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Quote (gollamudi @ May 12 2010,13:08) Hi brother Nick,
I hope we are not findind salvation here in this forum. We are only debating on the Christian scriptures of their reliability. Whether a Jew or Gentile it matters when we debate on the scriptures for their validity.Peace to you
Adam
Gollamundi,The so called Jews do not even believe that the their own holy book is valid.
If they did then they would know Jesus is the one God promised to them.
Their refussal to believe is evidence that they do not believe God promise but instead look for a false promise that is made by man.
The promise of righteousness that user in the age of righteousness is here and those who believe God will inherit it. Those who rejects God's words wil not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2010,18:58) Quote (gollamudi @ May 12 2010,13:08) Hi brother Nick,
I hope we are not finding salvation here in this forum. We are only debating on the Christian scriptures of their reliability. Whether a Jew or Gentile it matters when we debate on the scriptures for their validity.Peace to you
Adam
Gollamundi,The so called Jews do not even believe that the their own holy book is valid.
If they did then they would know Jesus is the one God promised to them.
Their refussal to believe is evidence that they do not believe God promise but instead look for a false promise that is made by man.
The promise of righteousness that user in the age of righteousness is here and those who believe God will inherit it. Those who rejects God's words wil not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
So brother Kerwin,
You finally accepted Jesus is one God?
Judaism doesn't make any human as God that is blashphemy.gollamudi,
Please explain your leap of logic as stating that the so called Jews do not believe God's words is not stating that Jesus is God.
Those who believe Jesus is God are one with those false Jews in that they also do not believe Jesus is the Promised One as the individual they describe is not Jesus even if his name is the same.
God is not tolerant of those who deviate from his truth which is why he condemned those who either added to or subtracted from the Law he gave to the Hebrew people through Mosses and the angels.
The so called Jews deviate in some ways while those who falsely claim Jesus is God deviate in others. That is on their heads. You and I must be careful not to copy such examples.
Adam…….Something to consider that the people ruled by Jesus and the Saints (are not converted people) AND ARE STILL CARNAL MINDED and that is why they keep the animal sacrifices again and all the feast days. Jesus and the Saints will indeed rule over the world and the evil will be removed for a thousand years from the earth , but their rule will be over carnal minded people, both the House of Judah and the House of Israel, and they again will become ONE NATION is those days. All the world will be taught the way of GOD and under the authority of Jesus and the Saints, for a thousand years. They all will be willing in those days both Israelites and Gentiles also, but look what happens in the end of the Messianic reign , they all turn against the Jesus and The Saints, and fire comes down and destroys them all. The point is proved< no matter how much EVIL is removed and the laws of the Torah is taught in all the earth, still in the end they (ALL) Fail, except Jesus and the Saints. That will be a big lesson for everyone to come to see. Our performance will never cause the Heart and mind to be right by obedience to the law and sacrifices required by it. But a New Heart given by GOD dwelling (IN) a person is what will count in the end. IMO
But we who are called NOW are called to Assist the Messiah (Jesus )to reign over them for a thousand years. The temple will be rebuilt and Sacrifices will again be performed and the Levitcal Priest Hood will be restored but all this is a temporary condition lasting for a thousand years only. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Adam…………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2010,21:58) gollamudi, Please explain your leap of logic as stating that the so called Jews do not believe God's words is not stating that Jesus is God.
Those who believe Jesus is God are one with those false Jews in that they also do not believe Jesus is the Promised One as the individual they describe is not Jesus even if his name is the same.
God is not tolerant of those who deviate from his truth which is why he condemned those who either added to or subtracted from the Law he gave to the Hebrew people through Mosses and the angels.
The so called Jews deviate in some ways while those who falsely claim Jesus is God deviate in others. That is on their heads. You and I must be careful not to copy such examples.
I'm sorry your earlier post meant that way. You check for yourself. I know you are an unitarian and you will not accept that Jesus is God.Peace to you
AdamQuote (Gene Balthrop @ May 13 2010,03:07) Adam…….Something to consider that the people ruled by Jesus and the Saints (are not converted people) AND ARE STILL CARNAL MINDED and that is why they keep the animal sacrifices again and all the feast days. Jesus and the Saints will indeed rule over the world and the evil will be removed for a thousand years from the earth , but their rule will be over carnal minded people, both the House of Judah and the House of Israel, and they again will become ONE NATION is those days. All the world will be taught the way of GOD and under the authority of Jesus and the Saints, for a thousand years. They all will be willing in those days both Israelites and Gentiles also, but look what happens in the end of the Messianic reign , they all turn against the Jesus and The Saints, and fire comes down and destroys them all. The point is proved< no matter how much EVIL is removed and the laws of the Torah is taught in all the earth, still in the end they (ALL) Fail, except Jesus and the Saints. That will be a big lesson for everyone to come to see. Our performance will never cause the Heart and mind to be right by obedience to the law and sacrifices required by it. But a New Heart given by GOD dwelling (IN) a person is what will count in the end. IMO But we who are called NOW are called to Assist the Messiah (Jesus )to reign over them for a thousand years. The temple will be rebuilt and Sacrifices will again be performed and the Levitcal Priest Hood will be restored but all this is a temporary condition lasting for a thousand years only. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Adam…………………..gene
Hi brother Gene,
Thanks for your post above. You are right as per Christian interpretation of Messianic Kingdom is concerned but as per Judaism they never agree with the logic of thousand years but the kingdom of Messiah will be an everlasting Kingdom by restoring the animal sacrifices in the third Temple in Jerusalem. This proves that Jesus' death on the cross as nothing to do with atonement of human sins. Hope you will see the truth in these words. Please read Ezekiel 40-48 as well as the following Prophecies of animal sacrifices in the future Temple:Isaiah 56:6,7
Isaiah 60:7
Jeremiah 33:18
Zechariah 14:16-21
Peace and love
Adamgollamudi,
Did you miss the contradiction is what you state Jewish thought is?
According to Jewish theology the Anointed One will issue in the age of righteousness in which no one sins.
If no one sins then there is no need for sacrifices to atone for ones sins.
Can you resolve this contradiction?
Adam……….Kerwin has brought up a good point. The only reason for Sacrifices and offerings to be offered up is to appease GOD for their sins and offenses. The Millennium reign of Jesus and the Saints is over carnal subject who have not the Spirit if GOD (IN) them and are still carnal and are given the same carnal commandments needed to control their desires as before, (BUT) They are more willing to obey because they do not have (EVIL) influencing them at this time and will keep all of Gods Laws and commandments including all the Holy days also. BUT when Evil is released back on the earth they all fail and turn away from GOD , Jesus and the Saints and begin to attack them and seek to kill them as they did before. Which proves a (BIG, BIG) Point that without GOD taking up residence (IN) you, you can not maintain permanent righteousness. This lesson must be learned by ALL, only GOD is truly righteous and must exist (IN) Us for us to IMAGE HIM as He was (IN) Jesus also. IMO
Adam do not get caught up in Jewish fairy tale's brother. The Millennial reign of Jesus and the Saint is (NOT) the Ultimate Utopian rule that many think. That does not happen till GOD the FATHER takes over rule of ALL CREATION, When Jesus turns over HIS Kingdom over to the FATHER. IMO
peace and love to you and yours ADAM……………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 18 2010,21:24) Hi GM,
The temple curtain is torn.
Follow Jesus.
Hi borther Nick,
That is purely the interpretation of the N.T writers but the sacrifices continued even after Jesus' crucifixion and they will be restored during the Third Temple period.Peace to you
AdamHi GM,
Certainly the synagogue of satan continued on but was God still offering forgiveness to them?
Grace and peace came through Christ Jesus.Quote (kerwin @ May 18 2010,21:27) gollamudi, Did you miss the contradiction is what you state Jewish thought is?
According to Jewish theology the Anointed One will issue in the age of righteousness in which no one sins.
If no one sins then there is no need for sacrifices to atone for ones sins.
Can you resolve this contradiction?
Hi brother Kerwin,
That is purely Christian interpretation to say that there will not be any sin in future kingdom of Messiah but not Jewish. Infact this temple has not been built yet and it will not be built by Christians. It will be built by Jews. The Jews will build a temple in Israel and begin animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins because they do not accept Jesus. My evidence for this is that the Jews have been planning to build this temple for some time now. They have all of the sacrificial garb and utensils. All they need is to build the temple which will happen in the near future. Please read this from Ezekiel 43:
18 And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord GOD: 'These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it. 19 You shall give a young bull for a sin offering to the priests, the Levites, who are of the seed of Zadok, who approach Me to minister to Me,' says the Lord GOD. 20 You shall take some of its blood and put it on the four horns of the altar.So what do you say on this?
Gollamundi,
Different sects of so called Jews have different beliefs and I cannot speak for them all but there is definately those who believe that the Messianic Age is a time when only the righteous will roam the earth and there will be no sin.
They use Zephaniah 3:13 to support that tenet. It explicly states that the remnant of Isreal will do no sin.
I have quoted this source previously. Please read it. Thank you.
I am not sure Ezekiel is speaking of the Messianic Age as it is possible the secound temple was built to his specifications.
Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2010,16:32) Gollamundi, Different sects of so called Jews have different beliefs and I cannot speak for them all but there is definately those who believe that the Messianic Age is a time when only the righteous will roam the earth and there will be no sin.
They use Zephaniah 3:13 to support that tenet. It explicly states that the remnant of Isreal will do no sin.
I have quoted this source previously. Please read it. Thank you.
I am not sure Ezekiel is speaking of the Messianic Age as it is possible the secound temple was built to his specifications.
The source you quoted is of hardcore Judaism and they don't accept any of your views on Jesus being Jewish Messiah or accepting his death as an atonement for sins.Gollamundi,
I know the source is a Jewish source since I was using it to prove what some Jewish believe about the Messianic age. As I pointed out people will not sin so will not require sacrifices for their sins whether intentional or non-intentional.
That is also why I have great doubts that Ezekiel is speaking of a third temple instead of the secound temple.
The new testiment teaches us that individuals who live by the spirit of holiness do not sin and thus those individuals fulfill the requirement of those individuals some Jews teach will live during the Messianic Age.
It is through obeying all that Jesus teaches that one receives and lives by the spirit of righteousness.
In short Jesus fulfills the promise of the Messianic age.
So you mean to say that there is no sin in this alleged Messianic age of Christianity? & Do you mean to say that no Christian will commit sin any more?
Quote (gollamudi @ May 20 2010,15:45) So you mean to say that there is no sin in this alleged Messianic age of Christianity? & Do you mean to say that no Christian will commit sin any more?
No one will commit a sin during the Messianic age because all will be fully mature and so walk according to the ways of the Spirit at all times.That is the goal of true Christians and has been the goal since the Holy Spirit came on Pentecost many years ago.
Galatians 5:16(NIV) reads:
Quote So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
In other words you will not sin.
If you sin then you are living by the sinful nature and so cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, Galatians 5:19-21.
So confess your sins and God who is faithful and just will cleanse you of the desire to sin though you will still be tempted. That is if you have received the Holy Spirit and can live by it. Thogh he may even do it to some extent before your receive the spirit of Holiness.
Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2010,21:06) Quote (gollamudi @ May 20 2010,15:45) So you mean to say that there is no sin in this alleged Messianic age of Christianity? & Do you mean to say that no Christian will commit sin any more?
No one will commit a sin during the Messianic age because all will be fully mature and so walk according to the ways of the Spirit at all times.That is the goal of true Christians and has been the goal since the Holy Spirit came on Pentecost many years ago.
Galatians 5:16(NIV) reads:
Quote So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
In other words you will not sin.
If you sin then you are living by the sinful nature and so cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, Galatians 5:19-21.
So confess your sins and God who is faithful and just will cleanse you of the desire to sin though you will still be tempted. That is if you have received the Holy Spirit and can live by it. Thogh he may even do it to some extent before your receive the spirit of Holiness.
So as per your statement the Christian Messianic age not started so far?1 John 1:9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
Here your another statement is disproven because the above verses infer Christian can commit sin.
Gollamundi,
John 1:9 is a poor translation of the common Greek language as the word translated sin in it is not the same word translated sin in 1 John 2:1 when John is definitely speaking about the sin act and using the word if indicating some do and some do not sin.
I do not see John contradicting himself after just a few verses.
Offhand I am of the opinion that John 1:9 is speaking of the nature of sin that Paul refers to as the “flesh” or “old man”. I have not confirmed this though it would be consistent with other scriptures.
I did not intend to state Christians cannot commit sins. My attention was to state that a fully mature Christian would not even though they are tempted just like everyone else. An immature Christ most likely will sin as they have not learned how to fully live according to the spirit.
The Messianic Age has not started and may not start until after the Secound Resurection. I am unclear on the End of Days so I may be incorrect but since the Thousand year is said to end with a battle between the forces of evil and those of God I can not see how the Messianic Age will start before that. I am not certain about anything as I am rather ignorant about the End of Days.
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