the only people who find it a “DRUDGERY” are those who despise it like you.Ask any who keep the Sabbath and they will tell you it is a “BLESSING” and a “JOY”.
So where is the problem?
Seems it is self apparent.
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 29 2009,15:27) Irene…….the word perpetual, means for ever. Never to cease. “Their remains a Keeping of the Sabbath unto the People of GOD. Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear lest, a promise being left us entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:3…> For we which have believed (DO) enter into (REST), as he said As i have Sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4…> For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on the wise, and God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5..> and in this place again If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelieved.
Heb 4:9…> There remains therefore a rest to the people of GOD.
Heb 4:10…..> For he that is entered into (HIS) Rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from HIS.
This is what Sabbath really means and it has never been done away with now or in the future.
The Sign of the Sabbath is to enter into His rest by ceasing from our works. This is a permanent sabbath, not one day a week.
The Sabbath is the sign of the salvation process we are saved by ceasing from our works and letting GOD work through Us. ONE WILL in all and through ALL> The sabbath is a picture of this process. IMO
peace and love to you and Georg Irene…………..gene
First of all, the Sabbath was never for us, So why do you think in Hebrew it would be talking about the Sabbath. If that would be the case, then Jesus or God would have said so. The rest that it is talking about is the rest in Jesus. In Him we will find rest. Verse 1 says so much :”Therfore since a promise remains of entering His rest, HIS REST is he key here. If God woukld have meant the Sabbath He would have said so. In
Math, 11:28 : Come to Me all you labor and heavy laden and I will give you rest..
Verse 29″Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in Heart and you will find rest for your souls.
verse 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.To me it simple, it does not make sene if in the Old Testament it said, that it was a sign between God d Israel, and then in the New Testament it is for us too.
The rest for the people of God is the rest that is in Christ Jesus our Savior and Lord of Lords and King of Kings. You will find rest in Him, those that a burden, and I will give you rest for your souls.That is were we are in Chrst Jesus, who makes us whole, and free. And it is true, that in Him we will find rest. We have no worries what will happen to us. It is His promise when God has given us to Christ, that He will not loose us. On that my Friend I count on.
Peace and Love IreneTo all,
God led me to read Colossians 2 today and I came across this pass that is relevant to the discussion at hand. I would like to hear any comments on it. Thank you.
Colossians 2:13-17(NIV) reads:
Quote When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 29 2009,17:43) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 27 2009,17:07) DGER Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 28 2009,04:23) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 28 2009,04:09) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 27 2009,08:56) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 28 2009,03:52) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 27 2009,08:17) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 27 2009,23:20) Also basically what Sabbath also refers to gates is also like, if you observe Sabbath you wont go to a restaruant and have someone cook for you or serve you because in doing so your being there makes them work. Or you get gas on another day, because you make others work for you (register person, attendant, etc.). Even if the other person is an athiest, you as a Sabbath keeper, you ensure you don't make others work by your hand.
You're adding to the word of God regarding the sabbath. It referred only to God's covenantal people and extended only to their servants, beasts of burden and those “within YOUR gates.”So I may eat at a restaurant because I am not putting my servants to work or my cattle or anyone within my “gates” (house).
Your adding your own commandments to the law like the pharisees did. If you say that I can't travel to a restaurant then you are adding again. And your requirement that gentiles must keep the sabbath is also an addition for they were never under the sabbath or anything of Moses. They were under the law of the revelation of God in nature.
You become more a pharisee with every post.
thinker
You missed the point TT as a Sabbath keeper, I would not go to a resturaunt and have you cook for me, because by your cooking for me makes you my servant. Whether you observe it or not is not the issue, it is all about me and my rest. This does not add or take from it.Your just looking for argument.
I make no man my servant upon my Sabbath.
So Jesus did not keep the Sabbath when he performed miracles on that day, because he was made a serveant to the sick.So where do you keep your understanding constitutionalist?
In the OT laws that you were never under, or in the new covenant in which all men are under.
Old covenants were for Jews only, gentile has only received Jesus' Blood as our promise to salvation.
And in “HIM” are all the laws fufilled.
Amen
You missed Jesus whole message, Jesus kept the Sabbath, but he kept it in the light it was to be kept, he did good on the sabbath, he did not do carpenter work on the sabbath, but he did heal the sick. Therin lies the difference.A farmer may not toil in the field but he can rescue his ox if it falls in a pit.
You may not pick crops for market but you can take enough to fill your belly.
You just don't get.
The pharasees would let a man die, because they lived by the letter and not the spirit of it.
Jesus would let a man live because he lived by the spirit of it and not the letter.
Someday you will see, instead of just tossing out your hate.
First off, I don't hate anyone or anything but sin…If I am ignorant to sin then that is my folly, so use your intellect to open my eyes if they are closed.Second off, I agree completely with what you say, but who is man to understand what is good and evil?
You would not go to a restaurant to eat when you are hungry, because you are making the man work.
Although in this day and age, that man would work whether you're there or not…So regardless he's not keeping the sabbath.
And as for you, you are not working (therefore keeping the sabbath). So I guess the proper thing to do would be to make food for yourself…and not go anywhere for you are “making someone cook for you” which I guess to you is not keeping the sabbath.
Well what about your wife, who's stay at home job is to cook and clean…On the sabbath do the roles reverse and you cook instead of her? Cause if not you wouldn't be keeping the sabbath.
What about hospitals that are open…They are a business and yet they do good work and save lives…
Tho not by christian methods, they do save lives nonetheless…
Are they violating the sabbath?
The reason God made a new covenant is because the old ones were flawed.
We were never meant to live by the law, we were meant to be condemned by it.
And on the flip side, we are meant to live by christ.
A new covenant was made purposeful for our times. If not for our times, then it would of been established as the first covenant.
Keeping the sabbath is too particular for such an economy driven world, and in such a world…for some people…a day of work is required to feed your family….
[/B]Now according to Jesus if you were in a position to where you needed more money than usual, to keep food on the table for your family…would you work?
Cuz I sure as hell don't have cows and goats to do feed them from the fruits of my imaginary farm.
Hi RokkaMan:As you say, there are many things to take into consideration relative to observing the Sabbath in the modern day world.
Thing like the mode of travel, and the hospitals that you mentioned are examples. Hospitals have restruarants and these by necessity have to be open. Restruarants along the interstates and those in the airports need to be open as well.
As a born again Christian, if I had a business, I would give my employees the day off so that they could rest and go to church if they wanted to do this.
Because of all of these considerations, I believe that it is the principle of the Sabbath that matters. It is a day of rest. Certainly, there should not be any argument that this is a good thing. All of God's principles that He gives us for living are meant for our good.
It should not be meant to be a drudgery saying I can't do this or I can't do that because it is the Sabbath, but if something can be put off until another day because it is the Sabbath, then it would seem to me that God would know the motives and the intent of the heart.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Funny, it seems the only people who find it a “DRUDGERY” are those
who despise it like you.Ask any who keep the Sabbath and they will tell you it is a “BLESSING” and a “JOY”.
So where is the problem?
Seems it is self apparent.
Hi Con:I keep the Sabbath, but I believe that it is the principle that matters. And whatever I do, I do out of love for God and for humanity.
I don't keep the Sabbath like a Pharisee.
And since Jesus has shown me the he is the Lord of the Sabbath also, meaning he is the judge of who violates not only this commandments, but all of the commandments that have come from God through him, and since I pray to God on a daily baisis asking him to correct me if I am teaching anything that is not his Word or doing anything that is not his will, I am at peace with the way I keep the Sabbath.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Oct. 31 2009,09:13) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 29 2009,17:43) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 27 2009,17:07) DGER Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 28 2009,04:23) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 28 2009,04:09) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 27 2009,08:56) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 28 2009,03:52) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 27 2009,08:17) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 27 2009,23:20) Also basically what Sabbath also refers to gates is also like, if you observe Sabbath you wont go to a restaruant and have someone cook for you or serve you because in doing so your being there makes them work. Or you get gas on another day, because you make others work for you (register person, attendant, etc.). Even if the other person is an athiest, you as a Sabbath keeper, you ensure you don't make others work by your hand.
You're adding to the word of God regarding the sabbath. It referred only to God's covenantal people and extended only to their servants, beasts of burden and those “within YOUR gates.”So I may eat at a restaurant because I am not putting my servants to work or my cattle or anyone within my “gates” (house).
Your adding your own commandments to the law like the pharisees did. If you say that I can't travel to a restaurant then you are adding again. And your requirement that gentiles must keep the sabbath is also an addition for they were never under the sabbath or anything of Moses. They were under the law of the revelation of God in nature.
You become more a pharisee with every post.
thinker
You missed the point TT as a Sabbath keeper, I would not go to a resturaunt and have you cook for me, because by your cooking for me makes you my servant. Whether you observe it or not is not the issue, it is all about me and my rest. This does not add or take from it.Your just looking for argument.
I make no man my servant upon my Sabbath.
So Jesus did not keep the Sabbath when he performed miracles on that day, because he was made a serveant to the sick.So where do you keep your understanding constitutionalist?
In the OT laws that you were never under, or in the new covenant in which all men are under.
Old covenants were for Jews only, gentile has only received Jesus' Blood as our promise to salvation.
And in “HIM” are all the laws fufilled.
Amen
You missed Jesus whole message, Jesus kept the Sabbath, but he kept it in the light it was to be kept, he did good on the sabbath, he did not do carpenter work on the sabbath, but he did heal the sick. Therin lies the difference.A farmer may not toil in the field but he can rescue his ox if it falls in a pit.
You may not pick crops for market but you can take enough to fill your belly.
You just don't get.
The pharasees would let a man die, because they lived by the letter and not the spirit of it.
Jesus would let a man live because he lived by the spirit of it and not the letter.
Someday you will see, instead of just tossing out your hate.
First off, I don't hate anyone or anything but sin…If I am ignorant to sin then that is my folly, so use your intellect to open my eyes if they are closed.Second off, I agree completely with what you say, but who is man to understand what is good and evil?
You would not go to a restaurant to eat when you are hungry, because you are making the man work.
Although in this day and age, that man would work whether you're there or not…So regardless he's not keeping the sabbath.
And as for you, you are not working (therefore keeping the sabbath). So I guess the proper thing to do would be to make food for yourself…and not go anywhere for you are “making someone cook for you” which I guess to you is not keeping the sabbath.
Well what about your wife, who's stay at home job is to cook and clean…On the sabbath do the roles reverse and you cook instead of her? Cause if not you wouldn't be keeping the sabbath.
What about hospitals that are open…They are a business and yet they do good work and save lives…
Tho not by christian methods, they do save lives nonetheless…
Are they violating the sabbath?
The reason God made a new covenant is because the old ones were flawed.
We were never meant to live by the law, we were meant to be condemned by it.
And on the flip side, we are meant to live by christ.
A new covenant was made purposeful for our times. If not for our times, then it would of been established as the first covenant.
Keeping the sabbath is too particular for such an economy driven world, and in such a world…for some people…a day of work is required to feed your family….
[/B]Now according to Jesus if you were in a position to where you needed more money than usual, to keep food on the table for your family…would you work?
Cuz I sure as hell don't have cows and goats to do feed them from the fruits of my imaginary farm.
Hi RokkaMan:As you say, there are many things to take into consideration relative to observing the Sabbath in the modern day world.
Thing like the mode of travel, and the hospitals that you mentioned are examples. Hospitals have restruarants and these by necessity have to be open. Restruarants along the interstates and those in the airports need to be open as well.
As a born again Christian, if I had a business, I would give my employees the day off so that they could rest and go to church if they wanted to do this.
Because of all of these considerations, I believe that it is the principle of the Sabbath that matters. It is a day of rest. Certainly, there should not be any argument that this is a good thing. All of God's principles that He gives us for living are meant for our good.
It should not be meant to be a drudgery saying I can't do this or I can't do that because it is the Sabbath, but if something can be put off until another day because it is the Sabbath, then it would seem
to me that God would know the motives and the intent of the heart.Love in Christ,
Marty
Funny, it seems the only people who find it a “DRUDGERY” are those who despise it like you.Ask any who keep the Sabbath and they will tell you it is a “BLESSING” and a “JOY”.
So where is the problem?
Seems it is self apparent.
Hi Con:I keep the Sabbath, but I believe that it is the principle that matters. And whatever I do, I do out of love for God and for humanity.
I don't keep the Sabbath like a Pharisee.
And since Jesus has shown me the he is the Lord of the Sabbath also, meaning he is the judge of who violates not only this commandments, but all of the commandments that have come from God through him, and since I pray to God on a daily baisis asking him to correct me if I am teaching anything that is not his Word or doing anything that is not his will, I am at peace with the way I keep the Sabbath.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty You need to read what exactly it says in Exodus 31:16-17 The Sabbath is a sign between Me and the children of Israel.
and Exodus 34:27-28
That is a covenant that God made with the children of Israel.We are under a new covenant in His Blood,
Luke 22:19-20Jesus gives us the Law that we are under in
Math. 22:36-40
He also magnified aw on the Sermon on the Mount.
He did not once mentioned the Sabbath. If we would be under that Law He would have told us so IMO.I just don't understand that some here think that they can combine grace with the Old Covenant. Galatians 5 tells us this
Galatians 5:4 You have been estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by Law, you have fallen from grace.Ephesians 2:8
“For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift from God.verse 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
verse 10 For w are His workmanship in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that w should walk in them.
I ask you and others why you want to do like the Jewish people are doing and have to keep the whole Law.
Galatians 5:3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that He is a debtor to keep the whole law.
It is your choice. If you want to do all the things that the Jewish people are doing, belief me you will get tired real soon. Two pairs of everything for the Passover, you can't drive a car, you can't turn on the T.V., you can't listen to the Radio. on and on it goes. And you can't go out and eat at Mc. Donalds or Frishes, or Olive Garden on the Sabbath day. And then their is the atonement for your sins. Oh no you have been fallen from grace. Christ is not with you. They don't believe that Christ came at all yet.
I know some Jewish Folks, no thank you, I will be under grace anytime.
Peace and Love IreneQuote It is your choice. If you want to do all the things that the Jewish people are doing, belief me you will get tired real soon. Two pairs of everything for the Passover, you can't drive a car, you can't turn on the T.V., you can't listen to the Radio. on and on it goes. And you can't go out and eat at Mc. Donalds or Frishes, or Olive Garden on the Sabbath day. And then their is the atonement for your sins. Oh no you have been fallen from grace. Christ is not with you. They don't believe that Christ came at all yet. see irene, you are sterotyping a individual, if one says they partake in sabbath, you mind goes to what you have been taught, without fully reading scriptures regarding the sabbath, this is the lesson Christ taught regarding the Pharisees, that they added to the Sabbath, they made it so burdensome no one wanted to keep it.
this is not required of us, really take the time to read scriptures regarding the sabbath, you will find it is not at all what you think it to be.
have you ever worked as a server in a resturant? women, let me tell you, not seeing another person come through the door is one blessing i would have like to receive many times over.
and irene, grace is not an umbrella.
To All…….Why can't you people understand the Spiritual aspects of the SABBATH, why is it all about the Physical, it is the same with circumcision , there still is circumcision of the Heart , GOD used a Physical thing to show a spiritual principle, so also it is with the Sabbath day, it is given to show a spiritual principle, when are we going to grow up enough to see those things. That spiritual principle is the ceasing from the Our work and letting GOD work in Us , putting our wills to death and following GOD'S WILL. The sabbath is Spiritual as well as all of GOD ten commandments are , they are eternal and are of the Spirit of GOD> Jesus never done away with any of GOD Commandments and said we must keep them Just like He did. IMO
gene
Quote (georg @ Oct. 31 2009,10:07) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 31 2009,09:13) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 29 2009,17:43) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 27 2009,17:07) DGER Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 28 2009,04:23) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 28 2009,04:09) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 27 2009,08:56) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 28 2009,03:52) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 27 2009,08:17) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 27 2009,23:20) Also basically what Sabbath also refers to gates is also like, if you observe Sabbath you wont go to a restaruant and have someone cook for you or serve you because in doing so your being there makes them work. Or you get gas on another day, because you make others work for you (register person, attendant, etc.). Even if the other person is an athiest, you as a Sabbath keeper, you ensure you don't make others work by your hand.
You're adding to the word of God regarding the sabbath. It referred only to God's covenantal people and extended only to their servants, beasts of burden and those “within YOUR gates.”So I may eat at a restaurant because I am not putting my servants to work or my cattle or anyone within my “gates” (house).
Your adding your own commandments to the law like the pharisees did. If you say that I can't travel to a restaurant then you are adding again. And your requirement that gentiles must keep the sabbath is also an addition for they were never under the sabbath or anything of Moses. They were under the law of the revelation of God in nature.
You become more a pharisee with every post.
thinker
You missed the point TT as a Sabbath keeper, I would not go to a resturaunt and have you cook for me, because by your cooking for me makes you my servant. Whether you observe it or not is not the issue, it is all about me and my rest. This does not add or take from it.Your just looking for argument.
I make no man my servant upon my Sabbath.
So Jesus did not keep the Sabbath when he performed miracles on that day, because he was made a serveant to the sick.So where do you keep your understanding constitutionalist?
In the OT laws that you were never under, or in the new covenant in which all men are under.
Old covenants were for Jews only, gentile has only received Jesus' Blood as our promise to salvation.
And in “HIM” are all the laws fufilled.
Amen
You missed Jesus whole message, Jesus kept the Sabbath, but he kept it in the light it was to be kept, he did good on the sabbath, he did not do carpenter work on the sabbath, but he did heal the sick. Therin lies the difference.A farmer may not toil in the field but he can rescue his ox if it falls in a pit.
You may not pick crops for market but you can take enough to fill your belly.
You just don't get.
The pharasees would let a man die, because they lived by the letter and not the spirit of it.
Jesus would let a man live because he lived by the spirit of it and not the letter.
Someday you will see, instead of just tossing out your hate.
First off, I don't hate anyone or anything but sin…If I am ignorant to sin then that is my folly, so use your intellect to open my eyes if they are closed.Second off, I agree completely with what you say, but who is man to understand what is good and evil?
You would not go to a restaurant to eat when you are hungry, because you are making the man work.
Although in this day and age, that man would work whether you're there or not…So regardless he's not keeping the sabbath.
And as for you, you are not working (therefore keeping the sabbath). So I guess the proper thing to do would be to make food for yourself…and not go anywhere for you are “making someone cook for you” which I guess to you is not keeping the sabbath.
Well what about your wife, who's stay at home job is to cook and clean…On the sabbath do the roles reverse and you cook instead of her? Cause if not you wouldn't be keeping the sabbath.
What about hospitals that are open…They are a business and yet they do good work and save lives…
Tho not by christian methods, they do save lives nonetheless…
Are they violating the sabbath?
The reason God made a new covenant is because the old ones were flawed.
We were never meant to live by the law, we were meant to be condemned by it.
And on the flip side, we are meant to live by christ.
A new covenant was made purposeful for our times. If not for our times, then it would of been established as the first covenant.
Keeping the sabbath is too particular for such an economy driven world, and in such a world…for some people…a day of work is required to feed your family….
[/B]Now according to Jesus if you were in a position to where you needed more money than usual, to keep food on the table for your family…would you work?
Cuz I sure as hell don't have cows and goats to do feed them from the fruits of my imaginary farm.
Hi RokkaMan:As you say, there are many things to take into consideration relative to observing the Sabbath in the modern day world.
Thing like the mode of travel, and the hospitals that you mentioned are examples. Hospitals have restruarants and these by necessity have to be open. Restruarants along the interstates and those in the airports need to be open as well.
As a born again Christian, if I had a business, I would give my employees the day off so that they could rest and go to church if they wanted to do this.
Because of all of these considerations, I believe that it is the principle of the Sabbath that matters. It is a day of rest. Certainly, there should not be any argument that this is a good thing. All of God's principles that He gives us for living are meant for our good.
It should not be meant to be a drudgery saying I can't do this or I can't do that because it is the Sabbath, but if something can be put off until another day because it is the Sabbath, then it would seem to me that God would know the motives and the intent of the heart.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Funny, it seems the only people who find it a “DRUDGERY” are those who despise it like you.Ask any who keep the Sabbath and they will tell you it is a “BLESSING” and a “JOY”.
So where is the problem?
Seems it is self apparent.
Hi Con:I keep the Sabbath, but I believe that it is the principle that matters. And whatever I do, I do out of love for God and for humanity.
I don't keep the Sabbath like a Pharisee.
And since Jesus has shown me the he is the Lord of the Sabbath also, meaning he is the judge of who violates not only this commandments, but all of the commandments that have come from God through him, and since I pray to God on a daily baisis asking him to correct me if I am teaching anything that is not his Word or doing anything that is not his will, I am at peace with the way I keep the Sabbath.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty You need to read what exactly it says in Exodus 31:16-17 The Sabbath is a sign between Me and the children of Israel.
and Exodus 34:27-28
That is a covenant that God made with the children of Israel.We are under a new covenant in His Blood,
Luke 22:19-20Jesus gives us the Law that we are under in
Math. 22:36-40
He also magnified aw on the Sermon on the Mount.
He did not once mentioned the Sabbath. If we would be under that Law He would have told us so IMO.I just don't understand that some here think that they can combine grace with the Old Covenant. Galatians 5 tells us this
Galatians 5:4 You have been estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by Law, you have fallen from grace.Ephesians 2:8
“For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift from God.verse 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
verse 10 For w are His workmanship in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that w should walk in them.
I ask you and others why you want to do like the Jewish people are doing and have to keep the whole Law.
Galatians 5:3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that He is a debtor to keep the whole law.
It is your choice. If you want to do all the things that the Jewish people are doing, belief me you will get tired real soon. Two pairs of everything for the Passover, you can't drive a car, you can't turn on the T.V., you can't listen to the Radio. on and on it goes. And you can't go out and eat at Mc. Donalds or Frishes, or Olive Garden on the Sabbath day. And then their is the atonement for your sins. Oh no you have been fallen from grace. Christ is not with you. They don't believe that Christ came at all yet.
I know some Jewish Folks, no thank you, I will be under grace anytime.
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Mrs:I have already shown you that we, as born again believers, have been grafted into the vine, we are spiritual Israel, and Jesus stated that we should he did not come to change the law but to fulfill it.
All of God's principles for living are good. Our Father wants the best for us, but sometimes, it seems that we are stubborn and don't want to listen to Him.
Six days shall you labor and rest on the seventh is a wonderful thing. The body needs rest and we need this day to fellowship with fellow believers and to worship God as a family.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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