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Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 24 2012,10:37) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 22 2012,09:28) Indeed Jesus was a 100% human being……….
So your Jesus won the lottery then, Gene? He didn't really SACRIFICE anything at all, but instead was the LUCKY one that God picked out of the millions of human beings and said, “I'm going to make you go through one bad day where you die – as all men die – and in exchange for that one bad day, you will live for eternity at My right hand, ruling over the entire heavens and earth for me!”Is THAT what you think happened, Gene? It seems your Jesus didn't sacrifice a single thing, but instead hit the jackpot of all jackpots. Boy, I sure wish God would call on me to make that kind of “sacrifice”.
Gene? Martian? Nick? Ed? Kerwin? Marty?
Don't any of you have anything to say about this post? This seems to be what all of you believe, right?
Do the blue words I bolded sound accurate to your beliefs about Jesus? If not, please explain to me how your Jesus differs from what I bolded.
Hi Mike,Jesus was the progeny of:
HolySpirit: “Son of God” (Matt 1:20, Luke 1:35)
Mary: …… “Son of Man” (Matt 1:18, Acts 1:14)At Jesus baptism, Jesus was endued with power from on high. (John 3:34-35)
Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the HolySpirit and with power:
who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.John 3:34-35 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth
not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ April 24 2012,10:40) Quote (Ed J @ April 24 2012,12:40) Hi Pierre, How many forums were you kicked off of?
God bless
Ed J
ONEI could have staid if I would have accepted their views on the scriptures ,but I rather please God then men
Hi Pierre,That's usually always the reason, as it was for me too.
I was kicked off two and prevented from joining one,
and a current a member of about 14 forums. But
this one is my favorite; most I hardly post on.
How many forums are you a member of?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ April 24 2012,10:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2012,13:24) Hi,
Doctrine does not produce fruit.
Only obedience to the command to be reborn can produce the fruit of the Spirit.[gal5]
Nyou can not obey to what you do not know right
?
2 Peter 3:3-7 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue
as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that
by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water
and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store,
reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.Quote (terraricca @ April 24 2012,10:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 24 2012,17:37) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 22 2012,09:28) Indeed Jesus was a 100% human being……….
So your Jesus won the lottery then, Gene? He didn't really SACRIFICE anything at all, but instead was the LUCKY one that God picked out of the millions of human beings and said, “I'm going to make you go through one bad day where you die – as all men die – and in exchange for that one bad day, you will live for eternity at My right hand, ruling over the entire heavens and earth for me!”Is THAT what you think happened, Gene? It seems your Jesus didn't sacrifice a single thing, but instead hit the jackpot of all jackpots. Boy, I sure wish God would call on me to make that kind of “sacrifice”.
Gene? Martian? Nick? Ed? Kerwin? Marty?
Don't any of you have anything to say about this post? This seems to be what all of you believe, right?
Do the blue words I bolded sound accurate to your beliefs about Jesus? If not, please explain to me how your Jesus differs from what I bolded.
Mikethey have all gone on vacation ,they only be back wen they won't see this quote
Hi Pierre,I answer the gist of his questions,
not the perspective of his wording.
He continually tries to draw me into
answering based on “his perception”.Good day,
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ April 24 2012,22:24) Quote (terraricca @ April 24 2012,10:40) Quote (Ed J @ April 24 2012,12:40) Hi Pierre, How many forums were you kicked off of?
God bless
Ed J
ONEI could have staid if I would have accepted their views on the scriptures ,but I rather please God then men
Hi Pierre,That's usually always the reason, as it was for me too.
I was kicked off two and prevented from joining one,
and a current a member of about 14 forums. But
this one is my favorite; most I hardly post on.
How many forums are you a member of?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjONE, this one
Quote (Ed J @ April 24 2012,22:29) Quote (terraricca @ April 24 2012,10:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2012,13:24) Hi,
Doctrine does not produce fruit.
Only obedience to the command to be reborn can produce the fruit of the Spirit.[gal5]
Nyou can not obey to what you do not know right
?
2 Peter 3:3-7 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue
as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that
by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water
and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store,
reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
edjif you understand what NICK says and what Peter says in your quote ,and then look at what I have said to Nick,
do you think we are talking about the same thing
Quote (terraricca @ April 24 2012,15:40) Quote (Ed J @ April 24 2012,22:29) Quote (terraricca @ April 24 2012,10:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2012,13:24) Hi,
Doctrine does not produce fruit.
Only obedience to the command to be reborn can produce the fruit of the Spirit.[gal5]
Nyou can not obey to what you do not know right
?
2 Peter 3:3-7 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue
as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that
by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water
and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store,
reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
edjif you understand what NICK says and what Peter says in your quote ,and then look at what I have said to Nick,
do you think we are talking about the same thing
PIERRE,“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:” (Hosea 4:6)
No I am not on vacation. However, since mike made this comment, “As for me, I will believe the scriptures whether or not I think they make it more possible for me to be like Jesus.” I see no point on further conversation with him. What he was really saying is ““As for me, I will believe the [my interpretation of] scriptures whether or not I think they make it more possible for me to be like Jesus.” The very point of seeing our interpretation in light of God's plan is the point and the check to see of our interpretation is correct. His gospel and mine are so far apart I might as well be talking to a Muslim. To degrade the importance of becoming like Christ is so far outside of the gospel I find it hard to comprehend that anyone would utter such words and yet claim to be a Christian. Why bother proclaiming yourself a Christian if you deny the very act of following (becoming like) Christ?
Quote (shem4name @ April 25 2012,12:13) No I am not on vacation. However, since mike made this comment, “As for me, I will believe the scriptures whether or not I think they make it more possible for me to be like Jesus.” I see no point on further conversation with him. What he was really saying is ““As for me, I will believe the [my interpretation of] scriptures whether or not I think they make it more possible for me to be like Jesus.” The very point of seeing our interpretation in light of God's plan is the point and the check to see of our interpretation is correct. His gospel and mine are so far apart I might as well be talking to a Muslim. To degrade the importance of becoming like Christ is so far outside of the gospel I find it hard to comprehend that anyone would utter such words and yet claim to be a Christian. Why bother proclaiming yourself a Christian if you deny the very act of following (becoming like) Christ?
MARTIANSIF YOU FEEL THAT WHAT YOU THINK AND DO IS RIGHT YOU ARE SO TOTALLY SATISFIED,
if all of this will be accepted by God that your problem right ???yes
many ,here have made their mind up of what in scriptures is of interest to them ,but this is not what scriptures is all about ,
if you pull God words to you ,then you lowering God spirit to yours ,but if you are reading your mind and heart to God so that he can elevate you and clean you to be worthy to him in some way ,then you have gain life.
and taking one ore two verses out of scriptures to support your view while many other verses are not supporting that view ,this should be enough to anyone ,to understand that truth as to be complete in all of God's written word.
if not it is false or miss used
Quote (terraricca @ April 25 2012,05:31) Quote (shem4name @ April 25 2012,12:13) No I am not on vacation. However, since mike made this comment, “As for me, I will believe the scriptures whether or not I think they make it more possible for me to be like Jesus.” I see no point on further conversation with him. What he was really saying is ““As for me, I will believe the [my interpretation of] scriptures whether or not I think they make it more possible for me to be like Jesus.” The very point of seeing our interpretation in light of God's plan is the point and the check to see of our interpretation is correct. His gospel and mine are so far apart I might as well be talking to a Muslim. To degrade the importance of becoming like Christ is so far outside of the gospel I find it hard to comprehend that anyone would utter such words and yet claim to be a Christian. Why bother proclaiming yourself a Christian if you deny the very act of following (becoming like) Christ?
MARTIANSIF YOU FEEL THAT WHAT YOU THINK AND DO IS RIGHT YOU ARE SO TOTALLY SATISFIED,
if all of this will be accepted by God that your problem right ???yes
many ,here have made their mind up of what in scriptures is of interest to them ,but this is not what scriptures is all about ,
if you pull God words to you ,then you lowering God spirit to yours ,but if you are reading your mind and heart to God so that he can elevate you and clean you to be worthy to him in some way ,then you have gain life.
and taking one ore two verses out of scriptures to support your view while many other verses are not supporting that view ,this should be enough to anyone ,to understand that truth as to be complete in all of God's written word.
if not it is false or miss used
I am sorry that you do not get it. However, I am not going to pick up the arm of flesh and operate in the worlds system to debate you as is prevalent on this forum.
I wish you well and will pray for you.shem, perhaps the fruit is in the fact that either God sent his literal first-born of all creation to pay for us or he created a man on the spot 2000 years ago and used him as the vessel in which we can be saved.
In this, it shows that God paid a much higher price in the first example than the second because the literal first to be with God would be someone who meant a great deal to him. It would have been the ultimate sacrifice in that sense. Whereas, whipping up a messiah to save us, seems less so to me.
And price is also a measure of God's love and love is the greatest.
Now it is not me that says it, but scripture, that God paid a big price for us.
t8, it is a matter of opinion as to what would be more of a sacrifice an eternal son becoming a man (A very sketchy possibility) Or The man Christ begotten in Mary's womb.
The first produces a lot of mysteries and unanswered questions.
What happened to the memories and experiences from this prior life? Did Christ have them in his Earthly life and if so that would eliminate him as an example because he would not be like us or make decisions based on the same criteria.God is a functional being. Why would he cloud the issue with ambiguity or leave such huge loop holes for the devil or our imagination to speculate about?
shem, I think that saying one produces bad fruit can be argued with the same verbosity either way.
e.g., God paid less than the ultimate price. If Jesus failed, God could raise another messiah and so on until the job is done. Messiahs are a dime a dozen. So it is just like throwing money at a problem until it is solved. You could call that a low price if you view it that way.
But if God sent the one by whom he created all things through, then it shows that he not only paid the ultimate price, but also that we can all be saved because if all came through him into existence, then all can also be saved through him. This messiah is certainly different to the one whipped up to solve a problem.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2012,15:40) Hi,
Two became one.
The Word was made flesh.
Nanother brick in the window now all broken glass
Romans 15:4 For whatever was thus written in former days was written for our instruction, that by [our steadfast and patient] endurance and the encouragement [drawn] from the Scriptures we might hold fast to and cherish hope.
How does the doctrine in question instruct or foster encouragement and hope?
2 Timothy 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.How does the doctrine correct, reproof or train me in righteousness? With what does it equip me?
1 Cor 14:26What then, brethren, is [the right course]? When you meet together, each one has a hymn, a teaching, a disclosure of special knowledge or information, an utterance in a [strange] tongue, or an interpretation of it. [But] let everything be constructive and edifying and for the good of all.
What is constructive about the doctrine? How is it edifying? How does it build me up?
To me the most precious of all fruits is HOPE. Without hope what would we look forward to in this life? We look at Christ and see him overcome temptation as our example. Does our doctrine show us an example in which we can take hope to overcome temptation? The greatest hope of all is the resurrection to eternal life. Does our doctrine produce hope (by way of example) that we can be resurrected in like manner?
The entire purpose of God is wrapped up in the plan to make all men like Christ. The awesome power of the cross is just the beginning. From that mighty work of grace we are legally in the plan of God and can boldly approach Him to change us into the very image of His son. Even as Christ represented the character and heart of His Father, so should we represent Christ. Christ is our example.The premiss of this OP was not the preexistence. It was the fruit of doctrine. If you want to believe that Christ preexisted that's fine with me. As long as you agree that the man that was born and walked on this Earth did so without any advantage in power, knowledge or source of God then we have. If you do not believe this then to what ever measure you change Christ from us, to that same measure do you deny him as our example.
Quote (Ed J @ April 23 2012,22:15) Hi Mike, Jesus was the progeny of……………………
Ed,None of your post answers my simple question. Do you think Jesus was just an ordinary human being like the rest of us, for whom God traded eternal life at His right hand for one bad day on a stake?
Or do you think there was something more to Jesus and God's relationship than God just picking one of millions of human beings?
Quote (shem4name @ April 24 2012,17:36) The premiss of this OP was not the preexistence. It was the fruit of doctrine. If you want to believe that Christ preexisted that's fine with me. As long as you agree that the man that was born and walked on this Earth did so without any advantage in power, knowledge or source of God then we have. If you do not believe this then to what ever measure you change Christ from us, to that same measure do you deny him as our example.
Martian,I already showed you scripture where God was also our example. He is holy, and so we are to be holy like Him. He judges fairly, with balanced scales, so are we to do the same. He gives His children good things, so are we to do the same. Etc, etc, etc.
But YOUR reasoning says that God can't possibly be an example to us, because He has unfair advantage over us.
Like I said in my first post on this thread, you've chosen a doctrine for yourself that is self-serving in purpose. You will believe whatever equalizes you and Jesus in the hope that bringing him lower will make your job of being like him EASIER for you. And you do this in contradiction to MANY, MANY clear scriptures.
But I acknowledge that this was not meant to be a pre-existent thread, and will try not to interrupt your thread any longer.
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