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ED J said:
Quote Are you suggesting that Jesus (according to Wake-up) came out of God's mouth? Don't act dumb Ed! God does not have a literal mouth and the word “Logos” in reference to Jesus is a figure of speech. To the Greeks the Logos meant “MIND” or “reason.” It should say, “In the beginning was the MIND and the MIND was with God and the MIND was God.”
Was God ever without a mind Eddie? In the flesh He was merely the MIND expressed before men.
Grow up Ed and start discoursing like you are for real.
Jack
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2011,02:50) yes I know angels are messengers,in fact you will read it in my post
That's close to what I asked you. I want to know if you realized the very word “aggelos”, from which we get “angel”, MEANS “messenger”. It is not a case of angels BEING messengers, as you've stated. It is a case of the very word MEANING “messenger”. Do you understand this?Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2011,02:50) THE WORD MADE MICHAELTHE ANGEL,AND THE ANGELS;HOW CAN THE ANGEL MICHAEL BE THE WORD?? Please explain THIS TO ME BEFORE WE GO ANYWHERE.
I agree with you that Michael was one of the angels made THROUGH the Word of God, who is Jesus. Jesus didn't MAKE Michael and the other angels, they were made by God THROUGH Jesus. As Tertullian brilliantly pointed out in one of his writings:He who makes is one, and he THROUGH WHOM the thing is made is ANOTHER. (Emphasis mine)
Do you agree that “the Word of God” is Jesus?
peace,
mikeQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ Dec. 25 2011,05:44) To the Greeks the Logos meant “MIND” or “reason.
Jack,Could you show your source that tells you this? Because I've seen the word “logos” used many times in scripture to refer to any spoken or written word by anyone. For example:
1 Corinthians 2:4 NKJV ©
And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,Both bolded words above are the word “logos”. Which one of them do you suppose refers to Paul's “mind” or “reason”?
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,19:21) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 24 2011,17:24) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,15:38) Hi Wake-up, Thank you for adding clearing to show us all your position.
Your latest post, however, presents me with another question…Do you believe this part of John 1:1: …, “and the Word was God.” ?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Edj.Maybe I can make it more clear if I use an example.
Ok, we are created in the image of God,and we also are given each of us our word. My word is me,and your word is you.
but your word is not in charge of you, but you are in charge of your word.Your word can NEVER be in charge of you.
if you are a king in charge, you also can send your word to an other country; and your word will be spoken in that country.Anyone that dishonour your word is dihonouring you.
And so also is Gods word send to another country,(earth).
And the world has dishonoured Gods word.your word is inside you,but not incharge of you.
you are in charge.Just like Jesus the word of God is not in charge of God.(My father is greater than I)(I can do nothing by my self)(the one who sent is greater than the one who is send)The servant is not greater than the master.You and your word are one.Gods word has life in him,all are created by Gods word(Let there be light:word spoken,and there was light.
God can make his word flesh,and he did,and his name is Jesus.A king will give his command,and it will be done.
The kings breath is his word,when he speaks.Everything is made by the breath of his mouth Pslm33:6.
Is this clear now?Thank you seeker of truth.
wakeup.
Hi Wake-up, clear as mud.Quote My word is me,and your word is you.
I don't get it, you say… “My word is me, and your word is you”
…then why wouldn't God's word also be God as John 1:1 says it is?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Thank you EdJ.It is fine, maybe next time you can understand.
wakeup.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Dec. 25 2011,22:44) ED J said: Quote Are you suggesting that Jesus (according to Wake-up) came out of God's mouth? Don't act dumb Ed! God does not have a literal mouth and the word “Logos” in reference to Jesus is a figure of speech. To the Greeks the Logos meant “MIND” or “reason.” It should say, “In the beginning was the MIND and the MIND was with God and the MIND was God.”
Was God ever without a mind Eddie? In the flesh He was merely the MIND expressed before men.
Grow up Ed and start discoursing like you are for real.
Jack
Hi Jack,The point is: “The Word” of God is the “HolySpirit” of God, not someone else as religion claims
And I will make my point by whatever means necessary. Even by asking so-called dumb questions.Can't be any simpler than …”And the Spirit of God moved
upon the face of the waters. And God said“… (Genesis 1:2-3) (compare with John 1:1)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,17:05) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,19:21) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 24 2011,17:24) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,15:38) Hi Wake-up, Thank you for adding clearing to show us all your position.
Your latest post, however, presents me with another question…Do you believe this part of John 1:1: …, “and the Word was God.” ?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Edj.Maybe I can make it more clear if I use an example.
Ok, we are created in the image of God,and we also are given each of us our word. My word is me,and your word is you.
but your word is not in charge of you, but you are in charge of your word.Your word can NEVER be in charge of you.
if you are a king in charge, you also can send your word to an other country; and your word will be spoken in that country.Anyone that dishonour your word is dihonouring you.
And so also is Gods word send to another country,(earth).
And the world has dishonoured Gods word.your word is inside you,but not incharge of you.
you are in charge.Just like Jesus the word of God is not in charge of God.(My father is greater than I)(I can do nothing by my self)(the one who sent is greater than the one who is send)The servant is not greater than the master.You and your word are one.Gods word has life in him,all are created by Gods word(Let there be light:word spoken,and there was light.
God can make his word flesh,and he did,and his name is Jesus.A king will give his command,and it will be done.
The kings breath is his word,when he speaks.Everything is made by the breath of his mouth Pslm33:6.
Is this clear now?Thank you seeker of truth.
wakeup.
Hi Wake-up, clear as mud.Quote My word is me,and your word is you.
I don't get it, you say… “My word is me, and your word is you”
…then why wouldn't God's word also be God as John 1:1 says it is?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Thank you EdJ.It is fine, maybe next time you can understand.
wakeup.
Hi Wake-up,Then you don't believe …, “and the Word was God.” do you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2011,01:10) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2011,02:50) yes I know angels are messengers,in fact you will read it in my post
That's close to what I asked you. I want to know if you realized the very word “aggelos”, from which we get “angel”, MEANS “messenger”. It is not a case of angels BEING messengers, as you've stated. It is a case of the very word MEANING “messenger”. Do you understand this?Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2011,02:50) THE WORD MADE MICHAELTHE ANGEL,AND THE ANGELS;HOW CAN THE ANGEL MICHAEL BE THE WORD?? Please explain THIS TO ME BEFORE WE GO ANYWHERE.
I agree with you that Michael was one of the angels made THROUGH the Word of God, who is Jesus. Jesus didn't MAKE Michael and the other angels, they were made by God THROUGH Jesus. As Tertullian brilliantly pointed out in one of his writings:He who makes is one, and he THROUGH WHOM the thing is made is ANOTHER. (Emphasis mine)
Do you agree that “the Word of God” is Jesus?
peace,
mike
Mike.Yes i agree the word of God is Jesus. And the word was made flesh and dwelt among us. We are getting somewhere.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,02:56) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2011,04:11) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2011,09:41) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 24 2011,19:33) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2011,02:26) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 24 2011,17:24) if you are a king in charge, you also can send your word to an other country; and your word will be spoken in that country.
Hi Wake-up,Isaiah 55:11 So shall “my word” be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Are you suggesting that Jesus (according to Wake-up) came out of God's mouth?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Or used DIGITAL SOUND PROGRAM ??
Dont be like that George.
The word was made flesh and dwelt among us.jhn1:14.
wakeupdo you not think ,that Christ as already made his voice call to all the world ? there are more bibles than people on the planet ,and in all the country's of the globe ,
does it matter that people listen to it or not ,when the guard on a tower screams the alert,do all people hear it act on it ?? no
some do some do not ,
Pierre
Hi George;It does not mean that we have to stop telling the gospel and teaching,if one will come and listen ,it is good news.
every time one comes and follow the Lord; The angels in heaven all rejoice, and praise God.wakeup.
wakeupagreed ,this is true ,but my name is not Georg
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 26 2011,21:32) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,02:56) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2011,04:11) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2011,09:41) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 24 2011,19:33) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2011,02:26) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 24 2011,17:24) if you are a king in charge, you also can send your word to an other country; and your word will be spoken in that country.
Hi Wake-up,Isaiah 55:11 So shall “my word” be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Are you suggesting that Jesus (according to Wake-up) came out of God's mouth?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Or used DIGITAL SOUND PROGRAM ??
Dont be like that George.
The word was made flesh and dwelt among us.jhn1:14.
wakeupdo you not think ,that Christ as already made his voice call to all the world ? there are more bibles than people on the planet ,and in all the country's of the globe ,
does it matter that people listen to it or not ,when the guard on a tower screams the alert,do all people hear it act on it ?? no
some do some do not ,
Pierre
Hi George;It does not mean that we have to stop telling the gospel and teaching,if one will come and listen ,it is good news.
every time one comes and follow the Lord; The angels in heaven all rejoice, and praise God.wakeup.
wakeupagreed ,this is true ,but my name is not Georg
Pierre
MY APOLOGIES PIERE.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2011,01:10) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2011,02:50) yes I know angels are messengers,in fact you will read it in my post
That's close to what I asked you. I want to know if you realized the very word “aggelos”, from which we get “angel”, MEANS “messenger”. It is not a case of angels BEING messengers, as you've stated. It is a case of the very word MEANING “messenger”. Do you understand this?Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2011,02:50) THE WORD MADE MICHAELTHE ANGEL,AND THE ANGELS;HOW CAN THE ANGEL MICHAEL BE THE WORD?? Please explain THIS TO ME BEFORE WE GO ANYWHERE.
I agree with you that Michael was one of the angels made THROUGH the Word of God, who is Jesus. Jesus didn't MAKE Michael and the other angels, they were made by God THROUGH Jesus. As Tertullian brilliantly pointed out in one of his writings:He who makes is one, and he THROUGH WHOM the thing is made is ANOTHER. (Emphasis mine)
Do you agree that “the Word of God” is Jesus?
peace,
mikeQuote (Wakeup @ Dec. 27 2011,00:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2011,01:10) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2011,02:50) yes I know angels are messengers,in fact you will read it in my post
That's close to what I asked you. I want to know if you realized the very word “aggelos”, from which we get “angel”, MEANS “messenger”. It is not a case of angels BEING messengers, as you've stated. It is a case of the very word MEANING “messenger”. Do you understand this?Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2011,02:50) THE WORD MADE MICHAELTHE ANGEL,AND THE ANGELS;HOW CAN THE ANGEL MICHAEL BE THE WORD?? Please explain THIS TO ME BEFORE WE GO ANYWHERE.
I agree with you that Michael was one of the angels made THROUGH the Word of God, who is Jesus. Jesus didn't MAKE Michael and the other angels, they were made by God THROUGH Jesus. As Tertullian brilliantly pointed out in one of his writings:He who makes is one, and he THROUGH WHOM the thing is made is ANOTHER. (Emphasis mine)
Do you agree that “the Word of God” is Jesus?
peace,
mikeQuote (Wakeup @ Dec. 27 2011,00:22) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 27 2011,00:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2011,01:10) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2011,02:50) yes I know angels are messengers,in fact you will read it in my post
That's close to what I asked you. I want to know if you realized the very word “aggelos”, from which we get “angel”, MEANS “messenger”. It is not a case of angels BEING messengers, as you've stated. It is a case of the very word MEANING “messenger”. Do you understand this?Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2011,02:50) THE WORD MADE MICHAELTHE ANGEL,AND THE ANGELS;HOW CAN THE ANGEL MICHAEL BE THE WORD?? Please explain THIS TO ME BEFORE WE GO ANYWHERE.
I agree with you that Michael was one of the angels made THROUGH the Word of God, who is Jesus. Jesus didn't MAKE Michael and the other angels, they were made by God THROUGH Jesus. As Tertullian brilliantly pointed out in one of his writings:He who makes is one, and he THROUGH WHOM the thing is made is ANOTHER. (Emphasis mine)
Do you agree that “the Word of God” is Jesus?
peace,
mike
sorry I did something wrong the link i tried to post did not work.Wakeup,
WHY?
I watched the video and must ask you why radical propaganda like this has any place on a Christian chat website.Is this your theory:
“Charles Russell was a freak, therefore nothing he ever said about the scriptures can be true”? Or “Charles Russell was a freemason, therefore he was unable to read scripture”?
This kind of inflammatory propaganda is below anyone with a serious interest in scriptures.
I have offered you before to go the the “Blatant Corruption in the NWT” thread on this site and be the first one to post a scripture that the NWT translated wrong.
If and when the JWs are wrong, we'd do well to fight them with the very words of scripture, not with cheesy propaganda and implications of them being a cult.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,07:25) sorry I did something wrong the link i tried to post
Posting it at all was wrong.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2011,01:06) Wakeup, WHY?
I watched the video and must ask you why radical propaganda like this has any place on a Christian chat website.Is this your theory:
“Charles Russell was a freak, therefore nothing he ever said about the scriptures can be true”? Or “Charles Russell was a freemason, therefore he was unable to read scripture”?
This kind of inflammatory propaganda is below anyone with a serious interest in scriptures.
I have offered you before to go the the “Blatant Corruption in the NWT” thread on this site and be the first one to post a scripture that the NWT translated wrong.
If and when the JWs are wrong, we'd do well to fight them with the very words of scripture, not with cheesy propaganda and implications of them being a cult.
Hi Mike B.Will you follow a christian church that has the foundation built on the freemason doctrine? when the roots are bad the tree and branches are bad also.
A true shristian church should build the church on the bible alone.If not; God will close their eyes,like what he did to the Jews.Everyone can read the scriptures they all do, but can they understand and see the truth? Only God can open the eyes.
But with a foundation like that; NEVER.Dont forget that the Jw's criticise the catholic church also, going back to king constatine. We as christians must try to help them and open the prison so they can be free, and read the bible for them selves,without the watchtower next to it.
For they depend heavily on the watchtower and the awake magazine.
They are sincere in their hearts,but led astray; we must try to help Mike; I am not against the flock, but the organisation,dont get me wrong.They are nice people.Their dark secrets must be revealed, for the flock to know,because they( the leaders) like to keep it in the dark.They look like white washed tombs from the outside,but the inside is full of dead mans bones.They are not the only ones: Mormons,scientology,are some of them.
Dont forget its not the followers,but their leaders, the org.
Sorry if I have offend you: peace.wakeup.
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,19:26) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 24 2011,17:24) if you are a king in charge, you also can send your word to an other country; and your word will be spoken in that country.
Hi Wake-up,Isaiah 55:11 So shall “my word” be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Are you suggesting that Jesus (according to Wake-up) came out of God's mouth?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Yes EDJ.The word came out of Gods mouth, and made it flesh.
Yes ALL came out of Gods mouth. the heavens,and the earth,and the light: LET THERE BE LIGHT ,AND THERE WAS LIGHT.
The angels came out of Gods mouth also.
Without the WORD was not anything made that was made.Lucifer came out of his mouth also.Isiah 54:16—-I have created the waster to destroy.
ALL MADE BY THE WORD.
We must submit to the truth, and not any doctrine.——peace to you.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,09:40) Will you follow a christian church that has the foundation built on the freemason doctrine?
1. I follow scripture, and nothing more.
2. The JWs organization is built upon their interpretation of scripture, and nothing more.
3. The image on the pyramid in your video isn't even the symbol of the freemasons anyway.
4. The Watchtower magazine with a naked lady doctored on to it is a fake, and preposterous.Here you are, Wakeup, using a totally false video to slam an organization, while at the same time telling me how bad THEIR organization is.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,09:40) when the roots are bad the tree and branches are bad also.
And who is displaying bad roots here, Wakeup? Wasn't it YOU who linked a biased, lying video in an attempt to slam an organization?Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,09:40) Dont forget that the Jw's criticise the catholic church also, going back to king constatine.
And don't you? Or do you think that God IS a Trinity and that we should worship Mary as the Mother of God?Listen Wakeup, I agree that Jesus is not Michael. But unlike you, I am able to see exactly how the JWs come to that interpretation of the scriptures. And if not for the Book of Enoch, I might also side with them on that issue.
Your main point for refuting the “Jesus is Michael” theory is that Michael is an angel, and therefore was created through Jesus. But you forget that Jesus is also an angel of God, so your point about Michael still remains about Jesus.
Your point is: How was Michael created through himself?
And that point still remains for Jesus: How was Jesus, an angel of God, created through himself?I don't agree with every interpretation of scripture that the JWs have come up with. But I can see each time exactly HOW they SENSIBLY came to their interpretation. So this is a matter of you and I coming to a different interpretation than the JWs, and NOT a matter of them invoking Satan, or Free Masons, or being a cult. They are people reading the same exact scriptures we read, and coming to different understandings of those scriptures – the same as most of the people on this site.
For example, Ed thinks the Holy Spirit OF God is God Himself. He thinks the Word OF God is God Himself. Shall we label him as a cult leader, influenced by Satan, and post derogatory and FALSE videos about him, designed to MISLEAD others? Or shall we tell the TRUTH of the matter, and fight him with scriptures about his perceived misunderstandings?
Many people here don't believe Jesus pre-existed his life on earth. Are they Satanists? Are they members of a cult based on Egyptian black arts? NO. They are people who read the same scriptures as us, and come to different conclusions than we did.
But here's the clincher, Wake up: We can easily show Ed and the non-preexisters to be SCRIPTURALLY wrong. Try that with the JWs. Without the Book of Enoch to fall back on, tell me how you could SCRIPTURALLY prove that Jesus is not the same person as Michael the Archangel.
Now, I've offered you a challenge to show one scripture from the NWT that was flawed, biased, or translated in opposition to the rules of Greek or Hebrew grammar.
I will now extend my offer to the JWs interpretations of scripture. Show me one of their doctrines that is so against scripture that they must be a cult to believe it.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2011,03:48) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,09:40) Will you follow a christian church that has the foundation built on the freemason doctrine?
1. I follow scripture, and nothing more.
2. The JWs organization is built upon their interpretation of scripture, and nothing more.
3. The image on the pyramid in your video isn't even the symbol of the freemasons anyway.
4. The Watchtower magazine with a naked lady doctored on to it is a fake, and preposterous.Here you are, Wakeup, using a totally false video to slam an organization, while at the same time telling me how bad THEIR organization is.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,09:40) when the roots are bad the tree and branches are bad also.
And who is displaying bad roots here, Wakeup? Wasn't it YOU who linked a biased, lying video in an attempt to slam an organization?Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,09:40) Dont forget that the Jw's criticise the catholic church also, going back to king constatine.
And don't you? Or do you think that God IS a Trinity and that we should worship Mary as the Mother of God?Listen Wakeup, I agree that Jesus is not Michael. But unlike you, I am able to see exactly how the JWs come to that interpretation of the scriptures. And if not for the Book of Enoch, I might also side with them on that issue.
Your main point for refuting the “Jesus is Michael” theory is that Michael is an angel, and therefore was created through Jesus. But you forget that Jesus is also an angel of God, so your point about Michael still remains about Jesus.
Your point is: How was Michael created through himself?
And that point still remains for Jesus: How was Jesus, an angel of God, created through himself?I don't agree with every interpretation of scripture that the JWs have come up with. But I can see each time exactly HOW they SENSIBLY came to their interpretation. So this is a matter of you and I coming to a different interpretation than the JWs, and NOT a matter of them invoking Satan, or Free Masons, or being a cult. They are people reading the same exact scriptures we read, and coming to different understandings of those scriptures – the same as most of the people on this site.
For example, Ed thinks the Holy Spirit OF God is God Himself. He thinks the Word OF God is God Himself. Shall we label him as a cult leader, influenced by Satan, and post derogatory and FALSE videos about him, designed to MISLEAD others? Or shall we tell the TRUTH of the matter, and fight him with scriptures about his perceived misunderstandings?
Many people here don't believe Jesus pre-existed his life on earth. Are they Satanists? Are they members of a cult based on Egyptian black arts? NO. They are people who read the same scriptures as us, and come to different conclusions than we did.
But here's the clincher, Wake up: We can easily show Ed and the non-preexisters to be SCRIPTURALLY wrong. Try that with the JWs. Without the Book of Enoch to fall back on, tell me how you could SCRIPTURALLY prove that Jesus is not the same person as Michael the Archangel.
Now, I've offered you a challenge to show one scripture from the NWT that was flawed, biased, or translated in opposition to the rules of Greek or Hebrew grammar.
I will now extend my offer to the JWs interpretations of scripture. Show me one of their doctrines that is so against scripture that they must be a cult to believe it.
Sorry to upset you Bradda.
No heart feelings.As I have said before the root is bad the whole tree is bad.
NOT THE FOLLOWERS,BUT THE ORG.Many read the scriptures and have different interpretation yes, but did I ever say that they are bad? No but misled Ok.
we must try to bring them back to the right path, thats all,not accusing them,they are nice people.Did not Jesus say ''seek and you shall find? so we can find,its not impossible.Now you will say,how do you know you are right and they are wrong; I know that different doctrines are not ALL right, only one is right,the truth.How do we know WE have the truth? Well thats the beauty of the scriptures,if we manage to put all the scriptures together with no flaws,and no cheating or twisting the word,all scriptures in harmony than we know that we have the truth. Truth does exist,we must seek.
We are now living in the time of the apostasy,and it will get worse.You have read the book of enoch you should know.
Lets try to get the bro''s and sist. back to the truth.
Too many doctrines out there inspired by devils,1 tim4:1.
You just believe what your heart tells you.
Re the jw''s bible:They use to have the king james,I know,I have studied with them for 2yrs,but I am not a jw. i know what they teach. They teach the watch tower and the awake. Now they use there own translation translated by Johannes Greber he is also in the occult.his translation of john 1:1 is ; and the word was A GOD. As a matter of fact I had an elder coming a few wednesdays discussing scripture,
and i totally was amazed about their wording,it totally gives another meaning to what God is saying,but we are still friends
To them all the churches; is the harlot in rev 17.good night bro.
wakeup.
Good night bro.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2011,03:48) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,09:40) Will you follow a christian church that has the foundation built on the freemason doctrine?
1. I follow scripture, and nothing more.
2. The JWs organization is built upon their interpretation of scripture, and nothing more.
3. The image on the pyramid in your video isn't even the symbol of the freemasons anyway.
4. The Watchtower magazine with a naked lady doctored on to it is a fake, and preposterous.Here you are, Wakeup, using a totally false video to slam an organization, while at the same time telling me how bad THEIR organization is.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,09:40) when the roots are bad the tree and branches are bad also.
And who is displaying bad roots here, Wakeup? Wasn't it YOU who linked a biased, lying video in an attempt to slam an organization?Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,09:40) Dont forget that the Jw's criticise the catholic church also, going back to king constatine.
And don't you? Or do you think that God IS a Trinity and that we should worship Mary as the Mother of God?Listen Wakeup, I agree that Jesus is not Michael. But unlike you, I am able to see exactly how the JWs come to that interpretation of the scriptures. And if not for the Book of Enoch, I might also side with them on that issue.
Your main point for refuting the “Jesus is Michael” theory is that Michael is an angel, and therefore was created through Jesus. But you forget that Jesus is also an angel of God, so your point about Michael still remains about Jesus.
Your point is: How was Michael created through himself?
And that point still remains for Jesus: How was Jesus, an angel of God, created through himself?I don't agree with every interpretation of scripture that the JWs have come up with. But I can see each time exactly HOW they SENSIBLY came to their interpretation. So this is a matter of you and I coming to a different interpretation than the JWs, and NOT a matter of them invoking Satan, or Free Masons, or being a cult. They are people reading the same exact scriptures we read, and coming to different understandings of those scriptures – the same as most of the people on this site.
For example, Ed thinks the Holy Spirit OF God is God Himself. He thinks the Word OF God is God Himself. Shall we label him as a cult leader, influenced by Satan, and post derogatory and FALSE videos about him, designed to MISLEAD others? Or shall we tell the TRUTH of the matter, and fight him with scriptures about his perceived misunderstandings?
Many people here don't believe Jesus pre-existed his life on earth. Are they Satanists? Are they members of a cult based on Egyptian black arts? NO. They are people who read the same scriptures as us, and come to different conclusions than we did.
But here's the clincher, Wake up: We can easily show Ed and the non-preexisters to be SCRIPTURALLY wrong. Try that with the JWs. Without the Book of Enoch to fall back on, tell me how you could SCRIPTURALLY prove that Jesus is not the same person as Michael the Archangel.
Now, I've offered you a challenge to show one scripture from the NWT that was flawed, biased, or translated in opposition to the rules of Greek or Hebrew grammar.
I will now extend my offer to the JWs interpretations of scripture. Show me one of their doctrines that is so against scripture that they must be a cult to believe it.
Hi Mike.JESUS IS ALSO AN ANGEL?
AND I WORSHIP MARY? WHERE DID YOU GET THAT FROM?
I rest my case.wakeup
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,12:12) his translation of john 1:1 is ; and the word was A GOD. i totally was amazed about their wording,it totally gives another meaning to what God is saying,
Wakeup,“A god” IS the correct translation of John 1:1c. And you can read our discussion about it in the thread called “Blatant Corruption in the NWT”.
That is also the place for you to list ONE scripture in which you think the NWT wording is faulty.
Who knows? Maybe they do have a couple of messed up translations. But so far, not one person on this site has been able to show me one – despite the fact that those same people are eager to jump on the “NWT is Faulty” bandwagon. Perhaps you will be the first one here to not only claim fault in the NWT, but to also SHOW that fault?
Go to the thread, read about John 1:1, and feel free to post any single verse you think the NWT has wrong. I will happily discuss all verses with you there………….one at a time.
I'll even be willing to go over John 1:1 again, showing you that even many Trinitarian scholars agree that “a god” is one of the THREE grammatically possible translations of 1:1c.
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