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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 02 2008,10:49) Nick….it's obvious you don't know the word eternal is not even in scripture, because the Greek language contains no such word, it should be translated aeon, or (AGE). Check out the word. The scripture you quoted has to do with (NATIONS) not individual people. You should learn not to infuse your own desires into scripture. imo
He's right Nick, in that “Ohlam” doesn't have to mean “eternal” or everlasting. It really means an indefinite period of time, which is usually quite long, and which in some instances, is forever.One example of it being forever is here:
“Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite.” (Isa 40:28)
Some Bibles may translate this “forever” or “eternity” and in this case that's what it means, but that's not what it says. So, you're right.
Another example:
Jehovah is “from time indefinite to time indefinite.” (Ps 90:2)
We know Jehovah will always be, hence, the time indefinite here, means forever. But, again, that's not what it says.‛Oh·lam′ does not in itself mean “forever” or “eternal”
For example, the ‘indefinitely lasting’ Law covenant came to an end with Jesus’ death and the bringing in of a new covenant. (Ex 31:16, 17; Ro 10:4; Ga 5:18; Col 2:16, 17; Heb 9:15) And the ‘indefinitely lasting’ Aaronic priesthood similarly came to an end.—Ex 40:15; Heb 7:11-24; 10:1.
The same goes for aion, as found in the Greek scriptures.
In that particular scripture, the question is, should it be translated “everlasting/eternal” as is sometimes meant by the word, or should it be translated otherwise?
David….Aion, simply means age if it applys to eternal it is said as aion into the aions, if it is stated that way it would mean eternal , or the use everlasting to infer eternal. The greeks had no word for eternal. it should be rendered (AGE) or a period of time.
my 2 cents worth
As I understand it, eternal means having no beginning or end.
The lake of fire was prepared, made, created, formed or whatever, so it has a beginning…
Also as Mt 10 tells us the souls of the disobedient as well as the enemy (Devil)
and his angels (messengers) will be destroyed in it.
As death destroys the body so that given enough time it returns to the dust from which it formed.
So too, I believe, with the lake of fire, it may take a very long time, but eventually those souls are
annihilated so as to be found no more.Hi MF,
I do not think so from Rev20
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Malco….Knowing this that the fiery trial which has tried you as if some strange think has happened unto you. and again , for you shall all be salted with fire, and again for he shall baptize with spirit and Fire, and again i have come to start a fire, O how i wish it were kindled already and again our God is a consuming Fire.and again for he makes his minister a flaming fire. This is all not literal but Spiritual expressions Judgments.
The lake of Fire is (NOT) literal it is the intense Judgments of GOD which is need to cleanse a person and it will eventually save everyone. Ask yourself (HOW could YOU CAST HELL AND THE GRAVE INTO A LITERAL FIRE)> Its all symbolic of JUDGMENT. The whole book of Revelations was (signified) Rev 1:1, look up the word signified and you will find it means (Symbolized) You can never understand it if you take everything literal in it.
Nick….that to is symbolic, death can be in different form, for instance we are to put ourselves to death right now, right, but are we physically dead No, So those who have not put themselves to death in this life time will have to die to themselves in the next life, that is there wills will. This is what i believe is what the second death is about , they did not die in this life but will have to in the next. Death does not have to mean a physical death, just like the lake of fire is not a literal fire, but is symbolic of sever judgments of GOD. Who is the CONSUMING FIRE. Why? that GOD may be ALL and IN ALL. Only ONE WILL and other WILLS will be put to death for ever. imo
GB,
Why not believe scripture?
Nobody has a right to spiritualise what they cannot accept with their intellect do they?Nick…and nobody has a right to make literalistic a book that is said to be Symbolic either. But that doesn't seem to bother you right.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 02 2008,15:37) GB,
WE are not speaking of the times of testing but the lake of fire, the second death.
Amen. Jesus paid the price for the first death for all of humanity. We were all dead or separated from God because of our sins, but people who have not been saved and die in their sins, will be punished with the second death which is eternal separation from God. No, they will not burn forever and ever. They will be destroyed completely.Quote (942767 @ Oct. 04 2008,15:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 02 2008,15:37) GB,
WE are not speaking of the times of testing but the lake of fire, the second death.
Amen. Jesus paid the price for the first death for all of humanity. Hi 94,
Yousay
Hi 94,
You say
“We were all dead or separated from God because of our sins, but people who have not been saved and die in their sins, will be punished with the second death which is eternal separation from God.”So you suggest they live eternally
Then you say
” No, they will not burn forever and ever. They will be destroyed completely.”Are not these two thoughts mutually exclusive?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 04 2008,15:43) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 04 2008,15:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 02 2008,15:37) GB,
WE are not speaking of the times of testing but the lake of fire, the second death.
Amen. Jesus paid the price for the first death for all of humanity. Hi 94,
Yousay
Hi 94,
You say
“We were all dead or separated from God because of our sins, but people who have not been saved and die in their sins, will be punished with the second death which is eternal separation from God.”So you suggest they live eternally
Then you say
” No, they will not burn forever and ever. They will be destroyed completely.”Are not these two thoughts mutually exclusive?
Hi Nick:I'll have to think about that and give you my answer tomorrow.
Hi Nick:
What I suggest is eternal death until they are destroyed completely according to the punishment given them which will be according to their works. From the first death, mankind can be reconciled to God through our Lord Jesus who is the propitiation for our sins, but from the second death no one can be reconciled to God because there is no more sacrifice for sins.
Hi 94,
Those who are sons of God have already passed from death to life and do not face the judgement.
The decision as to who are sheep and who are goats in that judgement can be made at our death.
Goats are those who have refused the Son and being unmerciful are found outside the mercy of GodQuote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 05 2008,09:09) Hi 94,
Those who are sons of God have already passed from death to life and do not face the judgement.
The decision as to who are sheep and who are goats in that judgement can be made at our death.
Goats are those who have refused the Son and being unmerciful are found outside the mercy of God
Hi Nick:This is what I believe:
Quote Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.Quote but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 05 2008,10:39) Hi 94,
Mt 25 shows that some men will be saved despite their ignorance.“when did we see you?”
Hi Nick:I'm sorry I don't agree with your statement. It does not agree with the scriptures that I have just quoted.
Sheep are those who have followed the shepherd. The sheep did not know that by obeying the Word of God and helping those in the body of Christ, they were essentially doing these works unto him. He is the head of the body.
“Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”
Goats are simply those who have not followed the shepherd. They may have even professed to be Christians, but did not obey the Word of God.
“Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. “
To imply that people will be saved in spite of their ignorance through good works is unscriptual. Salvation is by faith that it may be by grace, not of works lest any man should boast. Of course, we know that faith without works is dead, but works without faith is also dead according to John 3:16-18.
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