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As I recall, you were banned from the site at your own request. I don't know how t8's system allowed you to log back on under another user name, but as long as you continue to behave in an appropriate manner, I have no problem at all with you being here.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,02:01) Gene, It is only your own personal wishes that say Jesus must have been exactly like the rest of us. The fact that he was begotten directly by God and had no human father should tell you right away that he was NOT exactly like the rest of us.
In your scenario, God picked a normal human being who was going to die anyway and made a sort of deal with him. God gave him Spirit and power to perform many signs and heal many people and the guarantee of everlasting life at His right hand, just for going through one day of suffering on a stake.
Gene, would you not trade one day of pain and suffering for an eternal life at the right hand of God? Would not any of us JUMP at that opportunity?
So where was the sacrifice Jesus made? After all, ALL men die eventually. And MANY of them are killed in more torturous and brutal ways than the way Jesus was killed. So what did your Jesus really sacrifice for us?
It is evident that you don't understand Phil 2. The mind of Christ we're suppose to have has to do with the fact that Jesus NEVER had to die in the first place. He was already immortal and living in glory alongside his God. THAT was the sacrifice, Gene, that he willingly emptied himself of the cushy life position he was in to be made as a lower species and suffer ridicule, humiliation, pain and death.
Seriously though, tell me what your Jesus actually sacrificed, since all men die. To me it seems as if your Jesus didn't sacrifice anything at all, but instead hit the jackpot of all jackpots………………one bad day in exchange for life eternal at the right hand of God, ruling over everything on heaven and earth.
You say-
It is only your own personal wishes that say Jesus must have been exactly like the rest of us.Reply – Really?
Are these a personal wish?
Jesus is a decendant of David. (Matt Chapter 1 and Mark 10/47)
Jesus has step siblings (Matt 13/55-56)
Jesus is the son of Man (John 8/29) [93 times Jesus is called the “Son of Man”]
Jesus has a soul (Matt 26/38)
Jesus has a human spirit (luke 23/46)
Jesus has a will (John 5/30 and Matt 26/39)
Jesus has a human body (Mark 15/43)
Jesus sleeps (Mark 4/38)
Jesus cries (John 11/35)
Jesus Prays (Luke 6/12, 18/20)
Jesus is the son of God (Luke 9/35)
Jesus is Lord = master in authority (John 13/13)
Jesus is the teacher (John 13/13)
Jesus is the second Adam(I Cor 15/45)
Jesus is a prophet and speaks prophetically from His Father Yahweh. (John 8/40) (a human calling)
Jesus was filled with the Spirit/Godhead/authority (Col 2/9)
Jesus is the Messiah (John 1/41and John 4/25&26)
Jesus is a made just like his brothers. (Hebrews 2/16 and 17)
There is one mediator between God (Yahweh) and Man (humanity) The MAN Christ Jesus. (I Tim 2/5)
Jesus is our brother (Matthew 12:50 , Hebrews 2:11)
Jesus is in submission to God (Yahweh) (I Cor 15/25-28) [ Just like the rest of humanity]
Jesus' source of Life is Yahweh (John 5/26)
Jesus dies. ( Mark 15/37 and 44,45)
Jesus was raised from the dead by God (Yahweh) ( I Cor 6/14)
God (Yahweh) gave Jesus authority over all mankind. (Matt 28/13)You say-
The fact that he was begotten directly by God and had no human father should tell you right away that he was NOT exactly like the rest of us.Reply – Adam had no human father and is called the son of God. Is he also non-human?
No one knows what happened at the conception. All we know is that a conception did take place. Can a human woman conceive anything other then a human child? What would be the point of having an example in Christ that no one could duplicate? He is called the firstfruits and the forerunner. Are there to be more God/men that he can be the firstdruits of cause he certainly cannot be the firstfruits of humanity. He is not human. (according to you)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,03:51) As I recall, you were banned from the site at your own request. I don't know how t8's system allowed you to log back on under another user name, but as long as you continue to behave in an appropriate manner, I have no problem at all with you being here.
And as long as you behave in an appropriate manner I have no problem you being here.Martian,
Your entire posts argues against someone who claims Jesus was never a human being. I have never claimed such a thing.
What did your Jesus sacrifice, Martian?
Quote (shem4name @ April 22 2012,04:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,02:01) Gene, It is only your own personal wishes that say Jesus must have been exactly like the rest of us. The fact that he was begotten directly by God and had no human father should tell you right away that he was NOT exactly like the rest of us.
In your scenario, God picked a normal human being who was going to die anyway and made a sort of deal with him. God gave him Spirit and power to perform many signs and heal many people and the guarantee of everlasting life at His right hand, just for going through one day of suffering on a stake.
Gene, would you not trade one day of pain and suffering for an eternal life at the right hand of God? Would not any of us JUMP at that opportunity?
So where was the sacrifice Jesus made? After all, ALL men die eventually. And MANY of them are killed in more torturous and brutal ways than the way Jesus was killed. So what did your Jesus really sacrifice for us?
It is evident that you don't understand Phil 2. The mind of Christ we're suppose to have has to do with the fact that Jesus NEVER had to die in the first place. He was already immortal and living in glory alongside his God. THAT was the sacrifice, Gene, that he willingly emptied himself of the cushy life position he was in to be made as a lower species and suffer ridicule, humiliation, pain and death.
Seriously though, tell me what your Jesus actually sacrificed, since all men die. To me it seems as if your Jesus didn't sacrifice anything at all, but instead hit the jackpot of all jackpots………………one bad day in exchange for life eternal at the right hand of God, ruling over everything on heaven and earth.
You say-
It is only your own personal wishes that say Jesus must have been exactly like the rest of us.Reply – Really?
Are these a personal wish?
Jesus is a decendant of David. (Matt Chapter 1 and Mark 10/47)
Jesus has step siblings (Matt 13/55-56)
Jesus is the son of Man (John 8/29) [93 times Jesus is called the “Son of Man”]
Jesus has a soul (Matt 26/38)
Jesus has a human spirit (luke 23/46)
Jesus has a will (John 5/30 and Matt 26/39)
Jesus has a human body (Mark 15/43)
Jesus sleeps (Mark 4/38)
Jesus cries (John 11/35)
Jesus Prays (Luke 6/12, 18/20)
Jesus is the son of God (Luke 9/35)
Jesus is Lord = master in authority (John 13/13)
Jesus is the teacher (John 13/13)
Jesus is the second Adam(I Cor 15/45)
Jesus is a prophet and speaks prophetically from His Father Yahweh. (John 8/40) (a human calling)
Jesus was filled with the Spirit/Godhead/authority (Col 2/9)
Jesus is the Messiah (John 1/41and John 4/25&26)
Jesus is a made just like his brothers. (Hebrews 2/16 and 17)
There is one mediator between God (Yahweh) and Man (humanity) The MAN Christ Jesus. (I Tim 2/5)
Jesus is our brother (Matthew 12:50 , Hebrews 2:11)
Jesus is in submission to God (Yahweh) (I Cor 15/25-28) [ Just like the rest of humanity]
Jesus' source of Life is Yahweh (John 5/26)
Jesus dies. ( Mark 15/37 and 44,45)
Jesus was raised from the dead by God (Yahweh) ( I Cor 6/14)
God (Yahweh) gave Jesus authority over all mankind. (Matt 28/13)You say-
The fact that he was begotten directly by God and had no human father should tell you right away that he was NOT exactly like the rest of us.Reply – Adam had no human father and is called the son of God. Is he also non-human?
No one knows what happened at the conception. All we know is that a conception did take place. Can a human woman conceive anything other then a human child? What would be the point of having an example in Christ that no one could duplicate? He is called the firstfruits and the forerunner. Are there to be more God/men that he can be the firstdruits of cause he certainly cannot be the firstfruits of humanity. He is not human. (according to you)
Hi Martin,Jesus is the progeny of the “HolySpirit”. (Matt.1:18, 1:20 / Luke 1:35)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (shem4name @ April 22 2012,11:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,02:01) Gene, It is only your own personal wishes that say Jesus must have been exactly like the rest of us. The fact that he was begotten directly by God and had no human father should tell you right away that he was NOT exactly like the rest of us.
In your scenario, God picked a normal human being who was going to die anyway and made a sort of deal with him. God gave him Spirit and power to perform many signs and heal many people and the guarantee of everlasting life at His right hand, just for going through one day of suffering on a stake.
Gene, would you not trade one day of pain and suffering for an eternal life at the right hand of God? Would not any of us JUMP at that opportunity?
So where was the sacrifice Jesus made? After all, ALL men die eventually. And MANY of them are killed in more torturous and brutal ways than the way Jesus was killed. So what did your Jesus really sacrifice for us?
It is evident that you don't understand Phil 2. The mind of Christ we're suppose to have has to do with the fact that Jesus NEVER had to die in the first place. He was already immortal and living in glory alongside his God. THAT was the sacrifice, Gene, that he willingly emptied himself of the cushy life position he was in to be made as a lower species and suffer ridicule, humiliation, pain and death.
Seriously though, tell me what your Jesus actually sacrificed, since all men die. To me it seems as if your Jesus didn't sacrifice anything at all, but instead hit the jackpot of all jackpots………………one bad day in exchange for life eternal at the right hand of God, ruling over everything on heaven and earth.
You say-
It is only your own personal wishes that say Jesus must have been exactly like the rest of us.Reply – Really?
Are these a personal wish?
Jesus is a decendant of David. (Matt Chapter 1 and Mark 10/47)
Jesus has step siblings (Matt 13/55-56)
Jesus is the son of Man (John 8/29) [93 times Jesus is called the “Son of Man”]
Jesus has a soul (Matt 26/38)
Jesus has a human spirit (luke 23/46)
Jesus has a will (John 5/30 and Matt 26/39)
Jesus has a human body (Mark 15/43)
Jesus sleeps (Mark 4/38)
Jesus cries (John 11/35)
Jesus Prays (Luke 6/12, 18/20)
Jesus is the son of God (Luke 9/35)
Jesus is Lord = master in authority (John 13/13)
Jesus is the teacher (John 13/13)
Jesus is the second Adam(I Cor 15/45)
Jesus is a prophet and speaks prophetically from His Father Yahweh. (John 8/40) (a human calling)
Jesus was filled with the Spirit/Godhead/authority (Col 2/9)
Jesus is the Messiah (John 1/41and John 4/25&26)
Jesus is a made just like his brothers. (Hebrews 2/16 and 17)
There is one mediator between God (Yahweh) and Man (humanity) The MAN Christ Jesus. (I Tim 2/5)
Jesus is our brother (Matthew 12:50 , Hebrews 2:11)
Jesus is in submission to God (Yahweh) (I Cor 15/25-28) [ Just like the rest of humanity]
Jesus' source of Life is Yahweh (John 5/26)
Jesus dies. ( Mark 15/37 and 44,45)
Jesus was raised from the dead by God (Yahweh) ( I Cor 6/14)
God (Yahweh) gave Jesus authority over all mankind. (Matt 28/13)You say-
The fact that he was begotten directly by God and had no human father should tell you right away that he was NOT exactly like the rest of us.Reply – Adam had no human father and is called the son of God. Is he also non-human?
No one knows what happened at the conception. All we know is that a conception did take place. Can a human woman conceive anything other then a human child? What would be the point of having an example in Christ that no one could duplicate? He is called the firstfruits and the forerunner. Are there to be more God/men that he can be the firstdruits of cause he certainly cannot be the firstfruits of humanity. He is not human. (according to you)
Martianyou have only quoted the after facts that you pick out to fulfill your claim ,
but scriptures says that we are not like Adam ,(before he sinned)
but it says Jesus was the second Adam ,tell me how come Jesus could be not like us but like Adam I mean without sin,
if he would be born and be like us he would be a sinner NO???the only lesson in this picture seems to be that ,if Adam did not follow his wife he would still be able to have perfect children,
but scriptures have prophetic views of the coming Messiah ,
you did not quote them,and COL 1;15-18 and many others
so you produce a Swiss cheese
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,04:16) Martian, Your entire posts argues against someone who claims Jesus was never a human being. I have never claimed such a thing.
What did your Jesus sacrifice, Martian?
His life? No greater love hath a man then he lay down his life for his fellow man.Quote (terraricca @ April 22 2012,05:15) Quote (shem4name @ April 22 2012,11:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,02:01) Gene, It is only your own personal wishes that say Jesus must have been exactly like the rest of us. The fact that he was begotten directly by God and had no human father should tell you right away that he was NOT exactly like the rest of us.
In your scenario, God picked a normal human being who was going to die anyway and made a sort of deal with him. God gave him Spirit and power to perform many signs and heal many people and the guarantee of everlasting life at His right hand, just for going through one day of suffering on a stake.
Gene, would you not trade one day of pain and suffering for an eternal life at the right hand of God? Would not any of us JUMP at that opportunity?
So where was the sacrifice Jesus made? After all, ALL men die eventually. And MANY of them are killed in more torturous and brutal ways than the way Jesus was killed. So what did your Jesus really sacrifice for us?
It is evident that you don't understand Phil 2. The mind of Christ we're suppose to have has to do with the fact that Jesus NEVER had to die in the first place. He was already immortal and living in glory alongside his God. THAT was the sacrifice, Gene, that he willingly emptied himself of the cushy life position he was in to be made as a lower species and suffer ridicule, humiliation, pain and death.
Seriously though, tell me what your Jesus actually sacrificed, since all men die. To me it seems as if your Jesus didn't sacrifice anything at all, but instead hit the jackpot of all jackpots………………one bad day in exchange for life eternal at the right hand of God, ruling over everything on heaven and earth.
You say-
It is only your own personal wishes that say Jesus must have been exactly like the rest of us.Reply – Really?
Are these a personal wish?
Jesus is a decendant of David. (Matt Chapter 1 and Mark 10/47)
Jesus has step siblings (Matt 13/55-56)
Jesus is the son of Man (John 8/29) [93 times Jesus is called the “Son of Man”]
Jesus has a soul (Matt 26/38)
Jesus has a human spirit (luke 23/46)
Jesus has a will (John 5/30 and Matt 26/39)
Jesus has a human body (Mark 15/43)
Jesus sleeps (Mark 4/38)
Jesus cries (John 11/35)
Jesus Prays (Luke 6/12, 18/20)
Jesus is the son of God (Luke 9/35)
Jesus is Lord = master in authority (John 13/13)
Jesus is the teacher (John 13/13)
Jesus is the second Adam(I Cor 15/45)
Jesus is a prophet and speaks prophetically from His Father Yahweh. (John 8/40) (a human calling)
Jesus was filled with the Spirit/Godhead/authority (Col 2/9)
Jesus is the Messiah (John 1/41and John 4/25&26)
Jesus is a made just like his brothers. (Hebrews 2/16 and 17)
There is one mediator between God (Yahweh) and Man (humanity) The MAN Christ Jesus. (I Tim 2/5)
Jesus is our brother (Matthew 12:50 , Hebrews 2:11)
Jesus is in submission to God (Yahweh) (I Cor 15/25-28) [ Just like the rest of humanity]
Jesus' source of Life is Yahweh (John 5/26)
Jesus dies. ( Mark 15/37 and 44,45)
Jesus was raised from the dead by God (Yahweh) ( I Cor 6/14)
God (Yahweh) gave Jesus authority over all mankind. (Matt 28/13)You say-
The fact that he was begotten directly by God and had no human father should tell you right away that he was NOT exactly like the rest of us.Reply – Adam had no human father and is called the son of God. Is he also non-human?
No one knows what happened at the conception. All we know is that a conception did take place. Can a human woman conceive anything other then a human child? What would be the point of having an example in Christ that no one could duplicate? He is called the firstfruits and the forerunner. Are there to be more God/men that he can be the firstdruits of cause he certainly cannot be the firstfruits of humanity. He is not human. (according to you)
Martianyou have only quoted the after facts that you pick out to fulfill your claim ,
but scriptures says that we are not like Adam ,(before he sinned)
but it says Jesus was the second Adam ,tell me how come Jesus could be not like us but like Adam I mean without sin,
if he would be born and be like us he would be a sinner NO???the only lesson in this picture seems to be that ,if Adam did not follow his wife he would still be able to have perfect children,
but scriptures have prophetic views of the coming Messiah ,
you did not quote them,and COL 1;15-18 and many others
so you produce a Swiss cheese
Huh?Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,04:16) Martian, Your entire posts argues against someone who claims Jesus was never a human being. I have never claimed such a thing.
What did your Jesus sacrifice, Martian?
So you believe Jesus is human made like his brethren in every way?Quote (shem4name @ April 22 2012,13:04) Quote (terraricca @ April 22 2012,05:15) Quote (shem4name @ April 22 2012,11:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,02:01) Gene, It is only your own personal wishes that say Jesus must have been exactly like the rest of us. The fact that he was begotten directly by God and had no human father should tell you right away that he was NOT exactly like the rest of us.
In your scenario, God picked a normal human being who was going to die anyway and made a sort of deal with him. God gave him Spirit and power to perform many signs and heal many people and the guarantee of everlasting life at His right hand, just for going through one day of suffering on a stake.
Gene, would you not trade one day of pain and suffering for an eternal life at the right hand of God? Would not any of us JUMP at that opportunity?
So where was the sacrifice Jesus made? After all, ALL men die eventually. And MANY of them are killed in more torturous and brutal ways than the way Jesus was killed. So what did your Jesus really sacrifice for us?
It is evident that you don't understand Phil 2. The mind of Christ we're suppose to have has to do with the fact that Jesus NEVER had to die in the first place. He was already immortal and living in glory alongside his God. THAT was the sacrifice, Gene, that he willingly emptied himself of the cushy life position he was in to be made as a lower species and suffer ridicule, humiliation, pain and death.
Seriously though, tell me what your Jesus actually sacrificed, since all men die. To me it seems as if your Jesus didn't sacrifice anything at all, but instead hit the jackpot of all jackpots………………one bad day in exchange for life eternal at the right hand of God, ruling over everything on heaven and earth.
You say-
It is only your own personal wishes that say Jesus must have been exactly like the rest of us.Reply – Really?
Are these a personal wish?
Jesus is a decendant of David. (Matt Chapter 1 and Mark 10/47)
Jesus has step siblings (Matt 13/55-56)
Jesus is the son of Man (John 8/29) [93 times Jesus is called the “Son of Man”]
Jesus has a soul (Matt 26/38)
Jesus has a human spirit (luke 23/46)
Jesus has a will (John 5/30 and Matt 26/39)
Jesus has a human body (Mark 15/43)
Jesus sleeps (Mark 4/38)
Jesus cries (John 11/35)
Jesus Prays (Luke 6/12, 18/20)
Jesus is the son of God (Luke 9/35)
Jesus is Lord = master in authority (John 13/13)
Jesus is the teacher (John 13/13)
Jesus is the second Adam(I Cor 15/45)
Jesus is a prophet and speaks prophetically from His Father Yahweh. (John 8/40) (a human calling)
Jesus was filled with the Spirit/Godhead/authority (Col 2/9)
Jesus is the Messiah (John 1/41and John 4/25&26)
Jesus is a made just like his brothers. (Hebrews 2/16 and 17)
There is one mediator between God (Yahweh) and Man (humanity) The MAN Christ Jesus. (I Tim 2/5)
Jesus is our brother (Matthew 12:50 , Hebrews 2:11)
Jesus is in submission to God (Yahweh) (I Cor 15/25-28) [ Just like the rest of humanity]
Jesus' source of Life is Yahweh (John 5/26)
Jesus dies. ( Mark 15/37 and 44,45)
Jesus was raised from the dead by God (Yahweh) ( I Cor 6/14)
God (Yahweh) gave Jesus authority over all mankind. (Matt 28/13)You say-
The fact that he was begotten directly by God and had no human father should tell you right away that he was NOT exactly like the rest of us.Reply – Adam had no human father and is called the son of God. Is he also non-human?
No one knows what happened at the conception. All we know is that a conception did take place. Can a human woman conceive anything other then a human child? What would be the point of having an example in Christ that no one could duplicate? He is called the firstfruits and the forerunner. Are there to be more God/men that he can be the firstdruits of cause he certainly cannot be the firstfruits of humanity. He is not human. (according to you)
Martianyou have only quoted the after facts that you pick out to fulfill your claim ,
but scriptures says that we are not like Adam ,(before he sinned)
but it says Jesus was the second Adam ,tell me how come Jesus could be not like us but like Adam I mean without sin,
if he would be born and be like us he would be a sinner NO???the only lesson in this picture seems to be that ,if Adam did not follow his wife he would still be able to have perfect children,
but scriptures have prophetic views of the coming Messiah ,
you did not quote them,and COL 1;15-18 and many others
so you produce a Swiss cheese
Huh?
The plan of God for man is clear. We are to grow and develop the character of God in us. For this reason Christ was given as our example. In this we truth lays our hope. Hope is the greatest of fruits. Without hope we have no motivation to move forward into the plan of God.
Show me a God that overcomes temptation and no big deal. Show me a man that does the same and I obtain hope that it is really possible.
Show me a God that loves in a pure manner and no big deal. Show me a man that does it and I know that it is possible for me to do the same.
Show me a man that God trusts to do miracles through and I have hope that God might use me in the same manner.
Show me a God that is raised from the dead and all I might do is ask how a God died in the first place but other then that would not be too impressed. Show me a man raised from the dead and given eternal life can I take hope that I can do the same.
The human Christ made like his brothers in all ways is the hope of Christianity.Acts 17:31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”
1 Peter 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Humanity is often dull and slow to learn. This is why God chose to use an example of what humanity could become. That example is Christ.
Quote (shem4name @ April 21 2012,13:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,04:16) Martian, Your entire posts argues against someone who claims Jesus was never a human being. I have never claimed such a thing.
What did your Jesus sacrifice, Martian?
His life? No greater love hath a man then he lay down his life for his fellow man.
All human beings die, Martian. And many of God's christs before Jesus were killed at the hands of men who didn't want to listen to the truth.What makes Jesus different from any of those other prophets? And what makes the sacrifice he made any greater than the lives they sacrificed?
Quote (shem4name @ April 21 2012,13:06) So you believe Jesus is human made like his brethren in every way?
I believe Jesus was made to be like his brethren in almost every way. (He of course knew no sin like the rest of his brethren.)But the teaching is that BECAUSE the children were flesh, Jesus had to PARTAKE in flesh also. The teaching has never been that Jesus was never anything but flesh.
Martian,
Your last post only reinforces my first comment on this thread: You wish to place Jesus where you WANT him to be (despite what the scriptures actually teach), for your own selfish reasons. Because it makes YOU feel more empowered if Jesus was nothing but “exactly like the rest of us”, you will teach a Jesus who was “exactly like the rest of us”.
I teach the scriptural Jesus, who existed in the form of God before willingly emptying himself of this grand existence to be “re-made” as a lower species, in order that some might be saved through him.
It is this mind we are to have in us. The willingness to walk completely away from any “frills” our current life holds if that is what it takes to do God's will.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,08:57) Martian, Your last post only reinforces my first comment on this thread: You wish to place Jesus where you WANT him to be (despite what the scriptures actually teach), for your own selfish reasons. Because it makes YOU feel more empowered if Jesus was nothing but “exactly like the rest of us”, you will teach a Jesus who was “exactly like the rest of us”.
I teach the scriptural Jesus, who existed in the form of God before willingly emptying himself of this grand existence to be “re-made” as a lower species, in order that some might be saved through him.
It is this mind we are to have in us. The willingness to walk completely away from any “frills” our current life holds if that is what it takes to do God's will.
OMG
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