- This topic is empty.
- Posts
G,
But iNTELLECT Is not in scripture.
Can you do away with this idea of yours and abide in scripture?Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 01 2009,06:46) Gene, No one has ever been forced to comply with God's commands.
Amen to that.AKerwin…..wrong a man was just gathering wood on the sabbath day and (GOD) said to Kill HIM. A death sentences was given to him and you say no one was forced to keep the commandments . I suppose you think our driving laws are not enforced either, Just try breaking them and find out. When the laws were given the people were so scared they trembled at the site, and Moses said that God did that so the (FEAR) of Him would cause the people to not sin. Who ever trespassed against the laws of GOD died without mercy, there are many examples of this happening. Law is not Law if it has no enforcement it's just a suggestion them.
Law works through enforcement and enforcement creates fear of violation, like when you are going down the highway and you see a highway patrol , what causes to slow down, your natural desire to be safe or you see the enforcer. Paul said Brethern you have (not ) come to that mountain to Fear as they did. The difference between the old testament law forcing obedience to GOD commandments which were contrary to their natures, and the New covenant is the Way the commandments are (KEPT) one is through the medium of fear, the other is a (NEW CREATION) within a person. Big difference, But the ten commandments are NOT done away with, they are (FULFILLED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD) IN US.
gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 01 2009,06:05) G,
But iNTELLECT Is not in scripture.
Can you do away with this idea of yours and abide in scripture?
Nick……….Go figure out what a (WORD) is and if you don't think that a word is the expression of one intellect. then you certinally will stay confused about what SPIRIT is . Read what Jesus said and believe it and this should take care of your problem about what SPIRIT IS.gene
To all……..One of the biggest problems i have seen Here and in religion in general, is (OVER COMPLICATION OF WHAT IS SAID), a Good example is the TRINITY Thread thousands of opinions on John 1:1 People can't even get (ONE) sentence right in their minds. They change word from Simply (expression of intellect of GOD) to a person (Jesus), and that adds something that John was (NOT) saying, they aren't even smart enough to think if John wanted to say Jesus he would Have said that. So all kinds of speculations now exist over (ONE) simple sentence. Mystery (BABYLON) (confusion) RELIGION. And that is just ONE sentence imagine a complete bible pure confusion. Hardly no one can even agree on something simple here.
gene
G,
You keep trying to add your concepts into scripture and then complain about others?
Leaving your stuff at home where you have a believer would help us all.Quote (Gene @ Nov. 01 2009,10:59) To all……..One of the biggest problems i have seen Here and in religion in general, is (OVER COMPLICATION OF WHAT IS SAID), a Good example is the TRINITY Thread thousands of opinions on John 1:1 People can't even get (ONE) sentence right in their minds. They change word from Simply (expression of intellect of GOD) to a person (Jesus), and that adds something that John was (NOT) saying, they aren't even smart enough to think if John wanted to say Jesus he would Have said that. So all kinds of speculations now exist over (ONE) simple sentence. Mystery (BABYLON) (confusion) RELIGION. And that is just ONE sentence imagine a complete bible pure confusion. Hardly no one can even agree on something simple here. gene
The problem with your idea of INTERLECT is that it became flesh in verse 14.
Why John said the Word was God, is still not known today, however if that word became flesh, who else but Jesus could it be, you tell us, who!!!
I believe it is Jesus. He preexisted as a Spirit being. Why? Because other Scriptures go along with John 1:1. like
Col. 1:15-17 and
Rev. 3:14 and by Jesus own words in
John 17:5 ” And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the word was.” I am glad that there are still people around that I know that believe the Bible is still God's Word. We are not confused about the Bible. So there are some errors, and that is understandable because it was a long time ago when the Bible was translated into English. We have a Geman Bible and it is the same then the English.Peacead Love Irene
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 01 2009,10:40) AKerwin…..wrong a man was just gathering wood on the sabbath day and (GOD) said to Kill HIM. A death sentences was given to him and you say no one was forced to keep the commandments . I suppose you think our driving laws are not enforced either, Just try breaking them and find out. When the laws were given the people were so scared they trembled at the site, and Moses said that God did that so the (FEAR) of Him would cause the people to not sin. Who ever trespassed against the laws of GOD died without mercy, there are many examples of this happening. Law is not Law if it has no enforcement it's just a suggestion them. Law works through enforcement and enforcement creates fear of violation, like when you are going down the highway and you see a highway patrol , what causes to slow down, your natural desire to be safe or you see the enforcer. Paul said Brethern you have (not ) come to that mountain to Fear as they did. The difference between the old testament law forcing obedience to GOD commandments which were contrary to their natures, and the New covenant is the Way the commandments are (KEPT) one is through the medium of fear, the other is a (NEW CREATION) within a person. Big difference, But the ten commandments are NOT done away with, they are (FULFILLED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD) IN US.
gene
Hi Gene;The laws of the Nation of Israel were enforced, just as the laws of society are enforeced, but no one is forced to obey.
Granted there are consequences for those who choose to disobey the law, just as there are consequences for those who choose not to believe and obey the gospel.
There is a difference.
Love in Christ,
MartyMARTY………My point was Kerwin said they (the ten commandments) were not enforced and they were enforced . Law requires enforcement in order for it to be a LAW. This enforcement creates a Fear and respect for it. God's commandments were against our natures and their also. So Created a new Nature by transforming Us through His Spirit into a new creation that Naturally keep his commandments even if they were not written as in the case of the gentiles. But nothing is done away with in the ten commandments , they are fulfilled by the Spirit of GOD in Us. Not by the way (LAW) Works. IMO
gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 01 2009,11:06) G,
You keep trying to add your concepts into scripture and then complain about others?
Leaving your stuff at home where you have a believer would help us all.
Nick………..I am adding no concepts to scriptures, you simply don't understand what Jesus said. As i said go figure our what a word is and the confusion may leave you. Nothing add just understand what Jesus said and meant.gene
Marty……..On the one hand you say they were enforced, and then say the were not forced to obey, can you see (enforced) to be forced to obey. Paul's argument is Not against the ten commandments , it was (HOW) they were Made to Work in peoples lives. WAS it by (works) of LAW (forced compliance) or BY the operation of GOD writing them on our Hearts. That was Paul ONLY POINT. Nothing else, he was not destroying the Commandments of GOD. He said do we nullify them “GOD FORBID” WE ESTABLISH THEM. People were accusing Paul of doing away with them even back them as they still are doing today.
gene
Gene wrote:
Quote wrong a man was just gathering wood on the Sabbath day and (GOD) said to Kill HIM. A death sentences was given to him and you say no one was forced to keep the commandments
It sound like you are mixing the American political philosophy of libertarianism with God’s word. Just because there is a cost for committing an action does not mean you are forced not to do it. I for instance have went out and bought a gallon of milk for a 1.99 in U.S. dollars. I chose to do that even though it had a cost attached. The man in question chose to take the chance that the just cost of his action would demanded of him if he violated the Sabbath Law. There is a cost for violating the commands of God though sometimes others pay that cost for us. Some people choose to risk their life being demanded of them because they find it thrilling.
Note: This is an interesting topic because Jesus seemed to interpret different than what they literally state. His variation of interpretation caused the Pharisees no end of confusion. That has nothing to do with force though it does have to do with how mercy effects justice.
Gene wrote:
Quote Law works through enforcement and enforcement creates fear of violation, like when you are going down the highway and you see a highway patrol , what causes to slow down, your natural desire to be safe or you see the enforcer.
Why does an individual speed even though there is a chance they may pay their life or limb. In short they choose to pay the cost for various reasons. On the other hand they see a police officer and fear they may have to pay another price and so choose to slow down.
Deuteronomy 30:19-20(KJV) reads:
Quote I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
You can claim that the choice is influenced but then so is my choice of purchasing a gallon of milk.
I read all of this in amazement because you all must be Jews.
Exodus 3:16 “Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath to observe it Sabbath throughout their generation as a perpetual covenant.verse 17 “It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever…
This is pretty clear tat the Sabbath is for the children of Israel. And they still keep it today.
IreneQuote (georg @ Nov. 01 2009,17:14) I read all of this in amazement because you all must be Jews.
Exodus 3:16 “Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath to observe it Sabbath throughout their generation as a perpetual covenant.verse 17 “It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever…
This is pretty clear tat the Sabbath is for the children of Israel. And they still keep it today.
Irene
People also have individual customs. On may make a vow to the Lord while another does not. Each should not judge the other by the way they render their service to the Lord.Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 01 2009,22:31) Quote (georg @ Nov. 01 2009,17:14) I read all of this in amazement because you all must be Jews.
Exodus 3:16 “Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath to observe it Sabbath throughout their generation as a perpetual covenant.verse 17 “It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever…
This is pretty clear tat the Sabbath is for the children of Israel. And they still keep it today.
Irene
People also have individual customs. On may make a vow to the Lord while another does not. Each should not judge the other by the way they render their service to the Lord.
Rendering service to the Lord is not exactly what the Sabbath is all about is it? If it would only be that, I would not say anything about it. But like the Pharisees before, some will think if one does not keep the Sabbath that they are sinning. That is the farthest from the truth, now isn't.
If you are a Jew, you are bound by that commandment, but not us who are gentles. And I am not judging, I am debating what you and others are saying, that is not judging. Now if I would say, you are stupid to do so, yes that would be judging.
IreneKerwin……..Not one word of what you said involved the word (LAW) but you are talking about CHOICE I was not talking about that word, I was talking about what LAW IS Law does not say if you Choose to obey of not, Law says you must obey or pay the circumstance, which in the case of the ten commandment is death. So God did not change His ten commandments , He changed US to comply with them, the commandments of GOD are Eternal (ALL) of the, including the Sabbath. and are fulfilled through the SPIRIT of GOD. IMO
gene
gene
Irene ……….If you do not keep the sabbath spiritually, you can in not way enter into the kingdom of GOD, notice i said Spiritually , Not physically. The spiritual Sabbath is the way salvation works for all. We must cease from (OUR) works and let GOD Will be done in ALL and Through ALL. The sabbath is the sign of GOD'S people all of them, including Jesus also. IMO
peace and love to you and Georg……………….gene
Gene wrote:
Quote Law WORKS through ( FORCED COMPLIANCE) That is what LAW IS.
You can say that law works through “coerced” compliance. Since I believe force can be a synonym of “coerce” in that sense you can also states God forces to obey him. That is not how I take “force” . If God forced you to do something then you would do it because you cannot resist God. So if God forced the Hebrew people to obey the Law of Mosses then they would have been 100% in compliance with that Law. What God did instead was lay out the cost of disobeying it. I do not even know if that can be called coerced since even those without the Law pay a cost for disobedience of the Law.
Gene wrote:
Quote Law is enforcement there by A statue becomes a LAW, when enforcement is attached to it.
You are certainly misunderstand what Paul teaches as he states that the wrath of God will be on those who choose to do evil.
Romans 2:1-15(KJV) reads:
Quote Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)Quote (georg @ Nov. 01 2009,21:55) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 01 2009,22:31) Quote (georg @ Nov. 01 2009,17:14) I read all of this in amazement because you all must be Jews.
Exodus 3:16 “Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath to observe it Sabbath throughout their generation as a perpetual covenant.verse 17 “It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever…
This is pretty clear tat the Sabbath is for the children of Israel. And they still keep it today.
Irene
People also have individual customs. On may make a vow to the Lord while another does not. Each should not judge the other by the way they render their service to the Lord.
Rendering service to the Lord is not exactly what the Sabbath is all about is it? If it would only be that, I would not say anything about it. But like the Pharisees before, some will think if one does not keep the Sabbath that they are sinning. That is the farthest from the truth, now isn't.
If you are a Jew, you are bound by that commandment, but not us who are gentles. And I am not judging, I am debating what you and others are saying, that is not judging. Now if I would say, you are stupid to do so, yes that would be judging.
IreneIrene,
To some the discussion of the Sabbath is about rendering service to God and why they feel they are doing so by honoring it. While others attempt to coerce their neighbor to serve the Lord as they are serving him. I try to differentiate between the two since only the second is considered a sin.
I am glad to hear you are not judging people according to the service they are rendering to the Lord. I also understand you are justified in defending your own right to serve the Lord as you see fit.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
