The sabbath a perpetual covenant

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 23 2009,19:12)

Christians should understand the difference between the Sabbath and the Ceremonial Sabbath(s).

Con

There is no difference, it is still called “the Law of sin and death”.

How does the keeping of the Sabbath benifit you in your righteousness toward God?

The answer is “nata”, “zilch”, no amount of keeping the law justifies us to God.

We are living in the New Covenant which is in the Spirit of life which has made us free from the Law of sin and death!

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, “because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.“For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.  And so he condemned sin in sinful man, “in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit“. Rom 8:1-4

Our Sabbath rest is found in Christ when we have ceased from our own works and depend on the work of grace by his Spirit which is written on our hearts by that Spirit!

WJ

[942767]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 24 2009,10:44)

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,11:47) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 24 2009,05:01) To All………The Sabbath is one of the eternal commandments of GOD, it will never be done away with, it is the very symbol of how we are saved, it symbolizes (CEASING OF OUR WORKS) It is exactly what Jesus did he ceased from his work and let GOD work through HIM, it is the same with US we must cease from our works (ETERNALLY), and let GOD work in US (ETERNALLY). The sabbath (IS) a picture of how eternal life works and will never be done away with now or in the future ever. The same goes with all ten commandments they are eternal commandments. GOD does not remove his laws (ten commandments) he writes them on our hearts and minds, they are eternal. The problem is thinking the Sabbath is only one day when in fact it must come to be every day of our lives. peace and love to you all……………………gene Gene, You are confused. Circumcision was also called an “everlasting” covenant. But the apostles discarded circumcision (Acts 15). If you're going to keep the sabbath then get the surgical tool ready. thinker He only discarded it for Gentiles, also circumscision means nothing, it is like water baptism, it is outward sign.

Hi Con:

Quote

Rom 2:25 ¶ For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

The Sabbath is a principle that we should keep. Six days shall you labor and rest on the seventh day. I do not believe that it has to be on a particular day because it is the principle that matters. God made every day, but when I am put in authority in the church, I will teach that we keep the biblical Sabbath in order to bring the church into unity.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[KangarooJack]

Constitutionalist  said:

Quote

Let me show you a number of problems with this argument. First of all, although many Christians will argue that the whole law was 'nailed to the cross', they still consider things like stealing, lying, murder, and adultery to be sins.

You fail to comprehend that the laws regarding stealing, lying, and murder were in place BEFORE Moses. These laws were written on the hearts of the gentiles as well. Moses simply codified these laws for Israel. The laws that are written on the hearts of all men must be obeyed.

Con:

Quote

Secondly, Paul was talking primarily about Jewish traditions, which were added above and beyond the commandments of God. Notice he draws the same distinction that Jesus did between the commandments of God and the 'traditions of men'.

You're quite mistaken. I am self employed and once the state did a random audit on me. The auditor said that I had failed to collect taxes on a service I provided. He claimed that I had to pay those taxes that I failed to collect from my customers. I consulted with a lawyer and the lawyer said that the auditor's interpretation of the tax code was erroneous. Then he said that the code had been repealed. He told me that I was not bound by the auditor's interpretation of the tax code because the code itself had been repealed. Paul was saying that we are not bound to the interpretations of men regarding the codes because the codes on which those interpretations were based were themselves repealed.

One of those codes was the sabbath. Paul said that the sabbath was a “shadow” and that Christ was the “substance.” When were man made codes regarding the sabbath ever called a “shadow” in scripture? Hebrews says that when the substance appears the shadow is done away. Therefore, I am not bound by the interpretations of men regarding the sabbath because the sabbath itself has been done away.

Con:

Quote

Finally, note what was 'nailed to the cross'. Was it the Ten Commandments? No. It was a 'certificate of debt' consisting of 'decrees' which were 'against us' and 'hostile to us'. Are the Ten Commandments against us or hostile to us? No.

Paul said that the ten commmandments were against us,

Quote

But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. (Rom. 7:6)

Paul said that the law held us in bondage. He was speaking about the ten commandments because he said, “For I would not have known sin except the law had said, 'You shall not covet.' “

Con:

Quote

Paul was referring to the cancellation of the law according to the letter.

We agree here. So why did you start this thread? The sabbath law has been cancelled according to the letter. New covenant obedience to the sabbath law is according to the spirit and involves our ceasing from our works in reference to our salvation (see Hebrews). The sabbath was the “shadow” and Christ was the “substance.” When the substance appears the shadow is done away.

thinker

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 24 2009,11:21)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 23 2009,19:12) Christians should understand the difference between the Sabbath and the Ceremonial Sabbath(s). Con There is no difference, it is still called “the Law of sin and death”. How does the keeping of the Sabbath benifit you in your righteousness toward God? The answer is “nata”, “zilch”, no amount of keeping the law justifies us to God. We are living in the New Covenant which is in the Spirit of life which has made us free from the Law of sin and death! Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, “because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.“For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.  And so he condemned sin in sinful man, “in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit“. Rom 8:1-4 Our Sabbath rest is found in Christ when we have ceased from our own works and depend on the work of grace by his Spirit which is written on our hearts by that Spirit! WJ

You do realize the scripture you quoted had nothing to do with The Law of God, right?

Paul is talking in figures of speech saying both The Law of the spirit of life and The Law of sin and death. The Law of God is not the law of sin and death as even Paul states that The Law of God is Holy and Good but those who do not follow the Law are operating under the law of Sin.

Why do you think Jesus called the Pharisees the children of the devil? Because they followed the laws of sin and not the Laws of God had they done so they would have loved him.

The law of sin has operated in man before God ever handed the community laws to Israel. God said sin is at your door and you must MASTER IT.

[georg]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 24 2009,11:49)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 24 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,11:47) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 24 2009,05:01) To All………The Sabbath is one of the eternal commandments of GOD, it will never be done away with, it is the very symbol of how we are saved, it symbolizes (CEASING OF OUR WORKS) It is exactly what Jesus did he ceased from his work and let GOD work through HIM, it is the same with US we must cease from our works (ETERNALLY), and let GOD work in US (ETERNALLY). The sabbath (IS) a picture of how eternal life works and will never be done away with now or in the future ever. The same goes with all ten commandments they are eternal commandments. GOD does not remove his laws (ten commandments) he writes them on our hearts and minds, they are eternal. The problem is thinking the Sabbath is only one day when in fact it must come to be every day of our lives. peace and love to you all……………………gene Gene, You are confused. Circumcision was also called an “everlasting” covenant. But the apostles discarded circumcision (Acts 15). If you're going to keep the sabbath then get the surgical tool ready. thinker He only discarded it for Gentiles, also circumscision means nothing, it is like water baptism, it is outward sign. Hi Con: Quote Rom 2:25 ¶ For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.   Rom 2:26   Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?   Rom 2:27   And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?   Rom 2:28   For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:   Rom 2:29   But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.   The Sabbath is a principle that we should keep.  Six days shall you labor and rest on the seventh day.  I do not believe that it has to be on a particular day because it is the principle that matters.  God made every day, but when I am put in authority in the church, I will teach that we keep the biblical Sabbath in order to bring the church into unity. Love in Christ, Marty

I am really surprised at you, I thought that you should know better. The Sabbath was a covenant that God made with Israel
Exodus 31″16-17 ” Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath to observe the Sabbath Through their generation as perpetual covenant.
verse 17 “It is a sign between me and the children of Israel, forever.
We are under the new covenant under Christ Blood in
Luke 22:20….” This cup is the new covenant in My Blood, which is shed for you.
Did you read W.J. Post. It is the truth and a very good explanation. I agree with that.
Peace and Love Irene

[georg]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 24 2009,12:08)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 24 2009,11:21) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 23 2009,19:12) Christians should understand the difference between the Sabbath and the Ceremonial Sabbath(s). Con There is no difference, it is still called “the Law of sin and death”. How does the keeping of the Sabbath benifit you in your righteousness toward God? The answer is “nata”, “zilch”, no amount of keeping the law justifies us to God. We are living in the New Covenant which is in the Spirit of life which has made us free from the Law of sin and death! Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, “because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.“For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.  And so he condemned sin in sinful man, “in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit“. Rom 8:1-4 Our Sabbath rest is found in Christ when we have ceased from our own works and depend on the work of grace by his Spirit which is written on our hearts by that Spirit! WJ You do realize the scripture you quoted had nothing to do with The Law of God, right? Paul is talking in figures of speech saying both The Law of the spirit of life and The Law of sin and death. The Law of God is not the law of sin and death as even Paul states that The Law of God is Holy and Good but those who do not follow the Law are operating under the law of Sin. Why do you think Jesus called the Pharisees the children of the devil? Because they followed the laws of sin and not the Laws of God had they done so they would have loved him. The law of sin has operated in man before God ever handed the community laws to Israel. God said sin is at your door and you must MASTER IT.

That explanation is a good one and very true.  We are not under the old covenant any more.  Read what I said in other post I made. Romans 8:1-14 indeed talks about the law. You are wrong.
Irene

[942767]

Quote (georg @ Oct. 24 2009,12:10)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 24 2009,11:49) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 24 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,11:47) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 24 2009,05:01) To All………The Sabbath is one of the eternal commandments of GOD, it will never be done away with, it is the very symbol of how we are saved, it symbolizes (CEASING OF OUR WORKS) It is exactly what Jesus did he ceased from his work and let GOD work through HIM, it is the same with US we must cease from our works (ETERNALLY), and let GOD work in US (ETERNALLY). The sabbath (IS) a picture of how eternal life works and will never be done away with now or in the future ever. The same goes with all ten commandments they are eternal commandments. GOD does not remove his laws (ten commandments) he writes them on our hearts and minds, they are eternal. The problem is thinking the Sabbath is only one day when in fact it must come to be every day of our lives. peace and love to you all……………………gene Gene, You are confused. Circumcision was also called an “everlasting” covenant. But the apostles discarded circumcision (Acts 15). If you're going to keep the sabbath then get the surgical tool ready. thinker He only discarded it for Gentiles, also circumscision means nothing, it is like water baptism, it is outward sign. Hi Con: Quote Rom 2:25 ¶ For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.   Rom 2:26   Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?   Rom 2:27   And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?   Rom 2:28   For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:   Rom 2:29   But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.   The Sabbath is a principle that we should keep.  Six days shall you labor and rest on the seventh day.  I do not believe that it has to be on a particular day because it is the principle that matters.  God made every day, but when I am put in authority in the church, I will teach that we keep the biblical Sabbath in order to bring the church into unity. Love in Christ, Marty I am really surprised at you, I thought that you should know better.  The Sabbath was a covenant that God made with Israel Exodus 31″16-17 ” Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath to observe the Sabbath Through their generation as perpetual covenant.   verse 17 “It is a sign between me and the children of Israel, forever. We are under the new covenant under Christ Blood in Luke 22:20….” This cup is the new covenant in My Blood, which is shed for you. Did you read W.J. Post.  It is the truth and a very good explanation. I agree with that. Peace and Love Irene

Hi Mrs:

We have been grafted into the vine, and so we are part of spiritual Israel. We are the “Israel of God”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[georg]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 24 2009,12:56)

Quote (georg @ Oct. 24 2009,12:10) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 24 2009,11:49) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 24 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,11:47) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 24 2009,05:01) To All………The Sabbath is one of the eternal commandments of GOD, it will never be done away with, it is the very symbol of how we are saved, it symbolizes (CEASING OF OUR WORKS) It is exactly what Jesus did he ceased from his work and let GOD work through HIM, it is the same with US we must cease from our works (ETERNALLY), and let GOD work in US (ETERNALLY). The sabbath (IS) a picture of how eternal life works and will never be done away with now or in the future ever. The same goes with all ten commandments they are eternal commandments. GOD does not remove his laws (ten commandments) he writes them on our hearts and minds, they are eternal. The problem is thinking the Sabbath is only one day when in fact it must come to be every day of our lives. peace and love to you all……………………gene Gene, You are confused. Circumcision was also called an “everlasting” covenant. But the apostles discarded circumcision (Acts 15). If you're going to keep the sabbath then get the surgical tool ready. thinker He only discarded it for Gentiles, also circumscision means nothing, it is like water baptism, it is outward sign. Hi Con: Quote Rom 2:25 ¶ For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.   Rom 2:26   Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?   Rom 2:27   And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?   Rom 2:28   For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:   Rom 2:29   But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.   The Sabbath is a principle that we should keep.  Six days shall you labor and rest on the seventh day.  I do not believe that it has to be on a particular day because it is the principle that matters.  God made every day, but when I am put in authority in the church, I will teach that we keep the biblical Sabbath in order to bring the church into unity. Love in Christ, Marty I am really surprised at you, I thought that you should know better.  The Sabbath was a covenant that God made with Israel Exodus 31″16-17 ” Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath to observe the Sabbath Through their generation as perpetual covenant.   verse 17 “It is a sign between me and the children of Israel, forever. We are under the new covenant under Christ Blood in Luke 22:20….” This cup is the new covenant in My Blood, which is shed for you. Did you read W.J. Post.  It is the truth and a very good explanation. I agree with that. Peace and Love Irene Hi Mrs: We have been grafted into the vine, and so we are part of spiritual Israel.  We are the “Israel of God”. Love in Christ, Marty

I believe that you are wrong. Show me Scriptures that say that!! I don't believe anything unless you can prove that to me.
Irene

[princess of the king]

'Whenever, therefore, ye may see the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever is reading let him observe)
1. then those in Judea–let them flee to the mounts;
2. he on the house-top–let him not come down to take up any thing out of his house; and
3. he in the field–let him not turn back to take his garments.

`And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck in those days; (*this part of scripture truly breaks my heart*) and
pray ye that your flight may not be in winter, nor on a sabbath;
for there shall be then great tribulation,
such as was not from the beginning of the world till now, no, nor may be.

mat

so, where will you be when tribulation comes? you have a couple choices, home, outside, in the summer, winter, sabbath, not sabbath.

wonder why, the sabbath was added to this, could it be that some will still be observing sabbath, or does this verse get thrown under the bus for christians, because they are never home, outside, have seasons, sabbaths.

since christians proclaim the sabbath is done away with, then no longer can they proclaim that Christ is Lord of the Sabbath.

poor paul, all his teachings on sabbath were in vain, because everything  he taught on sabbath was not important, it was just the other days that were.

…..pray we see the son of man, and not the things that come to pass, amen.

[princess of the king]

Quote

Paul said that the ten commmandments were against us,

Paul is also known for teaching on every sabbath………….acts

[bodhitharta]

Quote (princess of the king @ Oct. 24 2009,13:22)

'Whenever, therefore, ye may see the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever is reading let him observe) 1. then those in Judea–let them flee to the mounts; 2. he on the house-top–let him not come down to take up any thing out of his house; and 3. he in the field–let him not turn back to take his garments. `And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck in those days; (*this part of scripture truly breaks my heart*) and pray ye that your flight may not be in winter, nor on a sabbath; for there shall be then great tribulation, such as was not from the beginning of the world till now, no, nor may be. mat so, where will you be when tribulation comes? you have a couple choices, home, outside, in the summer, winter, sabbath, not sabbath. wonder why, the sabbath was added to this, could it be that some will still be observing sabbath, or does this verse get thrown under the bus for christians, because they are never home, outside, have seasons, sabbaths. since christians proclaim the sabbath is done away with, then no longer can they proclaim that Christ is Lord of the Sabbath. poor paul, all his teachings on sabbath were in vain, because everything  he taught on sabbath was not important, it was just the other days that were. …..pray we see the son of man, and not the things that come to pass, amen.

Awesome post!

[942767]

Quote (georg @ Oct. 24 2009,13:01)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 24 2009,12:56) Quote (georg @ Oct. 24 2009,12:10) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 24 2009,11:49) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 24 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,11:47) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 24 2009,05:01) To All………The Sabbath is one of the eternal commandments of GOD, it will never be done away with, it is the very symbol of how we are saved, it symbolizes (CEASING OF OUR WORKS) It is exactly what Jesus did he ceased from his work and let GOD work through HIM, it is the same with US we must cease from our works (ETERNALLY), and let GOD work in US (ETERNALLY). The sabbath (IS) a picture of how eternal life works and will never be done away with now or in the future ever. The same goes with all ten commandments they are eternal commandments. GOD does not remove his laws (ten commandments) he writes them on our hearts and minds, they are eternal. The problem is thinking the Sabbath is only one day when in fact it must come to be every day of our lives. peace and love to you all……………………gene Gene, You are confused. Circumcision was also called an “everlasting” covenant. But the apostles discarded circumcision (Acts 15). If you're going to keep the sabbath then get the surgical tool ready. thinker He only discarded it for Gentiles, also circumscision means nothing, it is like water baptism, it is outward sign. Hi Con: Quote Rom 2:25 ¶ For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.   Rom 2:26   Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?   Rom 2:27   And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?   Rom 2:28   For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:   Rom 2:29   But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.   The Sabbath is a principle that we should keep.  Six days shall you labor and rest on the seventh day.  I do not believe that it has to be on a particular day because it is the principle that matters.  God made every day, but when I am put in authority in the church, I will teach that we keep the biblical Sabbath in order to bring the church into unity. Love in Christ, Marty I am really surprised at you, I thought that you should know better.  The Sabbath was a covenant that God made with Israel Exodus 31″16-17 ” Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath to observe the Sabbath Through their generation as perpetual covenant.   verse 17 “It is a sign between me and the children of Israel, forever. We are under the new covenant under Christ Blood in Luke 22:20….” This cup is the new covenant in My Blood, which is shed for you. Did you read W.J. Post.  It is the truth and a very good explanation. I agree with that. Peace and Love Irene Hi Mrs: We have been grafted into the vine, and so we are part of spiritual Israel.  We are the “Israel of God”. Love in Christ, Marty I believe that you are wrong.  Show me Scriptures that say that!!  I don't believe anything unless you can prove that to me. Irene

Hi Mrs:

Quote

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them. Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead? Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches. Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee. Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree? Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Quote

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the w orld is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Gal 6:16 ¶ And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Proof enough?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,06:47)

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 24 2009,05:01) To All………The Sabbath is one of the eternal commandments of GOD, it will never be done away with, it is the very symbol of how we are saved, it symbolizes (CEASING OF OUR WORKS) It is exactly what Jesus did he ceased from his work and let GOD work through HIM, it is the same with US we must cease from our works (ETERNALLY), and let GOD work in US (ETERNALLY). The sabbath (IS) a picture of how eternal life works and will never be done away with now or in the future ever. The same goes with all ten commandments they are eternal commandments. GOD does not remove his laws (ten commandments) he writes them on our hearts and minds, they are eternal. The problem is thinking the Sabbath is only one day when in fact it must come to be every day of our lives. peace and love to you all……………………gene Gene, You are confused. Circumcision was also called an “everlasting” covenant. But the apostles discarded circumcision (Acts 15). If you're going to keep the sabbath then get the surgical tool ready. thinker

thinker ……Circumcision (IS) an everlasting sign of the Circumcision of the Heart, You problem is not applying it to the spiritual reality of what it (truly) means , same with the Sabbath commandment you and other are not removing it from the Physical to the Spiritual level. Why do you think it says “there remains a keeping of the sabbath unto the people of God (ISREAL), it is because they were not keeping the true Sabbath of GOD. We must learn to see through the eyes of the Spirit (intellect) of GOD, not the eyes of this physical world. GOD instituted all his Commandments because they are Spiritual and life. “Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees , you will in no ways inter into the kingdom of GOD”. They keep the physical laws of Sabbaths and circumcisions , but did not have the Spirit to fulfill them Spiritually, the commandments of God are not done away with they are fulfilled in all who are born of the Spirit . “don't think i have come to destory the Law or the Prophets, but to fulfill”.

The ten commandment are not the covenant, they are terms of the covenant between Israel and GOD. The covenant is the agreement it self.

The sabbath (man ceasing from(HIS) works)< is the sign of Salvation between GOD and Man an eternal sign, that is why it is (IN) the ten commandments. Thinker why do you keep looking at things through Physical eyes, start looking at them through the eyes of the Spirit, then you will understand them.

peace and love……………gene

[georg]

Some time ago we went to the Baptist Bible study with our Son who was a member there.  We had a study on those Scriptures that you gave.  We were told that it was talking about Israel being grafted back in.  Because of their transgression.

First of all, whether we are grafted in or not, we are not Jewish.  God made the Commandment on Mount Sinai with the Children of Israel and not with us.
In Ephesians 23:8-9 it tells us that we under grace by Faith, and not of ourselves, it is a free gift from God.  So nobody can boast.
Galatians4
verse 21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
verse 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bonds woman, the other by a free woman.
verse 23 But he who was of the bond woman was born according to the flesh, and he of the free woman through promise.
verse 24  which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants; the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage which is Hagar.
verse 31 So brethren we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.  Why was the law given in the first place.  It was added because of transgression.  Abraham did not live under that law.  But He was found righteous in God's eyes.

Galatians 5:4  “You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Christ has set us free in His Blood we are under the New Covenant and not the Law of Exodus 31 and 34.
But if you want to keep the Sabbath that is up to you.  We have former Church member that still does so.  We did also in the W.W.C. of God.  We have learned that we are not under that law.  We are under the law that Jesus gave us.  I gave that to you in my previous post.
Irene

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2009,16:21)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 23 2009,19:12) Christians should understand the difference between the Sabbath and the Ceremonial Sabbath(s). Con There is no difference, it is still called “the Law of sin and death”. How does the keeping of the Sabbath benifit you in your righteousness toward God? The answer is “nata”, “zilch”, no amount of keeping the law justifies us to God. We are living in the New Covenant which is in the Spirit of life which has made us free from the Law of sin and death! Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, “because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.“For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.  And so he condemned sin in sinful man, “in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit“. Rom 8:1-4 Our Sabbath rest is found in Christ when we have ceased from our own works and depend on the work of grace by his Spirit which is written on our hearts by that Spirit! WJ

Keeping the Sabbath is not about 'MY RIGHTOUSNESS”!

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 23 2009,16:49)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 24 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,11:47) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 24 2009,05:01) To All………The Sabbath is one of the eternal commandments of GOD, it will never be done away with, it is the very symbol of how we are saved, it symbolizes (CEASING OF OUR WORKS) It is exactly what Jesus did he ceased from his work and let GOD work through HIM, it is the same with US we must cease from our works (ETERNALLY), and let GOD work in US (ETERNALLY). The sabbath (IS) a picture of how eternal life works and will never be done away with now or in the future ever. The same goes with all ten commandments they are eternal commandments. GOD does not remove his laws (ten commandments) he writes them on our hearts and minds, they are eternal. The problem is thinking the Sabbath is only one day when in fact it must come to be every day of our lives. peace and love to you all……………………gene Gene, You are confused. Circumcision was also called an “everlasting” covenant. But the apostles discarded circumcision (Acts 15). If you're going to keep the sabbath then get the surgical tool ready. thinker He only discarded it for Gentiles, also circumscision means nothing, it is like water baptism, it is outward sign. Hi Con: Quote Rom 2:25 ¶ For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.   Rom 2:26   Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?   Rom 2:27   And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?   Rom 2:28   For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:   Rom 2:29   But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.   The Sabbath is a principle that we should keep.  Six days shall you labor and rest on the seventh day.  I do not believe that it has to be on a particular day because it is the principle that matters.  God made every day, but when I am put in authority in the church, I will teach that we keep the biblical Sabbath in order to bring the church into unity. Love in Christ, Marty

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

But God did give us a day, why not be glad in that day?

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,16:55)

Constitutionalist  said: Quote Let me show you a number of problems with this argument. First of all, although many Christians will argue that the whole law was 'nailed to the cross', they still consider things like stealing, lying, murder, and adultery to be sins. You fail to comprehend that the laws regarding stealing, lying, and murder were in place BEFORE Moses. These laws were written on the hearts of the gentiles as well. Moses simply codified these laws for Israel. The laws that are written on the hearts of all men must be obeyed. Con: Quote Secondly, Paul was talking primarily about Jewish traditions, which were added above and beyond the commandments of God. Notice he draws the same distinction that Jesus did between the commandments of God and the 'traditions of men'. You're quite mistaken. I am self employed and once the state did a random audit on me. The auditor said that I had failed to collect taxes on a service I provided. He claimed that I had to pay those taxes that I failed to collect from my customers. I consulted with a lawyer and the lawyer said that the auditor's interpretation of the tax code was erroneous. Then he said that the code had been repealed. He told me that I was not bound by the auditor's interpretation of the tax code because the code itself had been repealed. Paul was saying that we are not bound to the interpretations of men regarding the codes because the codes on which those interpretations were based were themselves repealed. One of those codes was the sabbath. Paul said that the sabbath was a “shadow” and that Christ was the “substance.” When were man made codes regarding the sabbath ever called a “shadow” in scripture? Hebrews says that when the substance appears the shadow is done away. Therefore, I am not bound by the interpretations of men regarding the sabbath because the sabbath itself has been done away. Con: Quote Finally, note what was 'nailed to the cross'. Was it the Ten Commandments? No. It was a 'certificate of debt' consisting of 'decrees' which were 'against us' and 'hostile to us'. Are the Ten Commandments against us or hostile to us? No. Paul said that the ten commmandments were against us, Quote But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. (Rom. 7:6) Paul said that the law held us in bondage. He was speaking about the ten commandments because he said, “For I would not have known sin except the law had said, 'You shall not covet.' “ Con: Quote Paul was referring to the cancellation of the law according to the letter. We agree here. So why did you start this thread? The sabbath law has been cancelled according to the letter. New covenant obedience to the sabbath law is according to the spirit and involves our ceasing from our works in reference to our salvation (see Hebrews). The sabbath was the “shadow” and Christ was the “substance.” When the substance appears the shadow is done away. thinker

Constitutionalist said:

Quote

Let me show you a number of problems with this argument. First of all, although many Christians will argue that the whole law was 'nailed to the cross', they still consider things like stealing, lying, murder, and adultery to be sins.

Quote

TT You fail to comprehend that the laws regarding stealing, lying, and murder were in place BEFORE Moses. These laws were written on the hearts of the gentiles as well. Moses simply codified these laws for Israel. The laws that are written on the hearts of all men must be obeyed.

I have not failed to comprehend that. Funny thing is when I mention those same laws written on the heart (without mentioning the heart) everyone in here screams “were not under that covenant, he abolished them things, its dead. And you just now said its alive and must be obeyed.

Funny you say what was written on stone is not needed, and what is written on the heart must be heeded.

Same law. No difference. Identical.

But the curse (penalty) of that old law has been transferred, from the blood of the bullock, to the blood of christ, thus allowing us to to take our petition straight to christ.

Both Laws are just words written (Stone-Heart).

Both Laws point out what sin is.

Both Laws bring us unto repentance.

Both laws bring condemnation if not dealt with.

Both laws if one views the law brings salvation leads to death.

Both laws if viewed that God alone brings salvation through grace brings life.

This is why condemnation is found in both testaments.

This is why grace is found in both testaments.

Its about the view.

Grace destroys the “curse of the law”.

Grace “magnifies the law”.

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 23 2009,19:57)

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,06:47) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 24 2009,05:01) To All………The Sabbath is one of the eternal commandments of GOD, it will never be done away with, it is the very symbol of how we are saved, it symbolizes (CEASING OF OUR WORKS) It is exactly what Jesus did he ceased from his work and let GOD work through HIM, it is the same with US we must cease from our works (ETERNALLY), and let GOD work in US (ETERNALLY). The sabbath (IS) a picture of how eternal life works and will never be done away with now or in the future ever. The same goes with all ten commandments they are eternal commandments. GOD does not remove his laws (ten commandments) he writes them on our hearts and minds, they are eternal. The problem is thinking the Sabbath is only one day when in fact it must come to be every day of our lives. peace and love to you all……………………gene Gene, You are confused. Circumcision was also called an “everlasting” covenant. But the apostles discarded circumcision (Acts 15). If you're going to keep the sabbath then get the surgical tool ready. thinker thinker ……Circumcision (IS) an  everlasting sign of the Circumcision of the Heart, You problem is not applying it to the spiritual reality of what it (truly) means , same with the Sabbath commandment you and other are not removing it from the Physical to the Spiritual level. Why do you think it says “there remains a keeping of the sabbath unto the people of God (ISREAL), it is because they were not keeping the true Sabbath of GOD. We must learn to see through the eyes of the Spirit (intellect) of GOD, not the eyes of this physical world. GOD instituted all his Commandments because they are Spiritual and life. “Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees , you will in no ways inter into the kingdom of GOD”.  They keep the physical laws of Sabbaths and circumcisions , but did not have the Spirit to fulfill them Spiritually, the commandments of God are not done away with they are  fulfilled in all who are born of the Spirit .  “don't think i have come to destory the Law or the Prophets, but to fulfill”. The ten commandment are not the covenant, they are terms of the covenant between Israel and GOD. The covenant is the agreement it self. The sabbath (man ceasing  from(HIS) works)< is the sign of Salvation between GOD and Man an eternal sign, that is why it is (IN) the ten commandments.  Thinker why do you keep looking at things through Physical eyes, start looking at them through the eyes of the Spirit, then you will understand them. peace and love……………gene

Amen Gene, you see it for what it is. The Spirit of God is in you.

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (georg @ Oct. 23 2009,21:48)

Some time ago we went to the Baptist Bible study with our Son who was a member there.  We had a study on those Scriptures that you gave.  We were told that it was talking about Israel being grafted back in.  Because of their transgression. First of all, whether we are grafted in or not, we are not Jewish.  God made the Commandment on Mount Sinai with the Children of Israel and not with us. In Ephesians 23:8-9 it tells us that we under grace by Faith, and not of ourselves, it is a free gift from God.  So nobody can boast. Galatians4 verse 21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? verse 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bonds woman, the other by a free woman. verse 23 But he who was of the bond woman was born according to the flesh, and he of the free woman through promise. verse 24  which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants; the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage which is Hagar. verse 31 So brethren we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.  Why was the law given in the first place.  It was added because of transgression.  Abraham did not live under that law.  But He was found righteous in God's eyes. Galatians 5:4  “You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Christ has set us free in His Blood we are under the New Covenant and not the Law of Exodus 31 and 34. But if you want to keep the Sabbath that is up to you.  We have former Church member that still does so.  We did also in the W.W.C. of God.  We have learned that we are not under that law.  We are under the law that Jesus gave us.  I gave that to you in my previous post. Irene

So the Ten Commandments mean nothing to you? Since you are not a Jew?

[georg]

To whoever cares

What “was” the law?

Exd 34:27 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.  
Exd 34:28   And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.  
Exd 32:15 ¶ And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.  

Have you ever wondered why it took Moses 40 days to receive 10 commandments?
Have you also noticed before that the tablets were written on both sides, what was on them?

Exd 32:16   And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.  

Here is the answer.

Lev 27:34 ¶ These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.  

Read the entire book of Leviticus, and you will find out what was written on the two tablets, they are referred to as the ten (meaning all) commandments, also referred to as the “Law” of Moses.

That was the “Law” Paul is referring too.

Hbr 7:12   For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.  

Can you “see” that? the LAW was changed.

Hbr 7:19   For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.  
Rom 14:1 ¶ Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.  
Rom 14:4   Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.  
Rom 14:5   One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.  
Rom 14:6   He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.  
Rom 14:7   For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.  
Rom 14:8   For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.  
Rom 14:9   For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.  
Rom 14:10   But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.  
Rom 14:11   For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.  
Rom 14:12   So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.  
Rom 14:13   Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.  

Georg

[Author]

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