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Hello all,
Much is made about the term “monogenes theos” in John 1:18. Some on here don't even translate “monogenes” when they recite the verse that it is found in. They just say “monogenes….” Of course, I don't think that the word “only” is giving us the fullness of the term. The Greek word “monos” is where we get “only” and if John meant “the only one” he could have used “monos” as he did 10 times in the Book of John. So, I do believe that “only begotten God” is the best translation of “monogenes theos” but that is not what I want to focus on in this topic.Here is John 1:18 in a few translations that agree with theos (god) and not huios (son) as the correct Greek word in the original Greek text.
Quote John 1:18 NET ©
No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.NIV ©
No-one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.NASB ©
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.This verse is loaded with important truths but only a couple of things seem to get discussed, i.e. what “monogenes” means and that no one has ever seen God. That represents only half of this verse though.
Let's look at each phrase as we see it in the above translations:
No one has ever seen God/No one has seen God at any time
The only one, himself God/God the One and Only/the only begotten God
who is in closest fellowship with the Father/who is at the Father's side/who is in the bosom of the Father,
has made God known/has made him known/He has explained Him.
This verse is talking about Jesus. Read the context:
Quote 1:14 Now 34 the Word became flesh 35 and took up residence 36 among us. We 37 saw his glory – the glory of the one and only, 38 full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. 1:15 John 39 testified 40 about him and shouted out, 41 “This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, 42 because he existed before me.’” 1:16 For we have all received from his fullness one gracious gift after another. 43 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but 44 grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ. 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only one, 45 himself God, who is in closest fellowship with 46 the Father, has made God 47 known. 48 So, Jesus Christ is the God that is with the Father God in some way, whether He is in the Father's bosom, or in the closest fellowship with the Father, or at the Father's side.
Jesus is not the Father,
Jesus is not a plan in this verse,
Jesus is the only God that explains the Father God.Think about it.
KathiQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2010,19:09) Hi LU,
Is this in all the manuscripts?
No. Only begotten Son is in some.
So Nick, shall we flip a coin to find out which one is correct, “God” or “son.”John begins his book with a “God” with “God” concept and near the end John quotes Thomas as saying “My Lord and my God.”
A couple of time, John calls Jesus the only begotten Son.
So, we know that the NET translators concluded that the term in John 1:18 is “God” and not “Son.”
It can't be both, it is either “God” or “Son.”
If it is “God” then that verse is extremely significant. It is one of those questions that we take to the Father for wisdom.
Have you asked Him, Nick? Has He answered you? If so, how.
LU
A couple of time, John calls Jesus the only begotten Son.
So, we know that the NET translators concluded that the term in John 1:18 is “God” and not “Son.”
It can't be both, it is either “God” or “Son.”
If it is “God” then that verse is extremely significant. It is one of those questions that we take to the Father for wisdom.
Have you asked Him, Nick? Has He answered you? If so, how.
LU
is this in Jn1;18 represent the entire scriptures view or is this your vision out of the context of the scriptures,
in this case it is of NO importance.Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 28 2010,11:26) John begins his book with a “God” with “God” concept and near the end John quotes Thomas as saying “My Lord and my God.”
Hi again Kathi,And even closer to the end of John he says:
Quote 30Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31But these are written that you may[a] believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. the Christ, the Son of God
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2010,19:56) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 28 2010,11:26) John begins his book with a “God” with “God” concept and near the end John quotes Thomas as saying “My Lord and my God.”
Hi again Kathi,And even closer to the end of John he says:
Quote 30Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31But these are written that you may[a] believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. the Christ, the Son of God
peace and love,
mike
Mike,
And the Begotten God would be a Son of God.Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 27 2010,19:47) LU A couple of time, John calls Jesus the only begotten Son.
So, we know that the NET translators concluded that the term in John 1:18 is “God” and not “Son.”
It can't be both, it is either “God” or “Son.”
If it is “God” then that verse is extremely significant. It is one of those questions that we take to the Father for wisdom.
Have you asked Him, Nick? Has He answered you? If so, how.
LU
is this in Jn1;18 represent the entire scriptures view or is this your vision out of the context of the scriptures,
in this case it is of NO importance.
terraricca,Be careful not to diminish scripture because you have trouble with it. Do not call what is good…evil and do not call what is evil…good. I am just presenting God's word and encouraging other's to seek wisdom from God, not from myself or others.
To whoever is interested
Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
If Jesus was God, this scripture would not be true.
Jesus is the only begotten SON of God, not the only begotten god. Why does it say “ONLY” begotten? Col. 1:15; because everything else was created trough the ONLY begotten, Col. 1:16.
He is in the bosom of the Father, what does that mean? how does any one feel about his first born? he is very much loved by the Father, that's what.
If the son, Jesus, was god, are all the angels god's too? they are all sons of God, Job 38:7.
Jesus did not come to show us the Father, he came to reveal, to declare him to us; among other things.Georg
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 27 2010,21:04) To whoever is interested Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
If Jesus was God, this scripture would not be true.
Jesus is the only begotten SON of God, not the only begotten god. Why does it say “ONLY” begotten? Col. 1:15; because everything else was created trough the ONLY begotten, Col. 1:16.
He is in the bosom of the Father, what does that mean? how does any one feel about his first born? he is very much loved by the Father, that's what.
If the son, Jesus, was god, are all the angels god's too? they are all sons of God, Job 38:7.
Jesus did not come to show us the Father, he came to reveal, to declare him to us; among other things.Georg
Georg,I think that you, Georg can not see God as having a literal Son. If you could see God as having a literal Son, then you could see that His Son would be like Him as we do, in fact, see throughout the NT.
The Son of God in John 1:18 is an only begotten, not a first begotten. The category that the only Son of God is in, is made up of one. Don't get confused with the other “sons” of God, they are in different categories than the “only Son of God.”
None of the sons of God have the nature of God except the “only Son of God.”
So, I encourage you to open your understanding of what God can do (like have a literal Son) and what a begotten God would be like (full of grace and truth, the exact representation of the nature of His Father, etc.). Give it a chance Georg.
Think about it Georg, if the scripture does mean to say only begotten God and you say it cannot say that, then you are calling what is good evil. That would be a serious offense. I encourage you not to be so absolute in your own understanding.
Kathi
LU
Posted: Feb. 28 2010,12:05
——————————————————————————–
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 27 2010,19:47)
LUA couple of time, John calls Jesus the only begotten Son.
So, we know that the NET translators concluded that the term in John 1:18 is “God” and not “Son.”
It can't be both, it is either “God” or “Son.”
If it is “God” then that verse is extremely significant. It is one of those questions that we take to the Father for wisdom.
Have you asked Him, Nick? Has He answered you? If so, how.
LU
is this in Jn1;18 represent the entire scriptures view or is this your vision out of the context of the scriptures,
in this case it is of NO importance.terraricca,
Be careful not to diminish scripture because you have trouble with it. Do not call what is good…evil and do not call what is evil…good. I am just presenting God's word and encouraging other's to seek wisdom from God, not from myself or others.
did you read correctly what i said??
unless what you are try to define, as to be in according to the entire spirit of the scriptures or it would only be your opinion,
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2010,11:47) LU A couple of time, John calls Jesus the only begotten Son.
So, we know that the NET translators concluded that the term in John 1:18 is “God” and not “Son.”
It can't be both, it is either “God” or “Son.”
If it is “God” then that verse is extremely significant. It is one of those questions that we take to the Father for wisdom.
Have you asked Him, Nick? Has He answered you? If so, how.
LU
is this in Jn1;18 represent the entire scriptures view or is this your vision out of the context of the scriptures,
in this case it is of NO importance.
Hi LU,
If it is God then of course he is not the God of the Jews because he told them the Father is. And of course Jesus called men gods so none of them is Almighty God are they and you are not offering that we should worship them because he said that are you?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2010,22:51) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2010,11:47) LU A couple of time, John calls Jesus the only begotten Son.
So, we know that the NET translators concluded that the term in John 1:18 is “God” and not “Son.”
It can't be both, it is either “God” or “Son.”
If it is “God” then that verse is extremely significant. It is one of those questions that we take to the Father for wisdom.
Have you asked Him, Nick? Has He answered you? If so, how.
LU
is this in Jn1;18 represent the entire scriptures view or is this your vision out of the context of the scriptures,
in this case it is of NO importance.
Hi LU,
If it is God then of course he is not the God of the Jews because he told them the Father is. And of course Jesus called men gods so none of them is Almighty God are they and you are not offering that we should worship them because he said that are you?
Hi Nick,
Where did Jesus call men “gods?”Are you referring to this statement made by Jesus:
John 10:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
35 “If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
NASUThe “he” is not Jesus in v. 35.
You said:
Quote And of course Jesus called men gods so none of them is Almighty God are they and you are not offering that we should worship them because he said that are you? There are no other gods/Gods that are said to be begotten. There is only one begotten God if the Greek word in v. 18 is “theos” and that only begotten God is in the bosom of God the Father.
We certainly do not worship any created gods.
Hi LU,
He is like his Father because his Father was in him speaking and doing the miraculous works.Do you think he was another God doing his own miracles?[Acts 10.38]
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 27 2010,22:28) LU Posted: Feb. 28 2010,12:05
——————————————————————————–
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 27 2010,19:47)
LUA couple of time, John calls Jesus the only begotten Son.
So, we know that the NET translators concluded that the term in John 1:18 is “God” and not “Son.”
It can't be both, it is either “God” or “Son.”
If it is “God” then that verse is extremely significant. It is one of those questions that we take to the Father for wisdom.
Have you asked Him, Nick? Has He answered you? If so, how.
LU
is this in Jn1;18 represent the entire scriptures view or is this your vision out of the context of the scriptures,
in this case it is of NO importance.terraricca,
Be careful not to diminish scripture because you have trouble with it. Do not call what is good…evil and do not call what is evil…good. I am just presenting God's word and encouraging other's to seek wisdom from God, not from myself or others.
did you read correctly what i said??
unless what you are try to define, as to be in according to the entire spirit of the scriptures or it would only be your opinion,
terraricca,If my view does not line up with God's view, then my view is certainly not important. On the other hand, if my view does line up with God's view then it is important.
You have to seek God on this:
Does the term “Only Begotten Son of God” mean the same thing as the term “Only Begotten God?”
Consider this, when Adam and Eve gave birth to Cain, Cain was the “only begotten son of man”…right? That would have made Cain “the only begotten man” at the time since Abel wasn't born yet and Adam and Eve were created and not begotten. Cain certainly wouldn't have been an only begotten demi-man, he would be fully man.
terraricca, if you want to learn how to quote posts and make your posts clearer, you can go practice in the “testing posts” section at the top of the forum. It could help people follow along with your thinking. Just follow this link and read what Not3in1 says.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….6;st=40
If I can help, let me know.
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Feb. 27 2010,23:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2010,22:51) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2010,11:47) LU A couple of time, John calls Jesus the only begotten Son.
So, we know that the NET translators concluded that the term in John 1:18 is “God” and not “Son.”
It can't be both, it is either “God” or “Son.”
If it is “God” then that verse is extremely significant. It is one of those questions that we take to the Father for wisdom.
Have you asked Him, Nick? Has He answered you? If so, how.
LU
is this in Jn1;18 represent the entire scriptures view or is this your vision out of the context of the scriptures,
in this case it is of NO importance.
Hi LU,
If it is God then of course he is not the God of the Jews because he told them the Father is. And of course Jesus called men gods so none of them is Almighty God are they and you are not offering that we should worship them because he said that are you?
Hi Nick,
Where did Jesus call men “gods?”Are you referring to this statement made by Jesus:
John 10:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
35 “If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
NASUThe “he” is not Jesus in v. 35.
You said:
Quote And of course Jesus called men gods so none of them is Almighty God are they and you are not offering that we should worship them because he said that are you? There are no other gods/Gods that are said to be begotten. There is only one begotten God if the Greek word in v. 18 is “theos” and that only begotten God is in the bosom of God the Father.
We certainly do not worship any created gods.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 27 2010,23:34) The “he” is not Jesus in v. 35.
Hi KathiCorrect. That is another one of the scriptures used to disprove the Deity of Jesus or to promote that YHWH or Jesus is promoting Polytheism.
The “he” is actually the Psalmist Asaph speaking in Pss 82, and it is a rebuke, for though he “Asaph” called them “mighty ones” ('elohiym) he said they will die like men.
Jesus is rebuking the Jews for their Hypocrosy for wanting to stone him for saying he was the Son of God, when in their “own Law” the scriptures that cannot be broken it says “I (Asaph) said ye are gods to whom the word of God came.
In no way is Jesus saying that we should call other being gods, for Jesus knew the Hebrew scriptures which say…
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: “before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me“. Isa 43:10
And…
And in all [things] that I have said unto you be circumspect: and “make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth“. Ex 23:13
Yet we see Thomas calling Jesus his Lord and God without correction or rebuke by John or Jesus and the other Apostles also calling Jesus God as well as many of the forefathers.
Blessings WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2010,23:36) Hi LU,
He is like his Father because his Father was in him speaking and doing the miraculous works.Do you think he was another God doing his own miracles?[Acts 10.38]
Nick,
He is not “another” God. He is an only Begotten God. An “only” cannot be an “another.” He did nothing on His own initiative. The Father is not a Begotten God. The Son is a Begotten God according to this verse John 1:18 if the Greek word is “theos.”Adam wasn't a begotten man
Cain was a begotten man.
Both were men but they weren't each other. One was the father and one was the son.The Father wasn't a begotten God.
The Son was a Begotten God.
Both are God but they aren't each other. One is the Father and one is the Son.Hi LU,
So you say but you rely on some manuscripts.
Why do you use a capital G if he is not the God of Israel?
For US there is only one God as we, like Israel, are monotheisticKathi
What is the nature of God?
Jhn 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
What is the nature of angels? are they not spirit?
Hbr 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
The seed/nature of Abraham, flesh.
If Jesus is an only begotten, can he be anything else but the first begotten?(Think about it Georg, if the scripture does mean to say only begotten God and you say it cannot say that,)
The scriptures not only mean to say that, they “DO” say that, and were did I say ,”it cannot say that”?
Let me ask you this, how did all the angels come into existence?
What do you mean by “literal” son?Georg
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 27 2010,21:04) To whoever is interested Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
If Jesus was God, this scripture would not be true.
Jesus is the only begotten SON of God, not the only begotten god. Why does it say “ONLY” begotten? Col. 1:15; because everything else was created trough the ONLY begotten, Col. 1:16.
He is in the bosom of the Father, what does that mean? how does any one feel about his first born? he is very much loved by the Father, that's what.
If the son, Jesus, was god, are all the angels god's too? they are all sons of God, Job 38:7.
Jesus did not come to show us the Father, he came to reveal, to declare him to us; among other things.Georg
Here Georg is where you say that it doesn't say “only begotten God.”
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