The man of sin

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 25 2007,11:59)

Hi 94,
Satan has a kingdom as Jesus made very clear, for example in Lk 11, and his servants are unclean spirits.

Hi Nick:

That doesn't answer my question about Rev. 16:13 showing that an unclean spirit is coming out of the mouth of the dragon. The unclean spirits in Luke 11 are coming out of men as the Lord casts them out.

Also, John says that he saw the unclean spirits coming out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the beast and out of the false prophet.

Quote

16:13
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
16:14
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth (5738) (5625) unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

I am just trying to understand all of this. Can you give me some help?

God Bless

July 25, 2007 at 2:24 am#61455

Participant

942767…….the reason the antichrist isn't there is Because. The antichrist is a Lie about Jesus Being God and will be destroyed at Jesus return by the breath of his mouth just like it say's. The antichrist is the creation the man of sin, and it came about by turnning Jesus form flesh and blood to a God and Jesus will destory the false image of him at his return, so therefore it will no longer exist from theat point on.
thanks….gene

July 25, 2007 at 3:16 am#61458

Participant

942767…..I order to answer your question about the unclean spirits we first have to know what a spirit is. John said to try the spirits to see if they are of God. So we can assume that a spirit has somthing to do with our intellect that kind of makes up who we are and inorder for us to judge it,it must be spoken or be some kind of activity so we can know somthing about them. Maybe the next thing is if it's clean or an unclean spirit. I believe a clean spirit is one who speaks and acts clearly, while a unclean spirit acts unclearly and clouds issues. Kind of like clean water it clear, but if its muddy its not clear much like deception does it muddy's up our understanding and is of satan.
This is what i think is what is meant by clean and unclean Spirits.It deffenitly tied in our with intellect. Just what i think that's all…gene

July 25, 2007 at 3:18 am#61459

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 25 2007,14:24)

Hi Gene:

I respect your opinion, but I just don't understand this the way that you do. Anyway, I thought I would paste the following scriptures relative to antichrist:

Quote

1Jo 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jo 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is * the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jo 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

God Bless

July 25, 2007 at 3:36 am#61461

Participant

Quote (942767 @ July 25 2007,15:18)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 25 2007,14:24)

Hi Gene:

I respect your opinion, but I just don't understand this the way that you do. Anyway, I thought I would paste the following scriptures relative to antichrist:

Quote

1Jo 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jo 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is * the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

2Jo 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

God Bless

942767…..> what is the spirit (intellect) of antichrist, What did John say was . This is what the antichrist was about it an issue about Jesus Himself that John is taking about, he is talking about how we precieve Jesus, not about anything else.

July 25, 2007 at 3:55 am#61462

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 25 2007,15:16)

Hi Gene:

Rev 16:14 tells us what these unclean spirits are:

Quote

Rev. 16:13
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
16:14
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth (5738) (5625) unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Quote

Matt. 7:15
Beware * of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
7:16
Ye shall know them by their fruits *. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

God Bless

July 25, 2007 at 4:27 am#61464

Participant

942797 …. when is the Great Day of Almighty God, i believe it's at the end of the thousand year reign of Jesus and the Saints on earth, and the time the Father Himself comes. Proceeding the Fathers comming, Satan and his demons will be released out of the pit and go out on the face of the earth to gather all Nation to battle againt the Saints and Jesus at Jerusalam and the Father come down and destory them. just what i think thas all…..gene

July 25, 2007 at 3:16 pm#61491

Participant

Quote (942767 @ July 25 2007,10:24)

Quote (kenrch @ July 23 2007,11:21)

Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and *with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image*. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

Ok, there is the dragon and the beast, and the false prophet.

Then there is the beast and false prophet that are thrown into the lake of fire.

THEN after the melinnium, after Satan is deafeted for the last time, he is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are.

Ouestion: Where is the antichrist? Where is this person that Satan enters? Could the false prophet and the antichrist/man of sin, be the same person?

Unless Satan is mentioned and NOT the person he enters. In that case Satan is the man of sin being the originator of sin and the lie. ummmmm

Hi Ken:

Quote

Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

The devil is a spirit, and I believe that the dragon is symbolic of him, but the foregoing verse states that an unclean spirit is coming out of the mouth of the dragon, and it could be that the Anti-Christ is the dragon in this scripture. The beast is the entity, but the beast has a leader, the “Man of Sin”.

Quote

The following verse shows what God did with the dragon which again may be the Anti-Christ. He deceived those who were alive at the coming of the Lord, and it appears that he will deceive the dead who will be resurrected after the 1000 year reign.

Quote

Revelation 20
20:1
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
20:3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Quote

20:7
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
20:8
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
20:9
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Quote

Ouestion: Where is the antichrist? Where is this person that Satan enters? Could the false prophet and the antichrist/man of sin, be the same person?

It appears that the Anti-Christ is shown as the dragon, and no, I don't believe that the False Phrophet and the “man of sin” are the same person.

I believe that the following scripture is relative to the Anti-Christ:

Quote

Re 9:1
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Re 9:2
And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Re 9:11
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Re 11:7
And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Re 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was *, and is not, and yet is.

I believe that the following scripture is relative to the False Prophet:

13:11
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein * * to worship the first beast, whose * * deadly wound was healed.
13:13
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
13:14
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
13:15
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would * not worship the image of the beast should be killed *.
13:16
And he causeth all, both small and great *, rich and poor *, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand *, or in
their foreheads:
13:17
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
13:18
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Quote

Rev. 13:12 states that he causes the people to worship the “first beast”.

You say:

Unless Satan is mentioned and NOT the person he enters. In that case Satan is the man of sin being the originator of sin and the lie. ummmmm

The “man of sin” is the personification of the devil. But he is a real person IMHO.

God Bless

Quote

The “man of sin” is the personification of the devil. But he is a real person IMHO.

So where is this man of sin? Again we have Satan (dragon), the false prophet, and the beast.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Once the false prophet and the beast are thrown into the lake of fire then only Satan is left.

The false prophet and the beast are not allowed out, only Satan comes out after the thousand years to his destruction.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Satan,
false prophet
beast

There is only one man mentioned and that is the false prophet.

Doesn't it “seem” that the man of sin would be there?

IMHO either the man of sin is the false prophet OR the man of sin IS Satan. What other choice is there given the scriptures.

Can the beast be the man of sin? I don't think so.

IHN&L,

Ken

July 25, 2007 at 8:39 pm#61517

NickHassan

Participant

Hi k,
Is not the beast a man.
Satan is not a man.

July 26, 2007 at 12:03 am#61548

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 26 2007,08:39)

Hi k,
Is not the beast a man.
Satan is not a man.

Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

Ok, there is the dragon and the beast, and the false prophet.

So Nick which is the man of sin, the beast?

Isn't the beast a government?

July 26, 2007 at 4:17 am#61575

Participant

kenrch…..the beast is a government and the whore that rides it is the false church, and remember a rider is always the one who controls the beast. much like a rider controls a horse, it the same anolgy.

the Man of sin is neither of these, because Jesus abolishes the Man of Sin Lie at his return, the Man of Sin is not a real person, It's a Lie about Jesus being portrayed as Very God. That's (THE LIE), Paul was talking about

July 26, 2007 at 1:32 pm#61618

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 26 2007,16:17)

Yes I know that the government is the beast I was just toying with Nick .

Rev 13:11 Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon.

Rev 13:12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people,

The second beast performs great signs.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Here it is the false prophet of the second beast that performs signs.

I believe the Vatican is a nation, a government. I know that the U.S sends an ambassador to the Vatican. So the beast is the Vatican the whore is the church and the false prophet is the Pope. Gee 3 in one just like her doctrine! :laugh:

Here (Rev. 19:20) the beast and the false prophet are “taken out of the way” by the second coming of Christ, right?

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

Then Satan is revealed, right?

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Satan entered Judas who was “a” son of perdition.

Ummmmmm?

The beast and false prophet conceal who is behind the Trinity doctrine. Once taken out of the way then Satan is revealed, the father of lies, the one who said he would lift his throne above that of God.

Isa 14:12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!
Isa 14:13 You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;

Ummmmm, what do ya think?

July 26, 2007 at 3:21 pm#61631

Participant

Kenrch….. It say's they that worship it's (IMAGE) i wonder if this Image is the Lie that creates the image of Jesus being very God himself and causes people to worship Jesus him as GOD, it fits what most trinitarians do now, and it whats is preached by most all RCC and Protestant churches.
Hmmmm, interesting……gene:)

July 27, 2007 at 1:54 am#61693

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 27 2007,03:21)

Gene,

I think you are on to something with the “lie” Jesus being God. Satan is the lie and the father of it (Jesus being God). But still as he used Judas he uses (I believe) the false prophet because once the false prophet is out of the way Satan is revealed as the source of the lie.

Hmmmmmm

July 27, 2007 at 2:27 am#61700

Participant

kenrch……> I total agree with you that satan is the author of the Lie and carries it out through his Church leaders. And that Lie is that Jesus is God, making this false image of him THE LIE and creates the man of sin. Thats why i said the man of sin is not a real person it a fabercated person that satan fabercated. Satan is the one behind the whole thing.

it all sound right to me brother…..Hmmmmm, it fits.

July 27, 2007 at 12:55 pm#61782

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 27 2007,14:27)

it all sound right to me brother…..Hmmmmm, it fits.

But just as Satan used Judas wouldn't he use again a human agent…..the “false prophet” who was taken out of the way like Paul said in 2 Thess. to reveal Satan the author of sin?

The false prophet is the height of Satan's lie HE IS THE MAN until taken “out of the way”.

Their are only three players The false prophet, the beast, and Satan.

I think :laugh: !

July 27, 2007 at 3:08 pm#61812

Participant

Kenrch…..> ken the lie is not a person , thats my point, it's a product of Satan which the whore and her daughters teach and this teaching is about Jesus being God, which creates the man of sin.It's a false image of Jesus himself, thats the man of sin. That why Paul used the definite article (the) the lie. A lie is not a person its a false statement about somthing and in this case it's about Jesus.

but you are right when it comes to who is provacating this lie it is the whore and false prophet under the influence of satan.
Satan has always tried to make more than One God . And what better way to bring a curse on people than make another God to be in their minds, it is an act of idolatry to create another GOD.
I maintain that the man of sin is not a real person at all, it's a false image of Jesus a Lie that Jesus will (abolish) by the word of his mouth at his return. why abolish, because thats what you do to a lie, and why by the word of his mouth, because it's not a person it's a lie that he will abolish at his return.

think about it, it does make sense….. gene

July 27, 2007 at 10:04 pm#61850

michaels

Participant

who is your god? he is one god, how is he a lie if he is called the word by name,not just by speaking gods words,in revelations,19:13, for he came out of the father who is god and returned there back into him,he is part of the father ,the one god ,if you praise yahshua,you are praiseing the father,for the fathers name is in him.yet me still say praise the father,and thank jesus,yet even the rocks and the earth praise jesus in the father,for if we will not praise him even the rocks will and they did for me heard them,not just me,my wife ,and children.the father is worthy of all praise,is not jesus wothy of all praise,for he sits in the glory of the father,gods glory alone is worthy of our praise,may the truth lead you into all truth,for he will tell you all things,if we just seeek him with alll our harts.

July 28, 2007 at 7:09 pm#61969