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Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2010,17:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2010,17:01) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2010,16:02) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2010,15:51) HI ALL need explanation;the scriptures says “no man can see God and live” is this true??
if it is true,how did he create man in the first place
if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them???
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,right
any comments???
Hi terraricca,Explanation: The Most High God cannot be seen and the seer live. The Most High God cannot become a man. The Most High God cannot die. Those statements are true, imo. That is why a literal Son was begotten who is of the same nature as His Father, yet, the Son can do all of the above. They are two different persons within one Godhead.
Only the Most High God had no beginning.
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2010,16:02) Hi terraricca, Explanation: The Most High God cannot be seen and the seer live. The Most High God cannot become a man.
So Jesus a begotten god can?So Jesus is greater than the Father because he could come in the likeness of sinful flesh but the Father couldn't?
So the Father cannot take on a different form without being an Angel or a man?
Moses said he saw God's back side! Do you believe his report?
I thought that all things are possible with God?
Blessings WJ
Keith,You asked:
Quote So Jesus a begotten god can? Well, Jesus is God as the Son of God, and He did…so, yes!
Quote So Jesus is greater than the Father because he could come in the likeness of sinful flesh but the Father couldn't? No, Jesus is not greater.
The Most High God cannot die…I don't believe creation could remain intact if He were dead for a second but that is just my opinion.
Could He appear as a man or an angel? Maybe but He wouldn't become a man or an angel. Appearance as something is different than actually becoming that something, in the spiritual realm, I would think.
Angels appear as men but aren't. So, I would think that God could appear as a man if that was necessary. Whether or not it was necessary, I don't know.
Yes, I believe that Moses saw God's back side. Whether or not it was God as the Son, or the Most High God, I would have to review it.
Kathi
KathiFist of all Jesus was “The resurrection and the life” and had “eternal life” for he was the “Eternal life”!
The Spirit of Jesus did not die! The Body without the spirit is dead! (James 2:22) That is proven in scriptures!
Secondly, if you say what Moses seen was Jesus, then either way it shows Jesus as God for the one that Moses saw was “YWHW”!
Blessings WJ
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2010,15:10) lu if it is true,how did he create man in the first place
if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them???
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,right
TRY TO ANSWER ONE BY ONE AND TRY TO GIVE ME THEREASONS WHY OF YOUR ANSWER.
Hi Terraricca,Great questions! Let's look at them one at a time. First here is my explanation that you are referring to:
Quote Hi terraricca, Explanation: The Most High God cannot be seen and the seer live. The Most High God cannot become a man. The Most High God cannot die. Those statements are true, imo. That is why a literal Son was begotten who is of the same nature as His Father, yet, the Son can do all of the above. They are two different persons within one Godhead.
Only the Most High God had no beginning.
Kathi
Your most recent questions-here, one at a time:
Quote
if it is true,how did he create man in the first placeTerraricca, would you tell me what “it” is in your question. I believe that, at the time man was created, the Godhead was made up of the Most High God and His Son. Scriptures tell us that it was through the Son that all things came into being and that all things are from the Father. The Father was the source and the Son was the one the Father established the creation of the man through.
Gen 1:26-27
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
NASUQuote if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them?? Are you referring to this passage:
Ex 33:20-23
20 But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!”
21 Then the Lord said, “Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock;
22 and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.
23 “Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen.”
NASUMy opinion on this passage is that the speaker is God the Father, the source of all things and the back is of God the Father. I do not believe that this is the Son of God here.
Quote if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help??? Again, my opinion is that the Son of God, the second (of two) person of the Godhead who is not the Most High God of the Godhead (that would be His Father) depended on His Father (not because He was weak, but because He was perfect and wise) even before He came as a man. While He was a man on earth, He had become just like a man who is even more dependent on the Father than ever. While the Son was on earth as a man, He was restricted to the limits of a regular human being.
Phil 2:6-11
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
NASUQuote if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,right Now this is an important part. You say that only God has no beginning but I would say that only the “Most High God” had no beginning. His literal Son, as God, was begotten and that means He came into being and didn't always exist. He wouldn't be a literal Son before creation if He had no beginning, imo.
Does that help?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2010,18:38) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2010,17:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2010,17:01) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2010,16:02) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2010,15:51) HI ALL need explanation;the scriptures says “no man can see God and live” is this true??
if it is true,how did he create man in the first placeif Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them???
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,right
any comments???
Hi terraricca,Explanation: The Most High God cannot be seen and the seer live. The Most High God cannot become a man. The Most High God cannot die. Those statements are true, imo. That is why a literal Son was begotten who is of the same nature as His Father, yet, the Son can do all of the above. They are two different persons within one Godhead.
Only the Most High God had no beginning.
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2010,16:02) Hi terraricca, Explanation: The Most High God cannot be seen and the seer live. The Most High God cannot become a man.
So Jesus a begotten god can?So Jesus is greater than the Father because he could come in the likeness of sinful flesh but the Father couldn't?
So the Father cannot take on a different form without being an Angel or a man?
Moses said he saw God's back side! Do you believe his report?
I thought that all things are possible with God?
Blessings WJ
Keith,You asked:
Quote So Jesus a begotten god can? Well, Jesus is God as the Son of God, and He did…so, yes!
Quote So Jesus is greater than the Father because he could come in the likeness of sinful flesh but the Father couldn't? No, Jesus is not greater.
The Most High God cannot die…I don't believe creation could remain intact if He were dead for a second but that is just my opinion.
Could He appear as a man or an angel? Maybe but He wouldn't become a man or an angel. Appearance as something is different than actually becoming that something, in the spiritual realm, I would think.
Angels appear as men but aren't. So, I would think that God could appear as a man if that was necessary. Whether or not it was necessary, I don't know.
Yes, I believe that Moses saw God's back side. Whether or not it was God as the Son, or the Most High God, I would have to review it.
Kathi
KathiFist of all Jesus was “The resurrection and the life” and had “eternal life” for he was the “Eternal life”!
The Spirit of Jesus did not die! The Body without the spirit is dead! (James 2:22) That is proven in scriptures!
Secondly, if you say what Moses seen was Jesus, then either way it shows Jesus as God for the one that Moses saw was “YWHW”!
Blessings WJ
Hi Keith,You said:
Quote First of all Jesus was “The resurrection and the life” and had “eternal life” for he was the “Eternal life”! Eternal life was given Him. He became eternal life.
John 5:26
26 “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
NASUQuote The Spirit of Jesus did not die! The Body without the spirit is dead! (James 2:22) That is proven in scriptures! As I understand it, the spirits of even the non-believers do not die when the body dies but someday their spirit may be destroyed, that happens after judgement day. The bodies do die however and the Son's body did die, it did not decay though.
Quote Secondly, if you say what Moses seen was Jesus, then either way it shows Jesus as God for the one that Moses saw was “YWHW”! I didn't ever say that the God Moses saw was Jesus. I do believe that the Son came in the name of Yahweh, though, during the OT times.
My opinion,
KathiHi LU,
It is a popular opinion.
But i do not believe the one we are to follow had a head start by getting a preview.LU
THOSE ARE MY ANSWERS;
——————————————————————————–
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2010,15:10)
lu
“IT”=no man can see God and live” is this true??if it is true,how did he create man in the first place
if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them???
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,right
TRY TO ANSWER ONE BY ONE AND TRY TO GIVE ME THEREASONS WHY OF YOUR ANSWER.
Hi Terraricca,
Great questions! Let's look at them one at a time. First here is my explanation that you are referring to:
Quote
Hi terraricca,Explanation: The Most High God cannot be seen and the seer live. The Most High God cannot become a man. The Most High God cannot die. Those statements are true, imo. That is why a literal Son was begotten who is of the same nature as His Father, yet, the Son can do all of the above. They are two different persons within one Godhead.
Only the Most High God had no beginning.
Kathi
lu' YOU HAVE ANSWERED ME WITH YOUR OPINION NOT SCRIPTURES ,SO YOUR ANSWER CANNOT STAND AS TRUTH,
Your most recent questions-here, one at a time:
Quoteif it is true,how did he create man in the first place
Terraricca, would you tell me what “it” is in your question. I believe that, at the time man was created, the Godhead was made up of the Most High God and His Son. Scriptures tell us that it was through the Son that all things came into being and that all things are from the Father. The Father was the source and the Son was the one the Father established the creation of the man through.
Gen 1:26-27
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
NASULU;LOOK AT THE BEGINNING IT WAS A QUESTION
Quote
if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them??Are you referring to this passage:
Ex 33:20-23
20 But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!”
21 Then the Lord said, “Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock;
22 and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.
23 “Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen.”
NASUMy opinion on this passage is that the speaker is God the Father, the source of all things and the back is of God the Father. I do not believe that this is the Son of God here.
LU;YES TO THE FIRST PART,THE SECOND PART YOU HAVE ANSWERED WITH YOUR OPINION THIS IS NOT A SCRIPTURE SO YOUR ANSWER CANNOT STAND AS TRUTH.
Quote
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???Again, my opinion is that the Son of God, the second (of two) person of the Godhead who is not the Most High God of the Godhead (that would be His Father) depended on His Father (not because He was weak, but because He was perfect and wise) even before He came as a man. While He was a man on earth, He had become just like a man who is even more dependent on the Father than ever. While the Son was on earth as a man, He was restricted to the limits of a regular human being.
Phil 2:6-11
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
NASULU; THE SCRIPTURES YOU QUOTE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT WHAT CHRIST ATTITUDE AND HIS REWARD FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE;
SO YOUR ANSWER RELY S ONLY ON YOUR ASSUMPTION THAT THERE IS TWO GODS IN ONE,AND SO NON SCRIPTURAL AND SO YOUR ANSWER CANNOT STAND AS TRUTH.
Quote
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,rightNow this is an important part. You say that only God has no beginning but I would say that only the “Most High God” had no beginning. His literal Son, as God, was begotten and that means He came into being and didn't always exist. He wouldn't be a literal Son before creation if He had no beginning, imo.
LU
THE SCRITURES TELL THAT GOD HAS NO BEGINNING NOT ME;BUT YOUR ANSWER START BY SAYING “I”
“WOULD SAY”SO YOUR ANSWER IS YOUR OPINION ,THERE FOR NOT IN SCRIPTURES ,SO YOUR ANSWER CAN NOT STAND AS TRUTH.Does that help?
Edited by Lightenup on Feb. 20 2010,14:12
LU;
YOU ASK ME IF THAT HELPS?
THINK IF I WOULD ACCEPT AND FALLOW YOUR WAY OF THINKING I WOULD LEAVE THE TRUTH OF GOD ,TO FALLOW YOUR OPINIONS AND BY DOING THAT RECEIVE THE CURSE OF GOD ON ME.TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BE LED BY THE SPIRIT (OF UNDERSTANDING GODS WILL)NOT BY OPINIONS
BY MARE MEN THOUGHTS,
SO NO YOU DID NOT HELP ME.Group: Regular Members
Posts: 2191
Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: Feb. 20 2010,14:30Hi LU,
There is no binity godhead in scripture.What does godhead mean in this context, something different to how the KJV uses it?
A traditional adapted meaning perhaps?Nick,
LU is hedging her bets.She thinks she is Worshipping the Father AND the Son but doesn't know what 'Worship' is!
I have explained all to her but it makes no difference (Wonder of wonders, has anyone learned anything from all these postings – has anyone altered their thinking?)
For me, I have gained so much knowledge I wonder what I had been reading and uderstanding before?
There are some here who are Earth bound in their thinking and will never learn because they fear being in the Spirit, they prefer being in the Flesh. They don't Want to understand that they need to be 'Born Again' in the Spirit, see God's 'Word', in both senses, by and through God's Holy Spirit and then all things will become clear and they will know God's Truth.
Then, the adversary will not be able to assail them (as long as they remain In The Truth – we are sinners and still subject to falling away!)
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 20 2010,02:41) LU THOSE ARE MY ANSWERS;
——————————————————————————–
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2010,15:10)
lu
“IT”=no man can see God and live” is this true??if it is true,how did he create man in the first place
if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them???
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,right
TRY TO ANSWER ONE BY ONE AND TRY TO GIVE ME THEREASONS WHY OF YOUR ANSWER.
Hi Terraricca,
Great questions! Let's look at them one at a time. First here is my explanation that you are referring to:
Quote
Hi terraricca,Explanation: The Most High God cannot be seen and the seer live. The Most High God cannot become a man. The Most High God cannot die. Those statements are true, imo. That is why a literal Son was begotten who is of the same nature as His Father, yet, the Son can do all of the above. They are two different persons within one Godhead.
Only the Most High God had no beginning.
Kathi
lu' YOU HAVE ANSWERED ME WITH YOUR OPINION NOT SCRIPTURES ,SO YOUR ANSWER CANNOT STAND AS TRUTH,
Your most recent questions-here, one at a time:
Quoteif it is true,how did he create man in the first place
Terraricca, would you tell me what “it” is in your question. I believe that, at the time man was created, the Godhead was made up of the Most High God and His Son. Scriptures tell us that it was through the Son that all things came into being and that all things are from the Father. The Father was the source and the Son was the one the Father established the creation of the man through.
Gen 1:26-27
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
NASULU;LOOK AT THE BEGINNING IT WAS A QUESTION
Quote
if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them??Are you referring to this passage:
Ex 33:20-23
20 But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!”
21 Then the Lord said, “Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock;
22 and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.
23 “Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen.”
NASUMy opinion on this passage is that the speaker is God the Father, the source of all things and the back is of God the Father. I do not believe that this is the Son of God here.
LU;YES TO THE FIRST PART,THE SECOND PART YOU HAVE ANSWERED WITH YOUR OPINION THIS IS NOT A SCRIPTURE SO YOUR ANSWER CANNOT STAND AS TRUTH.
Quote
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???Again, my opinion is that the Son of God, the second (of two) person of the Godhead who is not the Most High God of the Godhead (that would be His Father) depended on His Father (not because He was weak, but because He was perfect and wise) even before He came as a man. While He was a man on earth, He had become just like a man who is even more dependent on the Father than ever. While the Son was on earth as a man, He was restricted to the limits of a regular human being.
Phil 2:6-11
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
NASULU; THE SCRIPTURES YOU QUOTE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT WHAT CHRIST ATTITUDE AND HIS REWARD FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE;
SO YOUR ANSWER RELY S ONLY ON YOUR ASSUMPTION THAT THERE IS TWO GODS IN ONE,AND SO NON SCRIPTURAL AND SO YOUR ANSWER CANNOT STAND AS TRUTH.
Quote
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,rightNow this is an important part. You say that only God has no beginning but I would say that only the “Most High God” had no beginning. His literal Son, as God, was begotten and that means He came into being and didn't always exist. He wouldn't be a literal Son before creation if He had no beginning, imo.
LU
THE SCRITURES TELL THAT GOD HAS NO BEGINNING NOT ME;BUT YOUR ANSWER START BY SAYING “I”
“WOULD SAY”SO YOUR ANSWER IS YOUR OPINION ,THERE FOR NOT IN SCRIPTURES ,SO YOUR ANSWER CAN NOT STAND AS TRUTH.Does that help?
Edited by Lightenup on Feb. 20 2010,14:12
LU;
YOU ASK ME IF THAT HELPS?
THINK IF I WOULD ACCEPT AND FALLOW YOUR WAY OF THINKING I WOULD LEAVE THE TRUTH OF GOD ,TO FALLOW YOUR OPINIONS AND BY DOING THAT RECEIVE THE CURSE OF GOD ON ME.TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BE LED BY THE SPIRIT (OF UNDERSTANDING GODS WILL)NOT BY OPINIONS
BY MARE MEN THOUGHTS,
SO NO YOU DID NOT HELP ME.Group: Regular Members
Posts: 2191
Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: Feb. 20 2010,14:30
terraricca,You complain that I have given you my opinions, well, my opinions have been as a result of seeking the Spirit's leading.
Are you normally so unappreciative of people's time trying to help you?
Kathi
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 20 2010,03:47) Hi LU,
There is no binity godhead in scripture.What does godhead mean in this context, something different to how the KJV uses it?
A traditional adapted meaning perhaps?
Nick,
I never use the word binity do I? You are the one putting that word in. The word godhead is in scripture, it is one of the interpretations of the word “theos.” It means: For us there is one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ. If it is considered a traditional adapted meaning to you, don't you think that tradition needs adapting?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2010,23:43) Hi LU,
It is a popular opinion.
But i do not believe the one we are to follow had a head start by getting a preview.
Nick,
Do babies have a memory? Why do you assume that the Son of God had a memory of His past when He became a baby? He emptied Himself and became a baby. How do you know that didn't include His memory?LU
would you accept your own comments if i would be the one tell to you??
Posted: Feb. 20 2010,18:41
——————————————————————————–
LUTHOSE ARE MY ANSWERS;
——————————————————————————–
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2010,15:10)
lu
“IT”=no man can see God and live” is this true??if it is true,how did he create man in the first place
if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them???
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,right
TRY TO ANSWER ONE BY ONE AND TRY TO GIVE ME THEREASONS WHY OF YOUR ANSWER.
Hi Terraricca,
Great questions! Let's look at them one at a time. First here is my explanation that you are referring to:
Quote
Hi terraricca,Explanation: The Most High God cannot be seen and the seer live. The Most High God cannot become a man. The Most High God cannot die. Those statements are true, imo. That is why a literal Son was begotten who is of the same nature as His Father, yet, the Son can do all of the above. They are two different persons within one Godhead.
Only the Most High God had no beginning.
Kathi
lu' YOU HAVE ANSWERED ME WITH YOUR OPINION NOT SCRIPTURES ,SO YOUR ANSWER CANNOT STAND AS TRUTH,
Your most recent questions-here, one at a time:
Quoteif it is true,how did he create man in the first place
Terraricca, would you tell me what “it” is in your question. I believe that, at the time man was created, the Godhead was made up of the Most High God and His Son. Scriptures tell us that it was through the Son that all things came into being and that all things are from the Father. The Father was the source and the Son was the one the Father established the creation of the man through.
Gen 1:26-27
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
NASULU;LOOK AT THE BEGINNING IT WAS A QUESTION
Quote
if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them??Are you referring to this passage:
Ex 33:20-23
20 But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!”
21 Then the Lord said, “Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock;
22 and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.
23 “Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen.”
NASUMy opinion on this passage is that the speaker is God the Father, the source of all things and the back is of God the Father. I do not believe that this is the Son of God here.
LU;YES TO THE FIRST PART,THE SECOND PART YOU HAVE ANSWERED WITH YOUR OPINION THIS IS NOT A SCRIPTURE SO YOUR ANSWER CANNOT STAND AS TRUTH.
Quote
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???Again, my opinion is that the Son of God, the second (of two) person of the Godhead who is not the Most High God of the Godhead (that would be His Father) depended on His Father (not because He was weak, but because He was perfect and wise) even before He came as a man. While He was a man on earth, He had become just like a man who is even more dependent on the Father than ever. While the Son was on earth as a man, He was restricted to the limits of a regular human being.
Phil 2:6-11
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
NASULU; THE SCRIPTURES YOU QUOTE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT WHAT CHRIST ATTITUDE AND HIS REWARD FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE;
SO YOUR ANSWER RELY S ONLY ON YOUR ASSUMPTION THAT THERE IS TWO GODS IN ONE,AND SO NON SCRIPTURAL AND SO YOUR ANSWER CANNOT STAND AS TRUTH.
Quote
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,rightNow this is an important part. You say that only God has no beginning but I would say that only the “Most High God” had no beginning. His literal Son, as God, was begotten and that means He came into being and didn't always exist. He wouldn't be a literal Son before creation if He had no beginning, imo.
LU
THE SCRITURES TELL THAT GOD HAS NO BEGINNING NOT ME;BUT YOUR ANSWER START BY SAYING “I”
“WOULD SAY”SO YOUR ANSWER IS YOUR OPINION ,THERE FOR NOT IN SCRIPTURES ,SO YOUR ANSWER CAN NOT STAND AS TRUTH.Does that help?
Edited by Lightenup on Feb. 20 2010,14:12
LU;
YOU ASK ME IF THAT HELPS?
THINK IF I WOULD ACCEPT AND FALLOW YOUR WAY OF THINKING I WOULD LEAVE THE TRUTH OF GOD ,TO FALLOW YOUR OPINIONS AND BY DOING THAT RECEIVE THE CURSE OF GOD ON ME.Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 20 2010,04:39) Nick,
LU is hedging her bets.She thinks she is Worshipping the Father AND the Son but doesn't know what 'Worship' is!
I have explained all to her but it makes no difference (Wonder of wonders, has anyone learned anything from all these postings – has anyone altered their thinking?)
For me, I have gained so much knowledge I wonder what I had been reading and uderstanding before?
There are some here who are Earth bound in their thinking and will never learn because they fear being in the Spirit, they prefer being in the Flesh. They don't Want to understand that they need to be 'Born Again' in the Spirit, see God's 'Word', in both senses, by and through God's Holy Spirit and then all things will become clear and they will know God's Truth.
Then, the adversary will not be able to assail them (as long as they remain In The Truth – we are sinners and still subject to falling away!)
JustAskin,Does the term “worship songs” mean anything to you? You say that I don't know what worship means but you are the one that can't tell me what you have mostly recently done to show worship because you claim that you don't know what it means. You do not back up your claims with scripture saying that worship cannot include singing, etc. Yet you say that you have explained “everything” to me. You are the one asking everybody what worship means. Not me.
You wrote:
Quote I do not say that I 'Worship' because I'm not sure fully what it is or means in todays meaning of the word. You say that you “know” that singing and dancing are not worship because that brings self glorification.
You wrote:
Quote What I do know, though, is that singing and dancing are not part of Worship as this involves elements of 'self Glorification', how well one can sing, how well one can dance according to a given piece of music or tune. All these things are embodied in Praising, Glorifying and Honoring, which can be given to anyone in greater or lesser degree according to the accomplishment of the one to whom the adoration is targetted, e.g. An athlete who has fairly run and won the great race, a rescuer who has brought about the greatest rescue attempt, one who has achieved the highest position in their category and has been given the worthy prize. I think that is very judgemental of you. I personally am not good at singing but I try. I am not showing off when I do and that is an understatement. I appreciate the gift in others that lead worship songs and I see the glory of the Father in those gifts. He gave us gifts for the building up of the body, not to glorify ourselves. Maybe some people do stand up in front and sing to the glory of themselves but only God would know their heart and certainly not you. Maybe you should give people the benefit of the doubt as to whether they are sincere in their worship and thank the Lord for His gifting instead of being critical of their hearts which you cannot truly know. You might be able to be led into worship if you weren't trying so hard to flesh it out and define it.
We are to worship the Lord privately and also as a body. The Jews gathered together for worship regularly and many of the Christians do also. It is a good thing to come together as a body of believers and sing worship songs together or pray together and be thankful together and serve together. I'm sorry that you don't see that as part of worship but I think that you are hung up on your own imagination.
I think that you speak out of two sides of your mouth when you say that you can't change my mind and then later you say that those that know the truth will have clarity. You say that the adversary will not be able to assail them. What I believe, I have received from seeking and praying for God's understanding. I feel like I understand things much more clearly than I used to. I didn't come on this board to learn what I understand. I went to God to learn what I understand. Then I came here.
Are you sure that you haven't acted like the adversary and tried to “assail” me? I stand firm and you complain. If I would waiver, you would probably complain that I was being tossed back and forth with the wind. You do not back up your complaints with scripture, you just make your judgements and complain some more. And then you talk about me in the open forum like that is Christ like?? You have made a few posts just about me…stop gossiping. Keep your eyes on Christ, or would that be blasphemous to you since Christ isn't part of your Godhead?
Kathi
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 20 2010,06:30) LU would you accept your own comments if i would be the one tell to you??
Posted: Feb. 20 2010,18:41
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LUTHOSE ARE MY ANSWERS;
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Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2010,15:10)
lu
“IT”=no man can see God and live” is this true??if it is true,how did he create man in the first place
if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them???
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,right
TRY TO ANSWER ONE BY ONE AND TRY TO GIVE ME THEREASONS WHY OF YOUR ANSWER.
Hi Terraricca,
Great questions! Let's look at them one at a time. First here is my explanation that you are referring to:
Quote
Hi terraricca,Explanation: The Most High God cannot be seen and the seer live. The Most High God cannot become a man. The Most High God cannot die. Those statements are true, imo. That is why a literal Son was begotten who is of the same nature as His Father, yet, the Son can do all of the above. They are two different persons within one Godhead.
Only the Most High God had no beginning.
Kathi
lu' YOU HAVE ANSWERED ME WITH YOUR OPINION NOT SCRIPTURES ,SO YOUR ANSWER CANNOT STAND AS TRUTH,
Your most recent questions-here, one at a time:
Quoteif it is true,how did he create man in the first place
Terraricca, would you tell me what “it” is in your question. I believe that, at the time man was created, the Godhead was made up of the Most High God and His Son. Scriptures tell us that it was through the Son that all things came into being and that all things are from the Father. The Father was the source and the Son was the one the Father established the creation of the man through.
Gen 1:26-27
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
NASULU;LOOK AT THE BEGINNING IT WAS A QUESTION
Quote
if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them??Are you referring to this passage:
Ex 33:20-23
20 But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!”
21 Then the Lord said, “Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock;
22 and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.
23 “Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen.”
NASUMy opinion on this passage is that the speaker is God the Father, the source of all things and the back is of God the Father. I do not believe that this is the Son of God here.
LU;YES TO THE FIRST PART,THE SECOND PART YOU HAVE ANSWERED WITH YOUR OPINION THIS IS NOT A SCRIPTURE SO YOUR ANSWER CANNOT STAND AS TRUTH.
Quote
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???Again, my opinion is that the Son of God, the second (of two) person of the Godhead who is not the Most High God of the Godhead (that would be His Father) depended on His Father (not because He was weak, but because He was perfect and wise) even before He came as a man. While He was a man on earth, He had become just like a man who is even more dependent on the Father than ever. While the Son was on earth as a man, He was restricted to the limits of a regular human being.
Phil 2:6-11
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
NASULU; THE SCRIPTURES YOU QUOTE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT WHAT CHRIST ATTITUDE AND HIS REWARD FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE;
SO YOUR ANSWER RELY S ONLY ON YOUR ASSUMPTION THAT THERE IS TWO GODS IN ONE,AND SO NON SCRIPTURAL AND SO YOUR ANSWER CANNOT STAND AS TRUTH.
Quote
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,rightNow this is an important part. You say that only God has no beginning but I would say that only the “Most High God” had no beginning. His literal Son, as God, was begotten and that means He came into being and didn't always exist. He wouldn't be a literal Son before creation if He had no beginning, imo.
LU
THE SCRITURES TELL THAT GOD HAS NO BEGINNING NOT ME;BUT YOUR ANSWER START BY SAYING “I”
“WOULD SAY”SO YOUR ANSWER IS YOUR OPINION ,THERE FOR NOT IN SCRIPTURES ,SO YOUR ANSWER CAN NOT STAND AS TRUTH.Does that help?
Edited by Lightenup on Feb. 20 2010,14:12
LU;
YOU ASK ME IF THAT HELPS?
THINK IF I WOULD ACCEPT AND FALLOW YOUR WAY OF THINKING I WOULD LEAVE THE TRUTH OF GOD ,TO FALLOW YOUR OPINIONS AND BY DOING THAT RECEIVE THE CURSE OF GOD ON ME.
terraricca,We aren't to just accept one another's comments…we are to test them, like bereans. If our test is only that they are someone's opinions and assume that makes it a lie and not from God then that is a bad test. If you cannot show me my error with unambiguous scripture then you shouldn't lean on your own understanding and be open to people's opinion. You could learn something in the process.
And, yes, if you gave me the answers that I gave you, I would consider them and not dismiss them as a curse from God. Good grief!
LU
in your reasoning it imply that we are not responsible for our action ?
but CHRIST SAYS “BY YOUR WORDS YOU WILL BE JUDGED”SO IF WE WITH THE KNOWLEDGE WE HAVE ,SPEAK NOT THE TRUTH WHAT IS IN OUR HEART KNOWING THAT GOD IS WATCHING US,
THE SCRIPTURE ALSO SAYS “THAT IF SOME ONE HURTS ONE OF MY (JESUS)SHEEP HE WILL OLD THAT AGAINS US,BECAUSE WE HAVE HAD NO CONSIDERATION FOR THE WEAK SHEEP OF THE LORD.WOULD THIS BEAVIOR NOT SHOW RATHER WHAT KIND OF FAITH THAT PERSON HAS IN GOD AND CHRIST AND ALSO IS RECOGNITION OF THE SCRIPTURES BEING THE WORD OF GOD ??
JustAkin! Why do you believe that singing Godly Songs is not worship to God? A very wise man once said that if you sing, you pray twice. Truly that is what I believe also. Singing is not all that easy if one does it good. When I sang in a Choir we practiced and had to memories all Songs that we were going to sing that Sabbath day. We kept the Sabbath at that time… We don't belong to any physical Church right now…Did you see the tread i have ” Songs to Praise God with.” Also when I feel blue, all I have to do is start singing and the blues will fly away…..hope you reconsider your feeling about this….
IreneHi Kathi,
To answer the Scriptures you bumped me the other day, I have this:
Quote wor·ship (wûrshp)
n.
1.
a. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
b. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
2. Ardent devotion; adoration.
3. often Worship Chiefly British Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship.
v. wor·shiped or wor·shipped, wor·ship·ing or wor·ship·ping, wor·ships
v.tr.
1. To honor and love as a deity.
2. To regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion. See Synonyms at revere1.Notice the different meaning of the word between 1. and 2. both noun and verb. Could it be that the worship of Christ was 2., and the worship of God is 1.?
Sound logical? Let me know.
Peace and love
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2010,13:04) Hi Kathi, To answer the Scriptures you bumped me the other day, I have this:
Quote wor·ship (wûrshp)
n.
1.
a. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
b. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
2. Ardent devotion; adoration.
3. often Worship Chiefly British Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship.
v. wor·shiped or wor·shipped, wor·ship·ing or wor·ship·ping, wor·ships
v.tr.
1. To honor and love as a deity.
2. To regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion. See Synonyms at revere1.Notice the different meaning of the word between 1. and 2. both noun and verb. Could it be that the worship of Christ was 2., and the worship of God is 1.?
Sound logical? Let me know.
Peace and love
mike
MikeNow give us an example of what you are saying in the NT scriptures that prove the worship to the Father and Jesus is different!
Blessings WJ
LU
you right you condider them ,good answer whatever that means .
did i not consider your words, have read them and respond to them.
LU,
My point to you is really concerning your thinking that you are or should be Worshipping Jesus.
I think that you are trying to raise resistance to what I have said so you can continue in your way. Much like someone who steals will try to justify their act by saying 'Well, they , the government, are stealing from me eith their taxes, so I'm only taking back what was mine, Aren't I?'
Not once does Jesus instruct or even allude to himself being Worshipped.
In fact, quite the opposite: What did he say to Satan when Satan was trying to temp Jesus to Worship him?:”Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only shall you serve'”(Matthew 4:10)
LU, the word 'LORD' in capitals is a substitute word for 'YHWH', Jehovah, God Almighty.
In Revelation 15:3-4, it is to God Almighty alone that the verses say:'For all the nations shall come and worship before You'.
Contrast that with what God says about Jesus in Hebrews 1:6: 'Let all the angels of God worship Him'.
Does God instruct mankind to worship Jesus. Why does God only say 'Angels'?
Rev 14:7 says:'…Fear God and give glory to him…and worship Him who made Heaven and Earth…'
Why not 'Them that made Heaven and Earth…'?
Rev 19:10: says:'…See that you do not do that![allude to worship towards an angel] I am your … fellow servant…who have the testimony of Jesus.
Worship God!…'Why not 'God and Christ'?
Rev 22:9: says:'See you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant…Worshio God.'
Again, why not 'God and Christ'?
Revelation is about 'The Revelation of Jesus Christ, whichnGod gave Him to show to His servants…'
If we are to Worship Jesus Christ, why does it not say so anywhere?
Why does it, not only 'doesn't' say so BUT explicitly say: 'Worship God'.Note also that BOTH God AND Jesus are mentioned so it is not a case of saying 'God through Jesus' or 'Jesus as God'.
JA
those few verses is Christ words if someone wants to fallow Christ unless you do what he say ,or you find your selve on the other road. LOOK AT THE WORD “MUST”IT IS NOT IF YOU WANTJn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.Jn 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching
Jn 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.
Jn 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
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