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Hi,
We have the choice of continuing to live in Adam or in Christ.
The second choice supplies a new body and demands complete inner renovation.Hi,
The plan of God is the salvation of our SOUL.
The OLD body is just a tent for the sons of the resurrection.1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Nick said:
Quote The OLD MAN is of the first ADAM.
Earth into which God breathed.
It cannot inherit the kingdom.Nick,
You are one confused dude! The old man of Romans 6 was identified as Israel's first husband in chapter 7. Romans was not written to Gentiles. It was written to Jewish Christians.Nick said:
Quote We have the choice of continuing to live in Adam or in Christ.
The second choice supplies a new body and demands complete inner renovation.Adam was never called Israel's husband. Moses was Israel's first husband and Christ was Israel's second husband. The “old man” was Israel's first husband. The old man had nothing to do with Gentiles then or has anything to do with anybody now.
Furthermore, in terms of the covenant only Israel's lineage goes all the way back to Adam. The lineage of the Gentiles stops with Cain. Therefore, the expression “in Adam” referred to Israel alone.
thinker
Hitt,
Yes it is written to the body of Christ drawn from Jew and gentile.Rom7 does not mention Israel but rather the law.
The Law covenant was surpassed by the new marriage covenant between Christ and his church.
Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.The law became dead to them and so they were free to become married to Christ.
That law could not deal with sin in the flesh but only sins as they were committed and forgiveness was only accessible once a year through the high Priest.Flesh of earth is the home of sin in the flesh, which is owned by the god of this world, and we cannot be finally rid of such sin till we are rid of flesh.
Rom7
” 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”
Nick said:
Quote Yes it is written to the body of Christ drawn from Jew and gentile. Romans was written to Jewish Christians. First, Paul explicitly said that he was speaking to those who “know the law” (Rom. 7:1). The Gentiles did not have the law so Paul could not have been writing to them. Second, Paul wrote to Christians who had been under the Mosaic code. The Gentiles were never under the Moses at any time.
Quote The Law covenant was surpassed by the new marriage covenant between Christ and his church. Christ's church was made up of Israelites only. The Gentiles came in to salvation after Christ finished building His church.
thinker
Hi TT,
The body of Christ is one.
It is no longer comprised of jew and gentile or greek.Christ is one body
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.It is known as the church but each assembly also has that name
Romans 16:4
Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.1 Corinthians 10:32
Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:Revelation 1:20
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.Quote (SEEKING @ Feb. 28 2009,03:36) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 27 2009,08:43) I know that some of you may be seething for my saying these things. But many Christians have been misguided into thinking that their supposed “sinful nature” was put to death and they end up feeling defeated because their lives don't match up with it.
Thinker,I hasten to endorse your admonition that we be aware of who various commands, concepts, laws, etc. are directed to when reading and considering the word lest we misapply or misunderstand.
There is comfort, challenge, and hope in these scriptures
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. (Gal.5:16-25)
That must be kept in balance with Paul's other words –
Rom 7:15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.
But even Paul lost sight, momentarily of His source of salvation. Rather than dwell there, he came to his senses and found his victory.
Rom 7:24-25 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Rom 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
Words true for eternity! No condemnation, set free.
Even in my weak times.There is an old saying that comes to mind that goes something like, ” Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.” There is to much wisdom in things like “The Sermon On The Mount, Proverbs, etal. for me to disregard them because they were not directed to me.
A statement may not be directed to me, but I will respond regardless. If I hear the fella in a foxhole next to me yell to his companion, “Duck, grenade” I”M DUCKING.
There can be purpose for us in words to others, I believe –
Rom 15:4 For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
Seeking
Greetings Seeking…..Are there really carnal individuals who actually embody all the gifts of the spirit and live a sin free existance….For we all short of the glory of God and for that reason we need a savior…The law was not abolished..Jesus came to full fill law not abolish it….The cross afords carnal man the licence to claim salvation through the sacrafice of Gods only begotton son Jesus….This claim is legitmised through repentance and embracing of the law….Thedorej……….I agree (the) law is not done with they are fulfilled by the Holy Spirit given us in our Hearts and minds. while Law (forced compliance ) has be done away with , (THE) Law ie, ten commandments, Have not been done away with. We actually become them through the operation of GOD”s Spirit. The commandments are eternal, they are Spirit and must be fulfilled through the Spirit not through the flesh.
love and peace to you and yours……………………………………..gene
Hi TJ,
You say
“The cross afords carnal man the licence to claim salvation through the sacrafice of Gods only begotton son Jesus….This claim is legitmised through repentance and embracing of the law…. “Where is this new way of salvation written?
Is it shown in ACTS?Quote (theodorej @ Mar. 01 2009,08:49)
You've got me confused friend. Where does my post infer that there are those who,Quote …..Are there really carnal individuals who actually embody all the gifts of the spirit and live a sin free existance….For we all short of the glory of God and for that reason we need a savior.. My post does talk of the fruit of the Spirit possible in the believer walking with God but cautions that we must keep a balance and remeber from where our salvation comes.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. (Gal.5:16-25)
That must be kept in balance with Paul's other words –
Rom 7:15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.
But even Paul lost sight, momentarily of His source of salvation. Rather than dwell there, he came to his senses and found his victory.
Rom 7:24-25 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Quote
Greetings Seeking.The law was not abolished..Jesus came to full fill law not abolish it….Yes, and the word states further, for our encouragement –
For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Blessings,
Seeking
Hi S,
And sin in the flesh knew that it's time was up.
Matthew 8:29
And they cried out, saying, ” What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”Mark 1:24
saying, ” What business do we have with each other, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are– the Holy One of God!”Luke 4:34
“Let us alone! What business do we have with each other, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are– the Holy One of God!”Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 01 2009,14:05) Hi S,
And sin in the flesh knew that it's time was up.
Matthew 8:29
And they cried out, saying, ” What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”Mark 1:24
saying, ” What business do we have with each other, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are– the Holy One of God!”Luke 4:34
“Let us alone! What business do we have with each other, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are– the Holy One of God!”
Nick,Jesus was victorious then wasn't He. And He still is!
Amen!!
To all,
The Scriptures do not say that our sin nature was put to death. It says that we are to do this ourselves. Therefore, the “old man” in Romans 6 cannot be our sin nature because that man was crucified with Christ. We don't do this ourselves.Again, the “old man” in Romans 6 was Israel's first husband (Moses, the law).
thinker
Hi TT,
Where does it say we must put our sin nature to death?
Sin in the flesh can only fully release us at physical death and we are not to kill ourselves.Romans 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.We need to be baptised into Christ's death to be made alive in him.
Rom6
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.Paul knew no good thing was of his flesh which has no future and he wanted to be freed from it
Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.Nick asked:
Quote Where does it say we must put our sin nature to death? Quote Therefore, put to death your members which are of the earth (Colossians 3:5). and,
Quote They that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires (Galatians 5:24) The “old man” cannot be the sin nature for that man was crucified with Christ. We did not put that man to death. That “man” was Israel's first husband. Many Christians have been misled into thinking that the “old man” is their sin nature and that it was automatically put to death in Christ. But when they find that their lives don't match up they get discouraged. The solution to their depression is simple. Their sin natures are alive and well and they must put their sin natures to death themselves. They must distinguish between the “old man” and their sin natures.
The former was Moses, Israel's first husband and died once for all with Christ. The latter is the flesh and must be crucified daily.
thinker
Hi TT,
No Jesus was crucified.
In water baptism we too can die with him even though the body of earth owned by earth yet lives.[mt6]
As gentiles we were never wedded previously to any covenant.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2009,05:47) Hi TT,
No Jesus was crucified.
In water baptism we too can die with him even though the body of earth owned by earth yet lives.[mt6]
As gentiles we were never wedded previously to any covenant.
Huh?thinker
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