The JW ''S ARE PREACHING ERROR

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2012,03:29)

Thank you again, Wakeup. We are almost there now.   If THE PERSON Jesus is known as “the Word of God”, and THE PERSON Jesus had glory alongside his God before the world was created, and all things are said to have been created through THE PERSON Jesus ( as well as through “the Word of God”), then doesn't it make sense that the Word who was with God in the beginning, and through whom all things were made……………IS “THE PERSON JESUS”?

Mike b.

Yes Jesus is the word that has glory with God from the beginning.Then the word was made flesh.He is still the word,but in the flesh.
The word before he was made flesh, is not named JESUS untill he was made flesh.In the beginning his name was the word of God. Are you still bogged down here,not going anywhere?

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 17 2012,14:53)

The word before he was made flesh, is not named JESUS untill he was made flesh.

What scripture tells you this?

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 17 2012,14:53)

Are you still bogged down here,not going anywhere?

We're slowly clarifying a few of your flawed statements from before, so we're getting there.  

It seems that you think Jesus IS the Word and was also CREATED BY the Word.  

If you would address the questions in my previous post to you (8th post on page 16), we can move forward in the direction of scriptural truth.  

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 16 2012,17:32)

Hi Mike, What about the verse where Jesus says that words are Spirit? (John 6:63) That cohesively fits with the “HolySpirit” being “the Word”, and also with “The Word” creating everything: as in the spirit of God moved upon the waters, and God said: ect, ect.

John 6:63 refers to words JESUS spoke to his disciples. Are you saying that JESUS, not GOD spoke, and things were created?

Ed, I'm really not interested in this discussion with you. The Holy Spirit is OF God, and not God Himself. The Word is Jesus, and not the Holy Spirit.

I have shown you all the scriptures already that disprove your understanding, but like Gene in the “Bodies” thread, you won't budge.

Keep your view if you like it, but leave me out of it, okay?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 18 2012,08:23)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 16 2012,17:32) Hi Mike, What about the verse where Jesus says that words are Spirit? (John 6:63) That cohesively fits with the “HolySpirit” being “the Word”, and also with “The Word” creating everything: as in the spirit of God moved upon the waters, and God said: ect, ect. John 6:63 refers to words JESUS spoke to his disciples.  Are you saying that JESUS, not GOD spoke, and things were created? Ed, I'm really not interested in this discussion with you.  The Holy Spirit is OF God, and not God Himself.  The Word is Jesus, and not the Holy Spirit. I have shown you all the scriptures already that disprove your understanding, but like Gene in the “Bodies” thread, you won't budge. Keep your view if you like it, but leave me out of it, okay?

Hi Mike,

                   God's word is, of God, not a person!

Titus 1:9 Holding fast “the faithful word” as he hath been taught, that he
may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 17 2012,21:24)

God's word is, of God, not a person!

God's WRITTEN word, the Bible, is not a person.

God's Word, as in His SPOKESMAN, is a person.

Ed, you don't have to believe it. It's just that I've spent MANY hours researching and posting scriptures to you already.

If you're not going to understand what everyone else in the world understands – that “the Word of God” in Rev 19:13 refers to JESUS – then what more can I do?

I've tried, and I'm done trying, okay?

[mikeboll64]

Wakeup?

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 18 2012,08:16)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 17 2012,14:53) The word before he was made flesh, is not named JESUS untill he was made flesh. What scripture tells you this? Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 17 2012,14:53) Are you still bogged down here,not going anywhere? We're slowly clarifying a few of your flawed statements from before, so we're getting there.   It seems that you think Jesus IS the Word and was also CREATED BY the Word.   If you would address the questions in my previous post to you (8th post on page 16), we can move forward in the direction of scriptural truth.   peace, mike

Mike B.

Did I not mention before, that the word of God is not singular?
The holy bible is called the word of God(as singular),but is it?
The holy bible contains many.many words.
Everytime God speaks,thats his word.His word is not just the one word.Is your word one?

If someone says to you: I hope you keep your word mike:
Does it mean just one word; or many?

The MAN JESUS WAS CREATED BY THE WORD: HAS TO BE.
FOR WITHOUT HIM(THE WORD) WAS NOT ANYTHING MADE THAT WAS MADE.
Are you trying to use your intelligent mind,to solve spiritual mysteries?

peace.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

So Jesus IS the Word……………AND was created BY the Word?

Hmmmm…………..

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 19 2012,13:23)

So Jesus IS the Word……………AND was created BY the Word? Hmmmm…………..

Mike B.

God commanded (with his word)The womb to conceive.
And the word became flesh.(from spirit to flesh)and he was called Jesus,a person with an identity: if he would have lived today,he would have his pasport; his birth certificate,his drivers licence,etc.

This man that came from above,died,and given a new body(spirit body,glorified body.) and is sitting next to his father.

Gods word is not just one single word; the whole bible is the word of God. is it just one word? no but many.

This man is Gods word; but now given all authority,and power.
He does not have to ask his father for permission anymore.

peace.

Pslm33:6.BY THE WORD OF THE LORD WERE THE HEAVENS MADE; AND ALL THE HOST OF THEM,—BY THE BREATH OF HIS MOUTH.—(his word)

WAKEUP..

[mikeboll64]

Hi Wakeup,

It was the PERSON named “Jesus” who asked to be returned to the same glory he had ALONGSIDE his God before the world began, right?

See, before the beginning, there was but One – God Almighty. Then in the beginning, God brought forth Jesus as the first of His works.

After that, God created all things THROUGH the one He first brought forth. All things are said in scripture to have been created through “the Word”. And through “our Lord Jesus Christ”. And through “the Son of God”.

The Word has ALWAYS been Jesus, and Jesus has ALWAYS been the Word.

The Word and his God have ALWAYS been two, separate and individual beings. (Well, at least ever since God brought the Word forth as the first of His works.)

And yes, I understand that “word” often refers to many words God (or anyone) has spoken or written. But when we speak of Jesus as “the Word” (main spokesman for God), we are speaking of ONE individual PERSON.

peace,
mike

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,11:44)

Hi Wakeup, It was the PERSON named “Jesus” who asked to be returned to the same glory he had ALONGSIDE his God before the world began, right? See, before the beginning, there was but One – God Almighty.  Then in the beginning, God brought forth Jesus as the first of His works.   After that, God created all things THROUGH the one He first brought forth.  All things are said in scripture to have been created through “the Word”.  And through “our Lord Jesus Christ”.  And through “the Son of God”. The Word has ALWAYS been Jesus, and Jesus has ALWAYS been the Word. The Word and his God have ALWAYS been two, separate and individual beings.  (Well, at least ever since God brought the Word forth as the first of His works.) And yes, I understand that “word” often refers to many words God (or anyone) has spoken or written.  But when we speak of Jesus as “the Word” (main spokesman for God), we are speaking of ONE individual PERSON. peace, mike

MIkeb.

Was there a time when God started creating?

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2012,00:49)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,11:44) Hi Wakeup, It was the PERSON named “Jesus” who asked to be returned to the same glory he had ALONGSIDE his God before the world began, right? See, before the beginning, there was but One – God Almighty.  Then in the beginning, God brought forth Jesus as the first of His works.   After that, God created all things THROUGH the one He first brought forth.  All things are said in scripture to have been created through “the Word”.  And through “our Lord Jesus Christ”.  And through “the Son of God”. The Word has ALWAYS been Jesus, and Jesus has ALWAYS been the Word. The Word and his God have ALWAYS been two, separate and individual beings.  (Well, at least ever since God brought the Word forth as the first of His works.) And yes, I understand that “word” often refers to many words God (or anyone) has spoken or written.  But when we speak of Jesus as “the Word” (main spokesman for God), we are speaking of ONE individual PERSON. peace, mike MIkeb. Was there a time when God started creating?

wakeup

think you and Mike and I are there ,here,and I am the oldies so before me you guys were NOT,right ?yes

just go back fare enough and see

Pierre

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,02:33)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2012,00:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,11:44) Hi Wakeup, It was the PERSON named “Jesus” who asked to be returned to the same glory he had ALONGSIDE his God before the world began, right? See, before the beginning, there was but One – God Almighty.  Then in the beginning, God brought forth Jesus as the first of His works.   After that, God created all things THROUGH the one He first brought forth.  All things are said in scripture to have been created through “the Word”.  And through “our Lord Jesus Christ”.  And through “the Son of God”. The Word has ALWAYS been Jesus, and Jesus has ALWAYS been the Word. The Word and his God have ALWAYS been two, separate and individual beings.  (Well, at least ever since God brought the Word forth as the first of His works.) And yes, I understand that “word” often refers to many words God (or anyone) has spoken or written.  But when we speak of Jesus as “the Word” (main spokesman for God), we are speaking of ONE individual PERSON. peace, mike MIkeb. Was there a time when God started creating? wakeup think you and Mike and I are there ,here,and I am the oldies so before me you guys were NOT,right ?yes just go back fare enough and see Pierre

Hi Pierre.

I think no one is older than me here,I am a fossil???

But I dont understand what you are trying to say.

My question to Mike was; was there a time(beginning)when God started creating?What did he create first?

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2012,21:04)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,02:33) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2012,00:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,11:44) Hi Wakeup, It was the PERSON named “Jesus” who asked to be returned to the same glory he had ALONGSIDE his God before the world began, right? See, before the beginning, there was but One – God Almighty.  Then in the beginning, God brought forth Jesus as the first of His works.   After that, God created all things THROUGH the one He first brought forth.  All things are said in scripture to have been created through “the Word”.  And through “our Lord Jesus Christ”.  And through “the Son of God”. The Word has ALWAYS been Jesus, and Jesus has ALWAYS been the Word. The Word and his God have ALWAYS been two, separate and individual beings.  (Well, at least ever since God brought the Word forth as the first of His works.) And yes, I understand that “word” often refers to many words God (or anyone) has spoken or written.  But when we speak of Jesus as “the Word” (main spokesman for God), we are speaking of ONE individual PERSON. peace, mike MIkeb. Was there a time when God started creating? wakeup think you and Mike and I are there ,here,and I am the oldies so before me you guys were NOT,right ?yes just go back fare enough and see Pierre Hi Pierre. I think no one is older than me here,I am a fossil??? But I dont understand what you are trying to say. My question to Mike was; was there a time(beginning)when God started creating?What did he create first? wakeup.

wakeup

the beginning wen God start his creation there was no time ,and it does not matter ,this does not influences the plan of God,

the fact that their is one does need our attention,

when is irrelevant ,what scriptures saying that the first thing he created was another being with his own part or structure,and so it is that being who was first created contain all what was needed to create all other thing by him or through him,

according to scriptures it was the plan of God to create within or from the being he himself created (this process always take from one to give to the other)this being GOD CALLED HIM “THE WORD OF GOD'the spokemessenger to all what will become a creation,angels,man,all went well until sin move in were it should not have been,from then on God ad made the sacrifice for his only son “the word of God” well sin ad enter not only the earth but also heaven ,so this problem could not be solved by a human this his ridicule to think so,can men save angels or punish them?no.
for those reasons the savior has to be of a higher status above angels but not God the creator ,because the creator did not created things(only the son was created for God ) for him but for the son ,so wen thing went wrong it was the son that has to intervene if he wanted it to do it (scriptures are saying he did wanted)

the cost to earn the right to save all of creation was for the son of God to come down to earth as a man and give up his man like live ,in exchange for the right to live to the descendant of Adam,this is what took place some were in the year 29 AD or so.this done THE WORD OF GOD his now in power the second to god,his father ,

but before he left the earth he ask us all to believe in him and by this ask us to do good deeds and have faith in what he told us trough his disciples so that he may give everlasting live to us who believe .

soon the end will be at the door and times so hard that no one would want to believe ,or even listen to what is of God ,this would be a test on our faith so great that many will fall ,

and so only those who have stayed faithful until the end will be saved,

this need preparation to strengthening our own faith so that it will stand ,deep in the rock of God son.

Pierre

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,15:26)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2012,21:04) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,02:33) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2012,00:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,11:44) Hi Wakeup, It was the PERSON named “Jesus” who asked to be returned to the same glory he had ALONGSIDE his God before the world began, right? See, before the beginning, there was but One – God Almighty.  Then in the beginning, God brought forth Jesus as the first of His works.   After that, God created all things THROUGH the one He first brought forth.  All things are said in scripture to have been created through “the Word”.  And through “our Lord Jesus Christ”.  And through “the Son of God”. The Word has ALWAYS been Jesus, and Jesus has ALWAYS been the Word. The Word and his God have ALWAYS been two, separate and individual beings.  (Well, at least ever since God brought the Word forth as the first of His works.) And yes, I understand that “word” often refers to many words God (or anyone) has spoken or written.  But when we speak of Jesus as “the Word” (main spokesman for God), we are speaking of ONE individual PERSON. peace, mike MIkeb. Was there a time when God started creating? wakeup think you and Mike and I are there ,here,and I am the oldies so before me you guys were NOT,right ?yes just go back fare enough and see Pierre Hi Pierre. I think no one is older than me here,I am a fossil??? But I dont understand what you are trying to say. My question to Mike was; was there a time(beginning)when God started creating?What did he create first? wakeup. wakeup the beginning wen God start his creation there was no time ,and it does not matter ,this does not influences the plan of God, the fact that their is one does need our attention, when is irrelevant ,what scriptures saying that the first thing he created was another being with his own part or structure,and so it is that being who was first created contain all what was needed to create all other thing by him  or through him, according to scriptures it was the plan of God to create within or from the being he himself created (this process always take from one to give to the other)this being GOD CALLED HIM “THE WORD OF GOD'the spokemessenger to all what will become a creation,angels,man,all went well until sin move in were it should not have been,from then on God ad made the sacrifice for his only son “the word of God” well sin ad enter not only the earth but also heaven ,so this problem could not be solved by a human this his ridicule to think so,can men save angels or punish them?no. for those reasons the savior has to be of a higher status above angels but not God the creator ,because the creator did not created things(only the son was created for God ) for him but for the son ,so wen thing went wrong it was the son that has to intervene if he wanted it to do it (scriptures are saying he did wanted) the cost to earn the right to save all of creation was for the son of God to come down to earth as a man and give up his man like live ,in exchange for the right to live to the descendant of Adam,this is what took place some were in the year 29 AD or so.this done THE WORD OF GOD his now in power the second to god,his father , but before he left the earth he ask us all to believe in him and by this ask us to do good deeds and have faith in what he told us trough his disciples so that he may give everlasting live to us who believe . soon the end will be at the door and times so hard that no one would want to believe ,or even listen to what is of God ,this would be a test on our faith so great that many will fall , and so only those who have stayed faithful until the end will be saved, this need preparation to strengthening our own faith so that it will stand ,deep in the rock of God son. Pierre

Pierre.

Why would God create A creature to do the rest of Creation?
why cant God do all the creating HIM SELF?

Everything was made by the word of God,(his breath)pslm33:6.

Without his breath(word) was nothing made that was made.

But you say, No; He created a creature first(jesus)(the word) then he(the word) created all things.

Please consentrate on this scripture.ps 33:6.
BY THE WORD OF THE LORD WERE THE HEAVENS MADE; AND ALL THE HOST OF THEM,BY THE BREATH OF HIS MOUTH.

GOD DID NOT CREATE HIS BREATH.GOD DID NOT CREATE HIS WORD; HIS WORD IS INSIDE HIM FROM EVERLASTING.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

wakeup

.

Quote

Everything was made by the word of God,(his breath)pslm33:6.

Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made,
their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
Ps 33:7 He gathers the waters of the sea into jars;
he puts the deep into storehouses

is this allegoric ? or not ??

Quote

GOD DID NOT CREATE HIS BREATH.GOD DID NOT CREATE HIS WORD; HIS WORD IS INSIDE HIM FROM EVERLASTING.

does God as a spirit does he needs to breath ?? is there flesh that it needs oxygen

Pierre

[terraricca]

wakeup

Quote

But you say, No; He created a creature first(jesus)(the word) then he(the word) created all things.

Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light.
Col 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

The Supremacy of Christ

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
Jn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Rev 1:2(John) who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

Rev 19:13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

MT 8:29 And they cried out, saying, “ What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”

LK 4:3 And the devil said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.”

JN 3:18 “ He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

there are only one son of God

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2012,00:49)

MIkeb. Was there a time when God started creating?

Yes.

You said to Pierre:

Quote

Why would God create A creature to do the rest of Creation?

That's not what the scriptures teach.  They teach that Jesus was the first creation, and then GOD created all other things THROUGH Jesus.

God is still the ONE doing the creating.  It's just that after He created Jesus first, He then created all other things through Jesus.

He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another. – Tertullian

Wakeup, can you argue with the logic of that statement?

[Wakeup]

MikeB.

If the word was the first creation by God,you will go against scripture.

Isiah44:8.—Is there a God beside me? yea,there is no God; i know not any.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,16:47)

wakeup . Quote Everything was made by the word of God,(his breath)pslm33:6. Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth. Ps 33:7 He gathers the waters of the sea into jars; he puts the deep into storehouses is this allegoric ? or not ?? Quote GOD DID NOT CREATE HIS BREATH.GOD DID NOT CREATE HIS WORD; HIS WORD IS INSIDE HIM FROM EVERLASTING. does God as a spirit does he needs to breath ?? is there flesh that it needs oxygen Pierre

pierre.

how did God create his first creature, if not by his breath(word)?
Can you explain?

God uses the word (breath) as explaining to us humans,that it is his word.
When he said ''Let there be light''; he was speaking his word(commanding the light to appear.)

wakeup.

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