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From what I have heard, and from what I have read here on the forum, there seems to be a great misunderstanding of Jesus’ ransom.
How does Jesus ransom effect us?
Why did Jesus say;” he came to ransom many?” (Math. 20:28), and Paul says :” he gave himself a ransom for all” (1 Tim. 2:6), is Paul contradicting Jesus?
What is a ransom?
A ransom is an exchange of something, for something. You want something I have, you have to give me something I consider equal in value.
Paul explains; “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23), that is permanent death not just dying and then living again.
What is sin? “Sin is the transgression of the law” (1 John 3:4), or command.
Adam was told not to eat of that one tree, or he would die. Adam disobeyed and ate of the fruit, the fact that he did not die immediately shows it was not the fruit that caused his death, it was sin, his disobedience to God. His death would have been permanently if it hadn’t been for Jesus who became his ransom.
Why could no other human be Adams ransom? Two main reason;
One; who ever would have become his ransom would than have to remain in the grave since he would have taken on Adams sins.
Two; when Adam sinned God cursed him and all his posterity, we were all doomed to die before we were born, before we committed any sin. Although we all have sinned and deserve death, we do not now die for our sins, Paul says, “as in Adam all die” (1 Cor. 15:22).
How then could Jesus become Adam’s ransom?
Adam was human by nature, Jesus was spirit by nature, and not effected by the curse of death. In order for Jesus to become Adam’s ransom he had to become one of us, human. God took away his spirit nature, and gave him a human nature (Heb. 2:16), a human body of flesh and blood; although his mind remained the same because, he knew who he was, where he came from, and why he had come.
So how did Jesus become Adam’s ransom?
When Jesus died on the cross, he died for the sins of Adam. Jesus took the sins of Adam and placed them on himself, that freed Adam from the permanent penalty of death, because the body of Jesus took on all of his sins. I emphasize body because his mind/spirit remained without sin. When God resurrected Jesus, it was not his flesh and blood body that was raised, God gave him back his true nature, spirit nature. The human body of Jesus, laden with sin, had to remain in the grave, that is how he ransomed Adam, his body for Adams. Jesus human body did his purpose, it was no longer needed, and God disposed of it, for obvious reasons.
So in what way does the ransom effect all of us?
When Jesus took on himself the sins of Adam, he also removed the curse of death from all of us, that guarantees all of us a resurrection (1 Cor. 15:22). It is only after our resurrection, and only after we except Jesus as our savior, can he become our ransom and take away our sins, and in tern God will give us the gift of eternal life (Rom. 6:23).
So Paul is correct in saying, “he gave himself a ransom for all”, that he did, but the fact that not all will except his ransom Jesus is right in saying, “he came to ransom many”Georg
Quote (georg @ Sep. 25 2009,11:34) From what I have heard, and from what I have read here on the forum, there seems to be a great misunderstanding of Jesus’ ransom.
How does Jesus ransom effect us?
Why did Jesus say;” he came to ransom many?” (Math. 20:28), and Paul says :” he gave himself a ransom for all” (1 Tim. 2:6), is Paul contradicting Jesus?
What is a ransom?
A ransom is an exchange of something, for something. You want something I have, you have to give me something I consider equal in value.
Paul explains; “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23), that is permanent death not just dying and then living again.
What is sin? “Sin is the transgression of the law” (1 John 3:4), or command.
Adam was told not to eat of that one tree, or he would die. Adam disobeyed and ate of the fruit, the fact that he did not die immediately shows it was not the fruit that caused his death, it was sin, his disobedience to God. His death would have been permanently if it hadn’t been for Jesus who became his ransom.
Why could no other human be Adams ransom? Two main reason;
One; who ever would have become his ransom would than have to remain in the grave since he would have taken on Adams sins.
Two; when Adam sinned God cursed him and all his posterity, we were all doomed to die before we were born, before we committed any sin. Although we all have sinned and deserve death, we do not now die for our sins, Paul says, “as in Adam all die” (1 Cor. 15:22).
How then could Jesus become Adam’s ransom?
Adam was human by nature, Jesus was spirit by nature, and not effected by the curse of death. In order for Jesus to become Adam’s ransom he had to become one of us, human. God took away his spirit nature, and gave him a human nature (Heb. 2:16), a human body of flesh and blood; although his mind remained the same because, he knew who he was, where he came from, and why he had come.
So how did Jesus become Adam’s ransom?
When Jesus died on the cross, he died for the sins of Adam. Jesus took the sins of Adam and placed them on himself, that freed Adam from the permanent penalty of death, because the body of Jesus took on all of his sins. I emphasize body because his mind/spirit remained without sin. When God resurrected Jesus, it was not his flesh and blood body that was raised, God gave him back his true nature, spirit nature. The human body of Jesus, laden with sin, had to remain in the grave, that is how he ransomed Adam, his body for Adams. Jesus human body did his purpose, it was no longer needed, and God disposed of it, for obvious reasons.
So in what way does the ransom effect all of us?
When Jesus took on himself the sins of Adam, he also removed the curse of death from all of us, that guarantees all of us a resurrection (1 Cor. 15:22). It is only after our resurrection, and only after we except Jesus as our savior, can he become our ransom and take away our sins, and in tern God will give us the gift of eternal life (Rom. 6:23).
So Paul is correct in saying, “he gave himself a ransom for all”, that he did, but the fact that not all will except his ransom Jesus is right in saying, “he came to ransom many”Georg
From what I have heard, and from what I have read here on the forum, there seems to be a great misunderstanding of Jesus’ ransom.
How does Jesus ransom effect us?In my opinion I believe the results of his ransom is either eternal life or death.
Why did Jesus say;” he came to ransom many?” (Math. 20:28), and Paul says :” he gave himself a ransom for all” (1 Tim. 2:6), is Paul contradicting Jesus?
No, I do not believe so, I believe when Jesus came he came for the Jews and their salvation and after his death when the message eventually included the Gentiles then the rest came into the fold and adoption into the vine. That is just my opinion.
What is a ransom?
A price paid?
A ransom is an exchange of something, for something. You want something I have, you have to give me something I consider equal in value.
Yes it is quid quo pro quo, but does not have to be equal in value. For we as sinners do not deserve salvation, do we? If something could be equally given for salvation then why is it free?
Psalm 49:7 None [of them] can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
Proverbs 6:35He will not regard any ransom; neither will he rest content, though thou givest many gifts.Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Timothy2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.Paul explains; “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23), that is permanent death not just dying and then living again.
I concur.
What is sin? “Sin is the transgression of the law” (1 John 3:4), or command.
I concur.
Adam was told not to eat of that one tree, or he would die. Adam disobeyed and ate of the fruit, the fact that he did not die immediately shows it was not the fruit that caused his death, it was sin, his disobedience to God. His death would have been permanently if it hadn’t been for Jesus who became his ransom.
Ok, I would not argue that either.
Why could no other human be Adams ransom? Two main reason;
One; who ever would have become his ransom would than have to remain in the grave since he would have taken on Adams sins.Why would they or he have to remain in the grave? Was not Jesus resurrected? He took on the sins of the world not Adam only.
Two; when Adam sinned God cursed him and all his posterity, we were all doomed to die before we were born, before we committed any sin. Although we all have sinned and deserve death, we do not now die for our sins, Paul says, “as in Adam all die” (1 Cor. 15:22).
Are you referring to the first death or the second death?
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
How then could Jesus become Adam’s ransom?
1Corinthians 15:20-24 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Corinthians 15:35-50 But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds. [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terr
estrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another. [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory. So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven. As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.How then could Jesus become Adam’s ransom?
Adam was human by nature, Jesus was spirit by nature, and not effected by the curse of death. In order for Jesus to become Adam’s ransom he had to become one of us, human. God took away his spirit nature, and gave him a human nature (Heb. 2:16), a human body of flesh and blood; although his mind remained the same because, he knew who he was, where he came from, and why he had come.
So how did Jesus become Adam’s ransom?Jesus was born of flesh (corruptable) (mortal) died and was raised (incorruptable) (immortal).
Jesus is the firstborn/begotten of the resurrected.
1Corinthians 15:51-58 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
So how did Jesus become Adam’s ransom?
When Jesus died on the cross, he died for the sins of Adam. Jesus took the sins of Adam and placed them on himself, that freed Adam from the permanent penalty of death, because the body of Jesus took on all of his sins. I emphasize body because his mind/spirit remained without sin. When God resurrected Jesus, it was not his flesh and blood body that was raised, God gave him back his true nature, spirit nature. The human body of Jesus, laden with sin, had to remain in the grave, that is how he ransomed Adam, his body for Adams. Jesus human body did his purpose, it was no longer needed, and God disposed of it, for obvious reasons.I find that nowhere in scripture about his body being disposed of.
John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
I believe it was his very body but glorified (incorruptable/and immortal).
I hope this helps with my view. Blessings
CT……..Adam did die in the (DAY) that he ate (took to himself) of the (tree) (that which produces from the self) the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
A thousand years is as a DAY with GOD and a DAY is as a thousand years. So from this perspective Adam did die in the (DAY) He ate or took to himself the knowledge of good and evil. No one has lived over a thousand years in the flesh so all die in the (DAY) they sin. IMO
peace and love……………….gene
Georg………God never cursed Adam or Eve, in fact He said, Cursed is the ground (FOR YOU SAKE), GOD cursed the ground in order to teach Adam the consequences of disobedience, for the GOOD of ADAM, not to Cruse HIM personally. Eve also bore personal Chastisement for He part also. But i believe it was never to curse them , but to chasten them. IMO
peace and love ……………..gene
Const.
From the top.
(In my opinion I believe the results of his ransom is either eternal life or death.)
It is not the result of the ransom that determents wether you live or die, Jesus death on the cross only opened the door of our graves, it is how we live after the resurrection, ruled by and tought by Jesus, during his 1000 year reign, that determents whether our name goes into the book of life.
(No, I do not believe so, I believe when Jesus came he came for the Jews and their salvation and after
his death when the message eventually included the Gentiles then the rest came into the fold and adoption into the vine. That is just my opinion.)
Jesus said himself that he was send to the lost sheep, the house of Israel (Mat. 15:24), he also told his apostle's, at the beginning of his ministry, not to go into any Gentile cities (Mat. 10:5,6); that was in fulfilling of the prophecy of Dan. 9:24, because he did speak of other sheep he had to bring under his care (John 10:16).(Yes it is quid quo pro quo, but does not have to be equal in value. For we as sinners do not deserve salvation, do we? If something could be equally given for salvation then why is it free?)
Our salvation is free because Jesus paid the price, it is free only for those who except Jesus sacrifice for their sins.
(1Timothy2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.), you put up this scripture yourself, Jesus did die for all, but not all will except his sacrifice, the due time will be the millennium.(Why would they or he have to remain in the grave? Was not Jesus resurrected? He took on the sins of the world not Adam only.)
Why did Jesus have to did for Adams sin? had his sins remained on him Adam would not have a chance to live again, the same goes for all of us. Jesus freed Adam from his sins by taking on his and all of our sins, therefore, Jesus human body had to remain in the grave, in our stead. Jesus true nature was spirit, God raised him up in his true nature, that is how God is able to forgive us our sins and give us eternal life, leaving the sinful, human, body in the grave. Although God did tell us he would not allow that body to decay (Ps. 16:10). You actually answered your own question by quoting 1 Cor. 15:50, how indeed, could Jesus have entered into God's kingdom in his human body?
(Jesus was born of flesh (corruptable) (mortal) died and was raised (incorruptable) (immortal).
Jesus is the firstborn/begotten of the resurrected.You are absolutely correct.
(Are you referring to the first death or the second death?)
First death.
(I find that nowhere in scripture about his body being disposed of.
John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
I believe it was his very body but glorified (incorruptable/and immortal).)Thomas only recognized Jesus by his wounds, not by his sight; none of the apostles, and Mary Magdalene, recognized him by sight (John 20:15; 21:4; Luke 24:15,16), and read what Paul has to say in 2 Cor. 5:16.
Thank you for your response,
Georg
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 04 2009,03:03) Georg………God never cursed Adam or Eve, in fact He said, Cursed is the ground (FOR YOU SAKE), GOD cursed the ground in order to teach Adam the consequences of disobedience, for the GOOD of ADAM, no to Cruse HIM personally. Eve also bore personal Chastisement for He part also. But i believe it was never to curse them , but to chasten them. IMO peace and love ……………..gene
GeneTechnically you are correct, the fact that God drove Adam and Eve out of the garden, so they and others could not eat of the tree of life, I kind of look as a curse, but you're right, there is no scripture for that.
Georg
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