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Berean: Mike
It can be one of three possibilities.
Wow. Why is this subject always like pulling teeth? What are people so afraid of?
Okay Berean, let’s try all three of the possibilities listed by your source, since you won’t commit to one of them…
Psalm 8:5… You have made mankind a little lower than the gods…
1. The idols of the heathen.
Does that one work, Berean? Did Yahweh make man a little lower than the manmade idols of the heathen?
2. Angelic beings.
How about that one, Berean? Was David saying that Yahweh made man a little lower than angelic beings?
3. Human kings/judges.
How about that one? Was David saying that God made mankind lower than certain other men?
It seems clear enough to me that #2 is the obvious (and only logical) answer. Wouldn’t you agree?
And if David meant “angelic beings”, will you openly acknowledge the scriptural FACT that what we call “angels” are explicitly called gods by the authors of the Bible?
Mike, Off the top of my head, Hebrews 1 and 2 has reference to this and I have always understood that as angels. I do not agree that all spirit sons of God are considered as, and explicitly called gods in scripture.
Okay Kathi, but if not “all spirit sons of God”, then which particular spirit sons of God was David talking about when he said, “You have made mankind a little lower than the gods”?
Was mankind made a little lower than some of the “angels”, but higher than other ones? I don’t get it. Which of these gods, exactly, was David talking about if not all of them in general?
Look at Heb 2:9 in the interlinear and you will see that David was talking about the “angelous” (strongs #32) often translated as angels but not translated as “gods.”
The Greek “aggelos”, like the Hebrew “malak”, means messenger. When the messenger in question is deemed to be a spirit being by English translators, many of them use the English word angel – which is not in any Biblical text. There is no such Hebrew or Greek word that designates a spirit messenger of God, like the English word angel does.
In both the Hebrew and the Greek texts, the word is only messenger, and it is up to the reader to decide whether the messenger in question is of spirit or human nature.
I’ve been saying this over and over for years on HN, and multiple times in this thread already. But all of that, while good information that you should probably know, is beside the point. It is clear that David was talking about creatures that we call angels. It is clear that David called them gods – as they are called all throughout the scriptures.
So just for argument’s sake, in an effort to get you to actually answer my question, let’s call them angels for right now. When David said that God made man a little lower than “the angels”, did David mean all of the angels in general? Or was he talking about only certain particular angels?
If David meant “gods” then the Greek would have been “theos.”
It seems to me that David meant angels in general.
Mike…..I also agree with LU, IF David meant god’s, the Greek word “theos” would have been used there.
Mike, the question is do you “truly”, believe what Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that they might know “YOU” , the “ONLY” “TRUE” God”…….Why would Jesus use the word “only” , if there were other “true” God’s, common sense question Mike.
Again Mike, why would Paul say this ,
1Ti 2:5……“for there is “ONE” God, and one mediator, between God and men, the “man” Christ Jesus”.
Notice he didn’t say the God or god Jesus did he?
1 Cor 8: 5-6……“for though there be that are called god, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be god’s many, and lord’s many,) But unto us there is but, “ONE” God, the Father, of whom are all thing, and we in him, and one lord Jesus Christ , for (the purpose of) whom are all things and we by him.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike. ………..gene
Hi Adam,
There are no two Gods (YHWH vs EL)
YHWH is God!It was shown to you so that you might know that Yahweh is God.
There is no one else besides him. Deuteronomy 4:35Know therefore today, and take it to heart, that Yahweh himself is God
in heaven above and on the earth beneath.
There is no one else. Deuteronomy 4:39God bless
LU: If David meant “gods” then the Greek would have been “theos.”
I suspect that calling God’s supernatural sons “gods” was beginning to “go out of style” by the time the LXX and the NT were written. “Angels” are called gods all throughout the OT, but rarely in the NT. And it is even less so in our culture, as is attested by the fact that people who know the Bible are bending over backwards on this thread, trying anything and everything they can think of to avoid acknowledging what the Bible actually teaches: God’s spirit sons are gods according to scripture.
So while King David obviously and undeniable called these creatures gods (many different times), the men who translated the Hebrew texts into the Greek LXX lived in a different time, when it was apparently more fashionable to call them “messengers” than “gods”. So they translated King David’s “gods” into Greek as “messengers”.
I believe it’s akin to how the proper name Yahweh was used very often in the OT, but by the time of the NT, it was “Father”, and “God”, and “Lord”. It became “unfashionable” (or perhaps even considered anathema) to use God’s personal name. Or like “Holy Ghost” was common when the KJV was written, but nowadays, “ghost” carries a different connotation, and so we usually say “Holy Spirit”.
LU: It seems to me that David meant angels in general.
He did. Except for he called them gods… many times in scripture. So the bottom line is that David was definitely talking about God’s spirit sons, and he called them gods because that’s exactly what they are. And you are correct that he was talking about gods (“angels”) in general – not just certain ones of them.
Gene: Mike, the question is do you “truly”, believe what Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that they might know “YOU” , the “ONLY” “TRUE” God”…….Why would Jesus use the word “only” , if there were other “true” God’s, common sense question Mike.
Well Gene, the Jews accused Jesus of making himself out to be a god who was sent down from heaven. And Jesus answered them by pointing to Psalm 82, where Yahweh Himself called His spirit sons gods. Jesus’ answer to them was, in effect, “If God called these other spirit sons gods, then why not the only spirit son that He set apart as His very own and sent into the world?” (John 10:33-36)
So if Jesus acknowledged to the Jews (who thought he was just a man) that he was indeed a god like the ones in Ps 82 (except for even higher than them), then you have to use your common sense to know what Jesus meant when he called his own God “the only true God”.
I’ve already shared this with you in this very thread (and many other times on HN), but I’ll do it again for the benefit of Danny Dabbs who maybe hasn’t considered it…
Isaiah 43:11… I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.
Hosea 13:4… Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no savior beside me.
Do you see those words, Gene? Does Yahweh mean there is LITERALLY no other savior in existence? Or is He saying emphatically that He is the GREATEST/ULTIMATE savior?
So what I want you (and Danny Dabbs) to do is treat these verses the same as you do John 17:3 and Deut 4:25, etc. Treat them as 100% LITERAL, and let’s see what happens…
2 Peter 3:18… But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Uh oh… now what will you guys do? Yahweh clearly said He was the ONLY savior, yet we know that Jesus is ALSO our savior, right? So Gene, don’t ever bring those same verses up to me again UNTIL you have given an actual ANSWER to this “savior” dilemma, okay? Because I keep showing this to you, and you say nothing. And then a week or so later, you come back “proving your point” by bringing up John 17:3 and Deut 4:25 all over again! It’s infuriating, dude. So either ANSWER this point, or shut up about John 17:3 and Deut 4:25, etc.
Now some will say, “Well that’s because Jesus IS Yahweh”, right? To them I add…
Nehemiah 9:27… when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviors, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.
So now how many Yahwehs are there? Was every savior in the Bible secretly Yahweh Himself because Yahweh said there was no savior besides Him?
Or is it more sensible that Yahweh was speaking EMPHATICALLY when He said He was the only savior, and the only god?
Because after all, Yahweh Himself called many other beings gods all throughout the Bible. How could He mean He was LITERALLY the ONLY god and then call a bunch of other people gods? How could He even be “the God of gods” if there aren’t other gods? How can He be “the Most High God” if there aren’t less high gods?
You people need to wake up and start accepting the scriptures as they’re written, and stop trying to force the scriptures into teaching only what you want them to teach.
Danny Dabbs: There are no two Gods (YHWH vs EL)
YHWH is God!It was shown to you so that you might know that Yahweh is God.
There is no one else besides him. Deuteronomy 4:35Know therefore today, and take it to heart, that Yahweh himself is God
in heaven above and on the earth beneath.
There is no one else. Deuteronomy 4:39Danny, please read my previous post to Gene and share your thoughts on what I pointed out. Thanks.
Hey Gene! Is Yahweh LITERALLY the ONLY savior in existence? Yes or No?
Hey Berean! I whittled down your three options to the only option that works. What is your response?
Hey Kathi! I agreed with you that David was undoubtedly talking about what we call “angels” in Ps 8:5 – and pointed out that he called these creatures “gods” nonetheless. What is your response?
Hey Danny! Where is your response?
Hey Proclaimer! Why are you afraid to join in this discussion?
Hey Jodi! Where are you?
Hey Adam! I hope you are okay. I haven’t heard from you since I debunked your “Yahweh is subservient to the Canaanite god El” theory.
Where are you guys? Everyone has their lifelong belief that the Hebrew culture and the Bible is strictly monotheistic – because other people LIED to them about that. Then they are shown the truth – from the scriptures themselves. And instead of saying, “Wow! You’re absolutely right that the Bible teaches about a bunch of different gods!”, they just run away, mumbling about how the Bible STILL teaches of only one God regardless of what the scriptures say.
Shameful behavior for people who are supposedly here to discuss scriptural truth.
A perfect example…
LU: If David meant “gods” then the Greek would have been “theos.”
Gene: Mike…..I also agree with LU, IF David meant god’s, the Greek word “theos” would have been used there.
David spoke Hebrew – not Greek. And in Hebrew, David called them gods. How David’s words were later TRANSLATED into Greek has nothing to do with the fact that David clearly and undeniably called Yahweh’s spirit sons “gods”.
The above response isn’t even an argument. It’s a way to not HAVE the discussion because it is “scary”.
Gene, seeing that David called God’s spirit sons “gods”, did David think that Yahweh was LITERALLY the ONLY god in existence?
Gene, seeing that Yahweh Himself called His own spirit sons “gods” on many occasions (ie: Ps 82), did Yahweh think that He was LITERALLY the ONLY god in existence?
Kathi, did David or did he not call God’s spirit sons “gods” in Ps 8:5?
You guys’ answers to these questions will get you on the path of scriptural truth, and hopefully stop you from spreading falsehoods about there only being one god in the Bible.
I’m only trying to help you. Don’t be afraid to let the scriptures teach you, instead of you teaching them.
Hi Mike,
I only wanted to show Adam that YHWH is EL!
Because Adam believes they are separate deities.
I gave him these Bible verses:It was shown to you so that you might know that Yahweh is God.
There is no one else besides him. Deuteronomy 4:35Know therefore today, and take it to heart, that Yahweh himself is God
in heaven above and on the earth beneath.
There is no one else. Deuteronomy 4:39God bless
Thanks Danny. I think he is reading too many anti-God sources, and taking their claims at face value instead of investigating them. Yahweh is indeed the Most High God of all the other gods according to the Bible. Cheers
Hi Mike
Hey Berean! I whittled down your three options to the only option that works. What is your response
Me
Pss.138
[1] I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee.the most plausible 👉 gods= angels
God bless
Eureka, Berean! They are indeed what we call angels. They are God’s spirit sons, and they are also gods – just like Yahweh and just about everyone else in the Bible calls them. 👍
Hi Mike,
If there are other gods then what about Isaiah 45:5?
“I am Yahweh, and there is no one else.
Besides me, there is no God.”God bless
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