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T8……Problem is the word God or elohim, does not just mean excedeling great, as the city of Nineveh was,
So you concede this point. That is progress. Anything else you need to be corrected with while we are at it?
Nick…….YES WE ARE TOLD NOT TO HAVE ANY GOD’S besides ME. The term god has a deffinite meaning right? Question is what is that meaning. The word God means NOT JUST POWER, BUT A POWER THAT YOU LEAN ON AND TRUST IN FOR HELP AND GUIDENCE. BASICALLY God is telling us not to put our “trust” in any power except him. He is not saying we cannot reconize other “powers” that they exist. By applying the word God’s to them he is saying, that “POWER” which you “LEAN ON AND “TRUST” IN” , he is not just saying a POWER alone, but a POWER YOU ARE CONNECTED WITH BY “TRUSTING” IN.
THAT CAN BE ANYTHING WHICH YOU “TRUST” IN, gold, money, governments, wives, childern, on and on it goes it is endless. If you give it or them POWER OVER YOUR LIFE, that is TO CONTROL IT , IT WILL “ACT” AS YOUR GOD. WHY because the word God does not just mean POWER, it must be A POWER connected with “FAITH” AND TRUST.
SO THE WORD God is a “RELATIVE” TERM. YOU CAN’T SAY THAT IS A God without that connection attached to the word,inorderfor it to qualify as a god, but does that qualify it as “TRUE” GOD, NO IT DOES NOT. AND if youbelieve what God himself said “he looked of other Gods and found “NONE”, Now if Go the Father can not find any, what makes you think we can? Jesus said plainly there is ONLY, ONE “TRUE” GOD. That statement is saying ALL OTHER “SO-CALLED” GOD’S ARE “FALSE” God’s.
The word GOD CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT A CONNECTION to the object it is refering to, ie , my God, their God, your God, the God of this , or the God of that, the LORD “our” God. The God of the Cananites ,the God of Isreal,and on and on it goes alway being “connected” with this thing or that thing. So the conclusion is, is it a “TRUE” GOD, OR A “FALSE” GOD To the “individual” himself. All true believers should not reconize any other GOD BUT THE “ONE” AND “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD. THE LORD IS OUR GOD and there is no other “TRUE” GOD , TO US that believe THAT IS. IMO
PEACE and love to you and yours. ………………..gene
T8……DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DRIVING AT. I HAVE ALWAYS SAID THE WORD GOD MEANT MORE THEN JUST AN OBJECT, IT IS THE “RELATIONSHIP” TO THAT OBJECT, THAT FITS THE MEANING OF THE WORD, IT’S IRELEVENT WHAT THE OBJECT IS,IT COULD EVEN BE AN ANT OR A TADPOLE, OR THE SUN which the EGYPTIANS NAMED RA or what ever, it doesent matter because it is not the object that is the meaning of GOD, IT IS THE “RELATIONSHIP” BEING INFERED WITH THAT OBJECT THAT MAKES IT A GOD TO THAT INDIDIDUAL PERSON. AS I HAVE SAID THE WORD GOD IS NOT TALKING ABOUT OR MEANING AN OBJECT, IT IS THE “REATIONSHIP” TO SOMETHING,THAT GIVES IT THE MEANING OF THE WORD GOD.
We are told not to have ANY OTHER GOD BUT THE ONE TRUE GOD, SO ALL OTHER SO CALLED GOD’S ARE “FALSE” THEY ARE NO GOD’S AT ALL TO US BUT THE ONE AND TRUE ONLY. Why because we do not have that “connected” relationship withthem so they can not be a GOD OF ANY KIND TO US, THEY ARE ALL UST “FALSE” MEANING NOT TRUE GOD’S. TO US THAT IS. THE WORD GOD IS NOT A PERSON PLACE OR THING, IT IS A “RELATIONSHIP” WITH SOMETHING, ANYTHING. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
T8……DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DRIVING AT. I HAVE ALWAYS SAID THE WORD GOD MEANT MORE THEN JUST AN OBJECT, IT IS THE “RELATIONSHIP” TO THAT OBJECT, THAT FITS THE MEANING OF THE WORD, IT’S IRELEVENT
Why have you bothered to engage me in a debate of sorts regarding my posts then? I have only ever said that too. Why cause unnecessary division or debate which wastes the time of al. I recommend that you make every effort to be in unity if you are to be considered a brother who cares about the rest of the Body.
I will check back on your posts and quote where you have challenged my teaching that ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ have other uses. I suspect you could be just taking this approach rather than admitting you were wrong. Hindsight is wonderful thing, but honesty is very good too.
So now that you admit that a city can be described as ‘elohim’, what about men or angels?
Think for one minute and you might get it. An elohim city is not saying that the city is God right. Thus when we read in scripture where Jesus said, “ye are theos” from the verse that says, “ye are elohim, ye are all sons of the Most High God”, or when angels are told, “worship Elohim all ye elohim”, then surely you can see that such verses are also not implying that certain men and angels are the true God. Far from it right.
There is one true God, while others and things can also be described as ‘elohim,theos’ without contradicting the truth that there is one true God who is over all and through all.
Obviously the word can be used to mean exceedingly great or mighty outside of the one true GOd context.
Do you admit that. If you cannot, then you have a contradiction to deal with. You have already conceded that a city can be describes as elohim.
How about an honest yes, the words ‘elohim’ and ‘theos’ have other legitimate uses.
Let’s take a look @genebalthrop at your misunderstanding. You said:
T8……if you say it have other uses by applying the term GOD TO THOSE THINGS, as having other meanings then you are changing the words meaning. That is what IDOLATRY is all about, right making or changing the image ofthe “only” true God. Right?
i have made the case for only one GOD, AND NOT ONLY ME BUT JESUS, AND GOD THE FATHER HAS ALSO. Now simple common sense should tell you if there is only one God then there can be only one word for a true GOD of any kind. T8 thinks an earthquake is ok to be called a God, how many other gods do you people know of, please tell me so i can understand your idolatarous connections.
Kerwin you can’t have it both ways, out of one side of your mouth you say there is only one GOD, AND OUT of the other side you have a unnumeral amount of so called GOD’S because the word god has all kinds of different meanings, but fail to say who they are, at least T8 admits he knows of an earthquake god, how about you
And Kerwin even had to remind you with these words:
I have told you multiple times that there is only one God. My patience has worn thin telling you and yet you choose not to believe. Instead you choose to accuse me falsely.
And now you admit that a city can be described as ‘elohim’. You have now admitted what we were saying is correct, that indeed ‘elohim can describe other things outside of the context of one true God. Are you humble enough to admit that we taught you something here, or will you continue to waste everyone’s time by hardening your heart and taking the stance that we are wrong and you are right regardless of the fact that you now concur of at least one differing use of ‘elohim’.
A hard heart and lack of acknowledgement will not help your walk with God one iota right?
T8……WHERE DID I ADMIT A CITY CAN BE A EHOLIM OF ANY KIND? You are still not getting what i said, i did not say an earthquake OR A CITY was a god, the word god is describing a “relationship” to something, it is not a person place or thing , it is THE RELATIONSHIP THE WORD GOD IS DESCRIBING. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DESCRIBING THE OBJECT ITSELF. IT IS “THE POWER YOU LEAN ON AND TRUST IN”. THAT RELATIONSHIP COULD BE TO THE SUN , MOON, EVEN AN ANT. BUT ARE THOSE THINGS “TRUE” GOD’S, NO THEY ARE NOT, TO ME THAT IS.
WHEN YOU COME PREACHING EARTHQUAKE and CITIES are GOD’S, JESUS IS A GOD, PEOPLE ARE GODS or ELOHIM’S, YOUR WRONG, THAT IS WHAT IDOLATRY IS. ANYONE WHO ACKNOWLEDGES FALSE GOD AS “TRUE” GOD’S ARE IDOLATAR’S. Why don’t you look up the word IDOLATRY, AND SEE WHAT IT MEANS AND APPLY THAT TO YOUR TEACHINGS. ANYTHING CAN BE A “False” GOD, BUT YOU ARE NOT CALLING THEM “FALSE” GOD’S, YOU ARE SAYING THEY ARE “REAL” GODS, IS THE WAY I SEE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. IF I AM MISTAKING I AM SORRY, BUT THAT WHAT YOU APPEAR TO BE SAYING TO ME.
YOU WANT TO BE HONEST?, THEN LETS BE HONEST, YOU NEED THAT TO MAKE Jesus appear as the “WORD” AS another GOD, TO FIT YOUR FALSE ASSUMPTION OF JOHN 1:1 , you need a preexisting “little” god of somekind to fit your theology. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ………………gene
Nick…….My knowing the ONLY “TRUE” GOD who is the FATHER, is not the problem here , trying to make other “TRUE” GOD’S IS THE PROBLEM. But you do have a point, it does to seem futile, it’s going no where.
peace and love to you and yours……………gene
Gene,
You did not answer my question. Do you agree that Merriam-Webster and other English language dictionaries are correct when they claim their is more than one definition for the word god?
T8……WHERE DID I ADMIT A CITY CAN BE A EHOLIM OF ANY KIND? You are still not getting what i said, i did not say an earthquake OR A CITY was a god, the word god is describing a “relationship” to something, it is not a person place or thing , it is THE RELATIONSHIP THE WORD GOD IS DESCRIBING. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DESCRIBING THE OBJECT ITSELF. IT IS “THE POWER YOU LEAN ON AND TRUST IN”. THAT RELATIONSHIP COULD BE TO THE SUN , MOON, EVEN AN ANT. BUT ARE THOSE THINGS “TRUE” GOD’S, NO THEY ARE NOT, TO ME THAT IS.
WHEN YOU COME PREACHING EARTHQUAKE and CITIES are GOD’S, JESUS IS A GOD, PEOPLE ARE GODS or ELOHIM’S, YOUR WRONG, THAT IS WHAT IDOLATRY IS. ANYONE WHO ACKNOWLEDGES FALSE GOD AS “TRUE” GOD’S ARE IDOLATAR’S.
But that is the point, no one is saying here that an earthquake or a city is a god, but that it just means exceedingly great like an exceedingly great or mighty city or even a mighty earthquake. Do you even read our posts, before you make such ridiculous statements that have nothing to do with what we are saying? Even kerwin asked you to refrain from bearing false witness regarding what he was saying.
Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, (the biggest in its heyday). Scripture uses the word ‘elohim’ to describe that city. It is not turning the city into a god and neither are we. Yes there is one true God, but if a city, person, or angel, is described with the term ‘elohim’ or ‘theos’, it doesn’t mean that they are false gods, rather that they are great or mighty. Being great or mighty whether it is a city, earthquake, or being, does not define any of these as a god, a false god, or a being that competes with the one true God.
If you cannot understand that, then I would suggest that you study more simple subjects that are within your range of understanding. Otherwise you are just wasting everyone’s time with your lack of knowledge and silly statements. Your level of debate and teaching does not bring learning or unity, and neither is it uplifting anyone to give God glory. it is simply bringing unnecessary discord and division for no good reason and you are wasting people’s precious time.
Stop bearing false witness regarding what we are teaching please.
Gene,
It is written in the book of Deuteronomy 10:17 that Moses said during his final speech that Jehovah god is god of gods. I am confident Moses was speaking the word of God in that speech.
In Psalms 82:6 is written that God claimed he said that the children of Israel were both gods and children of the most high.
In Deuteronomy 14:1 during the same speech Moses said that the Hebrew people were Jehovah’s children.
So yes, God did call the children of Israel both his children and gods.
kerwin, yes it is written, but in what sense were they gods though. As mighty or great ones, as the offspring of God who share his nature like Adam being the man of men for example, or what?
Kerwin……AS I have said over and over those other were “false” gods, they EXIHBITTED no GODLY TRAITES. DO YOU THINK A GLIDEN CALF FORMED BY ARON FOR THOSE ISRAELTES WAS A “TRUE” GOD? OR JUST A HUNCK OF GOLD FORMED INTO A GOLDEN CALF. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT WAS A TRUE GOD?, MOSES WAS JUST TELLING THEM THAT THE TRUE GOD WAS THE GOD OF THOSE “FALSE” GODS ALSO. Why do i know they were “FALSE” GODS, because GOD himself said he looked for other God’s and found “NONE” .,
ISA 44:6… Thus says the LORD THE KING OF ISRAEL, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and the last; and besides me there is ‘NO” GOD.
44:8……. FEAR YOU NOT, neither be afraid: have not i told you from that time, and have declared it? You are my witnesses, is there a God BESIDE ME? yea, there is “NO” God; I (GOD) KNOW “NOT ANY”.
WHAT PART OF THOSE SCRIPTURES YOU PEOPLE DON’T BELIEVE?
Kerwin can’t you and T8 make your understandings work around what our “ONLY” GOD HAS SAID, thats the question here. IMO
peace and love to you all and yours…………………gene
T8…….THEY were GOD POSSESIONS he was there heavenly FATHER, the same as we are, we belong to him, just as it says he sent his word to HIS OWN, it is said in a possessive sense, not that they were themselves a God of anykind. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……………….gene
@t8,
kerwin, yes it is written, but in what sense were they gods though. As mighty or great ones, as the offspring of God who share his nature like Adam being the man of men for example, or what?
Psalm 82:5-7Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
5 They know not, neither will they understand;
they walk on in darkness:
all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men,
and fall like one of the princes.Their behavior was superior to human behavior. It also goes with the context of Deuteronomy 10:17 and 14:1. The princes fell from heaven because of their sin.</p>
Gene,
I am not seeing the answer to my question. This is the third time I am mentioning it. Do you agree with dictionaries that the English word god has more than one definition?
T8…….THEY were GOD POSSESIONS he was there heavenly FATHER, the same as we are, we belong to him, just as it says he sent his word to HIS OWN, it is said in a possessive sense, not that they were themselves a God of anykind. IMO
Then quit debating me over this. I am not saying that we go around calling men, angels, earthquakes, or cities as a god or God.
Next time read my posts properly and if you cannot be bothered, then do not reply to me as if you understand what I am saying. This is common sense Gene. If you are going to reply to my posts, make sure you know what I am talking about first. Otherwise you start to venture into ‘bearing false witness’ territory. Please do this for yourself if you care not for me and others.
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