The Light

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
So Father of lights refers to a minor aspect of physical creation?
I doubt many would agree with you.

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
Seems to speak rather more of the heavenly realm.
Jas 1
16Do not err, my beloved brethren.

17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights[5457], with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Number 5457
Transliteration:
phos {foce}
Word Origin:
from an obsolete phao (to shine or make manifest, especially by rays, cf 5316, 5346)
TDNT:
9:310,1293
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
Usage in the KJV:
light 68, fire 2

Total: 70
Definition:
light
the light
emitted by a lamp
a heavenly light such as surrounds angels when they appear on earth
anything emitting light
a star
fire because it is light and sheds light
a lamp or torch
light, i.e brightness
of a lamp
metaph.
God is light because light has the extremely delicate, subtle, pure, brilliant quality
of truth and its knowledge, together with the spiritual purity associated with it
that which is exposed to the view of all, openly, publicly
reason, mind
the power of understanding esp. moral and spiritual truth For Synonyms see entry 5817

[Lightenup]

Good post Nick,
LU

[gollamudi]

All that you have just quoted is talking about the light of Truth that comes from God who is the source of Truth. Why are you so much confused about literal light and moral light?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Jn12
31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33This he said, signifying what death he should die.

34The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?

35Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

36While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

It is interesting that the Jews knew one coming called the Christ
They knew he would abide forever.

Jesus specified the judgement on the world as relating to Satan and his work.
Jesus did not come to judge men but to set men free from the dominion of darkness.
Now men were not imprisoned by the spirit of the air but were able to be drawn to the Light.

[gollamudi]

Yes brother Nick,
Light is the truth of God and darkness is the sin.
Thanks and blessings
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Jeremiah 13:16
Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness.

[gollamudi]

Amen.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
You said in another thread
“Hi Martian,
My stance on the “Light” of day one being the Son of God is a theory of which I developed after asking God what “Firstborn of all creation” meant.  During that quest, one day when I was homeschooling my son and we were reviewing creation, I asked him what happened on day one.  My son replied “Let there be light,” then at that very moment, I heard in my left ear, “You are the light of the world.”  Anyway, I made the connection of “Firstborn of all creation” and “Let there be light” because of that quest and hearing those spoken words in my ear.

It is true.
Don't add to it
Listen to who said it again.

He said it before.
be blessed

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.  

Philippians 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Christ in you, your hope of glory.
Isaiah 60
1Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

2For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 01 2009,10:04)

Hi LU, You said in another thread “Hi Martian, My stance on the “Light” of day one being the Son of God is a theory of which I developed after asking God what “Firstborn of all creation” meant.  During that quest, one day when I was homeschooling my son and we were reviewing creation, I asked him what happened on day one.  My son replied “Let there be light,” then at that very moment, I heard in my left ear, “You are the light of the world.”  Anyway, I made the connection of “Firstborn of all creation” and “Let there be light” because of that quest and hearing those spoken words in my ear. It is true. Don't add to it Listen to who said it again. He said it before. be blessed Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.   Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Christ in you, your hope of glory. Isaiah 60 1Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. 2For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

Yes, What he said to you is true, but it is not the same as the “let there be light” in Genesis although there may be some symbolism involved between this and Jesus who is the light of the world.

He(Jesus) is the firstborn of God of God's creation, and then:

Quote

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 31 2009,22:08)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 01 2009,10:04) Hi LU, You said in another thread “Hi Martian, My stance on the “Light” of day one being the Son of God is a theory of which I developed after asking God what “Firstborn of all creation” meant.  During that quest, one day when I was homeschooling my son and we were reviewing creation, I asked him what happened on day one.  My son replied “Let there be light,” then at that very moment, I heard in my left ear, “You are the light of the world.”  Anyway, I made the connection of “Firstborn of all creation” and “Let there be light” because of that quest and hearing those spoken words in my ear. It is true. Don't add to it Listen to who said it again. He said it before. be blessed Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.   Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Christ in you, your hope of glory. Isaiah 60 1Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. 2For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. Yes, What he said to you is true, but it is not the same as the “let there be light” in Genesis although there may be some symbolism involved between this and Jesus who is the light of the world. He(Jesus) is the firstborn of God of God's creation, and then: Quote Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Nick and Marty,

Thanks for your comments. You both seem to think that the words in my ear were just to encourage me and could have been said at any time…a simple blessing to me. Well, I experienced it and perhaps haven't conveyed the situation clear enough but the timing of those words in my ear with what my son had just said and my consuming quest for the meaning of the term “firstborn of all creation” makes me trust that there is more to it than a blessing to me. The connection I immediately thought of when I heard the whisper in my ear was that the firstborn, God's Son, refers to the day one “light”. My next thought was “how simple”…and then my next thought was “I have to test this.”

Well, that was 16 years ago and I have not found evidence that the connection I made can not be possible. At the same time I am still open to testing this. For me it clears up alot of the confusion we have here on verses like:
John 1:1,
Colossians 1:15,
Genesis 1:3,
and others having to do with pre-existence and the idea of the Son's sonship, His relationship to His Father-an inequality, why He is also called God and how the Father can be the “one” God, it helped greatly set aside the trinity doctrine
those are just some of the things this connection did for me.

It has been a blessing for me..a life changing blessing. BTW, I knew that we were called “lights” for the world well before this happened.

LU

[942767]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 01 2009,17:09)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 31 2009,22:08) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 01 2009,10:04) Hi LU, You said in another thread “Hi Martian, My stance on the “Light” of day one being the Son of God is a theory of which I developed after asking God what “Firstborn of all creation” meant.  During that quest, one day when I was homeschooling my son and we were reviewing creation, I asked him what happened on day one.  My son replied “Let there be light,” then at that very moment, I heard in my left ear, “You are the light of the world.”  Anyway, I made the connection of “Firstborn of all creation” and “Let there be light” because of that quest and hearing those spoken words in my ear. It is true. Don't add to it Listen to who said it again. He said it before. be blessed Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.   Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Christ in you, your hope of glory. Isaiah 60 1Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. 2For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. Yes, What he said to you is true, but it is not the same as the “let there be light” in Genesis although there may be some symbolism involved between this and Jesus who is the light of the world. He(Jesus) is the firstborn of God of God's creation, and then: Quote Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Nick and Marty, Thanks for your comments.  You both seem to think that the words in my ear were just to encourage me and could have been said at any time…a simple blessing to me.  Well, I experienced it and perhaps haven't conveyed the situation clear enough but the timing of those words in my ear with what my son had just said and my consuming quest for the meaning of the term “firstborn of all creation” makes me trust that there is more to it than a blessing to me.  The connection I immediately thought of when I heard the whisper in my ear was that the firstborn, God's Son, refers to the day one “light”.  My next thought was “how simple”…and then my next thought was “I have to test this.” Well, that was 16 years ago and I have not found evidence that the connection I made can not be possible. At the same time I am still open to testing this.  For me it clears up alot of the confusion we have here on verses like: John 1:1, Colossians 1:15, Genesis 1:3, and others having to do with pre-existence and the idea of the Son's sonship, His relationship to His Father-an inequality, why He is also called God and how the Father can be the “one” God, it helped greatly set aside the trinity doctrine those are just some of the things this connection did for me. It has been a blessing for me..a life changing blessing.  BTW, I knew that we were called “lights” for the world well before this happened. LU

Hi LU:

I have no doubt that God has spoken to you in answer to your prayer about the “the Firstborn of Creation”, but I believe that you have misunderstood what He was saying to you. Our Father & God has said:

Quote

Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

God Bless

[Lightenup]

Hi Marty,

Quote

Hi LU: I have no doubt that God has spoken to you in answer to your prayer about the “the Firstborn of Creation”, but I believe that you have misunderstood what He was saying to you. Our Father & God has said: Quote Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Why do you think that I misunderstood what He was saying to me?
LU

[942767]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 04 2009,17:37)

Hi Marty, Quote Hi LU: I have no doubt that God has spoken to you in answer to your prayer about the “the Firstborn of Creation”, but I believe that you have misunderstood what He was saying to you.  Our Father & God has said: Quote   Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. Why do you think that I misunderstood what He was saying to me? LU

Hi LU:

Because based on his answer to you, you developed a theory which cannot be supported by scripture.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2009,19:03)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 04 2009,17:37) Hi Marty, Quote Hi LU: I have no doubt that God has spoken to you in answer to your prayer about the “the Firstborn of Creation”, but I believe that you have misunderstood what He was saying to you.  Our Father & God has said: Quote   Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. Why do you think that I misunderstood what He was saying to me? LU Hi LU: Because based on his answer to you, you developed a theory which cannot be supported by scripture. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,
Which part isn't supported in scripture?
LU

[942767]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 05 2009,13:35)

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2009,19:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 04 2009,17:37) Hi Marty, Quote Hi LU: I have no doubt that God has spoken to you in answer to your prayer about the “the Firstborn of Creation”, but I believe that you have misunderstood what He was saying to you.  Our Father & God has said: Quote   Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. Why do you think that I misunderstood what He was saying to me? LU Hi LU: Because based on his answer to you, you developed a theory which cannot be supported by scripture. Love in Christ, Marty Marty, Which part isn't supported in scripture? LU

Hi LU

The part that where you indicated that Jesus is the the “light” in Genesis.

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2009,22:00)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 05 2009,13:35) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2009,19:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 04 2009,17:37) Hi Marty, Quote Hi LU: I have no doubt that God has spoken to you in answer to your prayer about the “the Firstborn of Creation”, but I believe that you have misunderstood what He was saying to you.  Our Father & God has said: Quote   Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. Why do you think that I misunderstood what He was saying to me? LU Hi LU: Because based on his answer to you, you developed a theory which cannot be supported by scripture. Love in Christ, Marty Marty, Which part isn't supported in scripture? LU Hi LU The part that where you indicated that Jesus is the the “light” in Genesis.

Hi Marty,
Do you know what that light on day one is, if not how can you be so absolute?
LU

[942767]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 05 2009,15:09)

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2009,22:00) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 05 2009,13:35) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2009,19:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 04 2009,17:37) Hi Marty, Quote Hi LU: I have no doubt that God has spoken to you in answer to your prayer about the “the Firstborn of Creation”, but I believe that you have misunderstood what He was saying to you.  Our Father & God has said: Quote   Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. Why do you think that I misunderstood what He was saying to me? LU Hi LU: Because based on his answer to you, you developed a theory which cannot be supported by scripture. Love in Christ, Marty Marty, Which part isn't supported in scripture? LU Hi LU The part that where you indicated that Jesus is the the “light” in Genesis. Hi Marty, Do you know what that light on day one is, if not how can you be so absolute? LU

Hi LU:

These are the scriptures from Genesis:

Quote

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

God said that he called this light Day. He did not call that light Jesus.

Marty

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 05 2009,00:22)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 05 2009,15:09) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2009,22:00) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 05 2009,13:35) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2009,19:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 04 2009,17:37) Hi Marty, Quote Hi LU: I have no doubt that God has spoken to you in answer to your prayer about the “the Firstborn of Creation”, but I believe that you have misunderstood what He was saying to you.  Our Father & God has said: Quote   Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. Why do you think that I misunderstood what He was saying to me? LU Hi LU: Because based on his answer to you, you developed a theory which cannot be supported by scripture. Love in Christ, Marty Marty, Which part isn't supported in scripture? LU Hi LU The part that where you indicated that Jesus is the the “light” in Genesis. Hi Marty, Do you know what that light on day one is, if not how can you be so absolute? LU Hi LU: These are the scriptures from Genesis: Quote Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. God said that he called this light Day.  He did not call that light Jesus. Marty

Hi Marty,
I believe that these words “light” and “day” are spiritual references and not physical references. Especially since we do not know what that light was if it was physical, its not the sun, moon, or stars.

1 Thess 5:5-6
5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
NASU

LU

[942767]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 05 2009,16:40)

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 05 2009,00:22) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 05 2009,15:09) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2009,22:00) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 05 2009,13:35) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2009,19:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 04 2009,17:37) Hi Marty, Quote Hi LU: I have no doubt that God has spoken to you in answer to your prayer about the “the Firstborn of Creation”, but I believe that you have misunderstood what He was saying to you.  Our Father & God has said: Quote   Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. Why do you think that I misunderstood what He was saying to me? LU Hi LU: Because based on his answer to you, you developed a theory which cannot be supported by scripture. Love in Christ, Marty Marty, Which part isn't supported in scripture? LU Hi LU The part that where you indicated that Jesus is the the “light” in Genesis. Hi Marty, Do you know what that light on day one is, if not how can you be so absolute? LU Hi LU: These are the scriptures from Genesis: Quote Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. God said that he called this light Day.  He did not call that light Jesus. Marty Hi Marty, I believe that these words “light” and “day” are spiritual references and not physical references.  Especially since we do not know what that light was if it was physical, its not the sun, moon, or stars. 1 Thess 5:5-6 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; NASU LU

Hi LU:

You say:

Quote

I believe that these words “light” and “day” are spiritual references and not physical references. Especially since we do not know what that light was if it was physical, its not the sun, moon, or stars.

And so, you believe that the “light” spoken of here which God calls day is something different than what is spoken of in the following verses:

Quote

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also. Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.

Maybe, but do you have scripture to support this belief? If you don't then this is not going anywhere.

There is a scripture which states: “God is light and in Him is no darkness at all”. But when he says let there be “light”, God called that light “day”.

Let me quote the scripture in 1 Thes to which you refer in context:

Quote

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

We are children of light because we have a personal relationship with God, and we have His Word, the scriptures, through which He speaks the truth to us. In these series of scriptures, we know (by the Word of God) that there is a day of judgment coming.

I can understand what you are implying, but you can not support your theory by scripture, and therefore, I don't believe that there is any more that I can say about this.

My desire is God's very best for you and your family.

Love in Christ,
Marty

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