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Quote (thethinker @ July 20 2009,20:55) Gene said: Quote thinker…… “unless the LORD shall build the house the weary builders build in vain”. ” Hear o Israel the LORD our GOD is (ONE) LORD”. Yes Gene. Except the Lord build the house. Jesus is the lord and Hebrews 3 says that He built the house. Do you not trust the author to the Hebrews. It clearly says that Jesus is “counted worthy” of the glory of the builder.
Quote Don't rob Glory that belongs to the FATHER, Jesus our lord never did, saying “I have glorified (YOU) upon the Earth.” Thinker dump the TRINITARIAN Garbage brother and scriptures will fall into place. IMO If anyone is robbing the Father it is the author to the Hebrews and it is Jesus. Hebrews says that Jesus is “counted worthy” of the glory of the builder. Jesus said, “I will build MY church.”
thinker
Hi JackAlso “robbing the Father” are those who do not believe in the “Equality” of the Fathers Son!
WJ
Hi WJ,
How can you obey this if you reject the Lordship of Jesus, the vine and the head of the church,
preferring him to be your god?WJ……….Jesus said the Father was greater then He, to deny this is to deny what Jesus said. Jesus said He could do nothing of Himself , do you believe this . Jesus plainly said the ROCK that revealed to Peter the truth was the Rock that was in Heaven , the FATHERm and that was the Rock He would build the church by, not himself as you asert. He plainely said He could (NOT) do (anything) himself or on His own authority , what He was doing was by the power and authority if HIs GOD and OUR GOD, not of himself as he plainly said. “the Father in me (HE) doth the works”, interesting notice he did not say (HE HIMSELF) did the works. WJ brother come out of the false teaching of the TRINITY, and you will see clear that Jesus is one of Us and not a GOD no more then we are. WE are heirs and joint heirs with him . IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ July 21 2009,14:07) WJ……….Jesus said the Father was greater then He, to deny this is to deny what Jesus said. Jesus said He could do nothing of Himself , do you believe this . Jesus plainly said the ROCK that revealed to Peter the truth was the Rock that was in Heaven , the FATHERm and that was the Rock He would build the church by, not himself as you asert. He plainely said He could (NOT) do (anything) himself or on His own authority , what He was doing was by the power and authority if HIs GOD and OUR GOD, not of himself as he plainly said. “the Father in me (HE) doth the works”, interesting notice he did not say (HE HIMSELF) did the works. WJ brother come out of the false teaching of the TRINITY, and you will see clear that Jesus is one of Us and not a GOD no more then we are. WE are heirs and joint heirs with him . IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Gene,
We have been over this a million times. Please try to come up with a better argument. The Father was greater than Jesus while He was on the earth as a servant. While in the flesh He was limited. But He is no longer bound by the flesh. He has been exalted since then. He has ALL power and authority now. You can't win the argument bro!thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 21 2009,10:59) Paladin said: Quote God built all things, but Jesus built a house. Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?
Try a remedial course in TRUTH.
The “house” that Christ builds is the people of God the Church. Therefore, God built everything but the church. So God does NOT build all things. Unless the author meant to imply that Jesus is God.
Acquaint yourself with the law of non-contradiction.
thinker
There is nothing done on earth without God involved. Even when men choose to do evil, God gives them breath while they are doing it. And when they repent, he is still watching over them and keeping them. And when they fall away again, God still sustains them with life.God builds all things, but he builds some things through the hands of clay.
Jesus built his church, the house of God, but it was by God's blueprint, his logos. So God was the architect, the designer, the ultimate builder. Jesus was the master carpenter.
What is so hard to understand about that?
Acquaint yourself with the law of probability.
Quote (thethinker @ July 21 2009,11:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 21 2009,11:08) Hi TT,
Jesus is the Head of the church and Lord of all ……..under God.
Lord of all under God is a contradiction. There is only one Lord.thinker
When the Lord God anoints a man, and appoints him to be Lord, both are Lord, but to us there is one Lord, that one whom God appointed over us.And every king is a Lord anointed and appointed over men.
You really need to understand that there are Lords of different grade level, and different status.
A Land Lord over property [LandLord];
A Political Lord over a town; [Lord Mayor]
A King over a nation; [My Lord the king]
A Lord appointed by God; [Our Lord Jesus Christ]
God over all; [The Lord God]Quote (thethinker @ July 21 2009,20:16) Quote (Gene @ July 21 2009,14:07) WJ……….Jesus said the Father was greater then He, to deny this is to deny what Jesus said. Jesus said He could do nothing of Himself , do you believe this . Jesus plainly said the ROCK that revealed to Peter the truth was the Rock that was in Heaven , the FATHERm and that was the Rock He would build the church by, not himself as you asert. He plainely said He could (NOT) do (anything) himself or on His own authority , what He was doing was by the power and authority if HIs GOD and OUR GOD, not of himself as he plainly said. “the Father in me (HE) doth the works”, interesting notice he did not say (HE HIMSELF) did the works. WJ brother come out of the false teaching of the TRINITY, and you will see clear that Jesus is one of Us and not a GOD no more then we are. WE are heirs and joint heirs with him . IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Gene,
We have been over this a million times. Please try to come up with a better argument. The Father was greater than Jesus while He was on the earth as a servant. While in the flesh He was limited. But He is no longer bound by the flesh. He has been exalted since then. He has ALL power and authority now. You can't win the argument bro!thinker
Men can be raised. God cannot.Jesus was “raised” from among his brethren, the nation of Israel.
Jesus was raised from the dead.
Jesus was raised above his fellows and “extolled,” and made
“very high.”Jesus was raised to the right hand of the Father on high.
Jesus was not God.
Quote (Paladin @ July 21 2009,23:58) Quote (thethinker @ July 21 2009,10:59) Paladin said: Quote God built all things, but Jesus built a house. Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?
Try a remedial course in TRUTH.
The “house” that Christ builds is the people of God the Church. Therefore, God built everything but the church. So God does NOT build all things. Unless the author meant to imply that Jesus is God.
Acquaint yourself with the law of non-contradiction.
thinker
There is nothing done on earth without God involved. Even when men choose to do evil, God gives them breath while they are doing it. And when they repent, he is still watching over them and keeping them. And when they fall away again, God still sustains them with life.God builds all things, but he builds some things through the hands of clay.
Jesus built his church, the house of God, but it was by God's blueprint, his logos. So God was the architect, the designer, the ultimate builder. Jesus was the master carpenter.
What is so hard to understand about that?
Acquaint yourself with the law of probability.
Paladin.
You say that the building of the church was God's blueprint as if Jesus isn't God. Anyway, please give chapter and verse showing that Christ is not the architect. Jesus said that it is HIS church.Quote I will build MY church .
This was a blasphemous statement for we are supposed to be the people of God alone.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 22 2009,02:45) Quote (Paladin @ July 21 2009,23:58) Quote (thethinker @ July 21 2009,10:59) Paladin said: Quote God built all things, but Jesus built a house. Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?
Try a remedial course in TRUTH.
The “house” that Christ builds is the people of God the Church. Therefore, God built everything but the church. So God does NOT build all things. Unless the author meant to imply that Jesus is God.
Acquaint yourself with the law of non-contradiction.
thinker
There is nothing done on earth without God involved. Even when men choose to do evil, God gives them breath while they are doing it. And when they repent, he is still watching over them and keeping them. And when they fall away again, God still sustains them with life.God builds all things, but he builds some things through the hands of clay.
Jesus built his church, the house of God, but it was by God's blueprint, his logos. So God was the architect, the designer, the ultimate builder. Jesus was the master carpenter.
What is so hard to understand about that?
Acquaint yourself with the law of probability.
Paladin.
You say that the building of the church was God's blueprint as if Jesus isn't God. Anyway, please give chapter and verse showing that Christ is not the architect. Jesus said that it is HIS church.Quote I will build MY church .
This was a blasphemous statement for we are supposed to be the people of God alone.
thinker
And who was “the church in the wilderness?”It was God's people.
God gave his children to Jesus to develope into the sheep of his pasture. They were “bought with a price.” He “inherited the nations” according to prophecy.
Quote You say that the building of the church was God's blueprint as if Jesus isn't God. Anyway, please give chapter and verse showing that Christ is not the architect. Jesus said he NEVER did anything on his own, but only what the Father told him to do.
And it was Jesus that makes a difference between himself and God. “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, WHETHER it be of GOD, OR whether I speak of MYSELF. [John 7:17]
Paladin said:
Quote God gave his children to Jesus to develope into the sheep of his pasture. They were “bought with a price.” He “inherited the nations” according to prophecy. Exactly! If He inherited the nations then they are HIS.
You belong to Christ!!
Paladin said:
Quote And it was Jesus that makes a difference between himself and God. “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, WHETHER it be of GOD, OR whether I speak of MYSELF. You're not telling the whole story. After Jesus was exalted all that was the Father's became His as well. This included doctrine specifically.
Quote He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (John 16:14-15) You cannot win the argument by appealing to statements Jesus made of Himself while He was a servant. He is exalted now and as exalted all truth is His own. He said so. He said, “All that the Father has IS MINE.” He was speaking about truth specifically when He said this.
You must show that in His exalted state He is less than the Father. This you cannot do for He said that He has ALL authority. It means exactly that!
thinker
Thinker…… to say Jesus did not make a distinction between GOD and Himself is pure nonsense and denial of scriptures. Who do you think Jesus was praying to Himself? There are many scripture that show that distention . “For (THOU) art the (ONLY) True GOD”. “For the LORD our GOD is (ONE) LORD”, and again the LORD GOD said “You shall have (NO) other GOD besides ME”, I could go on and on but if you don't believe these ( Simple) things how will you ever believe the rest brother. Wake Up Thinker.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene
Quote (thethinker @ July 22 2009,03:20)
So what? Take it in historical perspective, not just a bunch of disjointed sound bites.Quote After Jesus was exalted all that was the Father's became His as well. This included doctrine specifically. What YOU fail to realize is, if someone gives you everything, that does make you that someone who gave you all things.
Nor does it make you equal to the source of what is given you.Quote You must show that in His exalted state He is less than the Father. This you cannot do for He said that He has ALL authority. It means exactly that! He will turn it all back to the Father when the last enemy is destroyed. Then he himself will “Be subjected” to the Father.
He would subject himself ONLY if it is in the active form, but it is passive, which means it is something done to him; and when the Father subjects [active] it all to himself, he [the father] will be all in all.
Equals are not passively subjected, though they may subject themselves, actively. This is not what is shown in I Cor 15.
THIS is just one of many references that demonstrates forever, that the Son is NOT equal to the Father.
Quote (Gene @ July 22 2009,03:54) Thinker…… to say Jesus did not make a distinction between GOD and Himself is pure nonsense and denial of scriptures. Who do you think Jesus was praying to Himself? There are many scripture that show that distention . “For (THOU) art the (ONLY) True GOD”. “For the LORD our GOD is (ONE) LORD”, and again the LORD GOD said “You shall have (NO) other GOD besides ME”, I could go on and on but if you don't believe these ( Simple) things how will you ever believe the rest brother. Wake Up Thinker. peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene
Gene,
I did NOT deny that Jesus made a distinction while He was a servant. You're hearing what you want to hear. Read again.thinker
Hi TT,
Who was Jesus a servant to?
God perhaps?But you say he is a part of God.
Does one PART serve another PART?Paladin said:
Quote What YOU fail to realize is, if someone gives you everything, that does make you that someone who gave you all things. What you fail to realize is that if someone gives you something IT IS YOURS. You belong to Christ and He may do with you as He wills. I never said that the Son is the Father. I said that in His exalted position he is EQUAL to the Father. Jesus said that He has ALL authority now. Therefore, He is EQUAL with His Father or He does not really have ALL authority.
You really need to take a course in basic logic! Please!
Paladin said:
Quote He will turn it all back to the Father when the last enemy is destroyed. Then he himself will “Be subjected” to the Father. Well, if He inherited all things then His turning it back over to the Father will be voluntary. Would you have us to believe that the Father will take it back by force? Are you saying that the Father breaks contracts?
Until the Son voluntarily hands all back to the Father you are His and His alone! The Son owns you by inheritance. You are His!
ALL AUTHORITY MEANS ALL AUTHORITY!
Christ is “counted worthy” of the glory of the builder!
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2009,10:25) Hi TT,
Who was Jesus a servant to?
God perhaps?But you say he is a part of God.
Does one PART serve another PART?
Jesus has ALL authority now. What part of the expression “ALL AUTHORITY” do you not understand?thinker
Hi TT,
Of course he never had authority over God Himself, his Father.
But you think they are equal parts anyway don't you?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2009,10:36) Hi TT,
Of course he never had authority over God Himself, his Father.
But you think they are equal parts anyway don't you?
Is Christ's authority over you any less than God's?thinker
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