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Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,16:41) Mike,
There you go again, mistaken.
I see Jesus as someone other than the First Power of YHVH obviously, since I see Him as the Second Power of YHVH, not the First Power of YHVH.You are the blind one here.
Quite clearly YHWH to you is two.We worship one YHWH.
He is the Father and God of our Lord Jesus Christ.
He is also our God.And just as Adam and Eve are 2 humans/adams, Jesus and the Father are 2 YHWH's to you.
You are teaching false doctrine and trying to convince men to break the most important of the 10 commandments. In the best case scenario Kathi, you will be considered least in the Kingdom. We both know what the worst case scenario is.
Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2013,20:41) Mike,
There you go again, mistaken.
I see Jesus as someone other than the First Power of YHVH obviously, since I see Him as the Second Power of YHVH, not the First Power of YHVH.You are the blind one here.
Take the blinders off, Kathi. Perhaps then you'll stop seeing things that aren't in the scriptures, and start seeing the things that are.Paul didn't seem confused when he clearly spoke about “the God of the people of Israel”………. AND……. the one that God SENT.
See Kathi? Only ONE is “the God of the people of Israel”, according to Paul. The other one mentioned is NOT “the God of the people of Israel”, but someone that God SENT.
Take those blinders off, girl, and you too will be able to see what we see.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 07 2013,02:20) Try opening your tiny eyes little fox and maybe you can say 'I see' also. 
KathiI can see what is written in scriptures ,it is you that see things that are not there,or create more things that in what the scriptures do not support ,
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 06 2013,16:22) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,16:41) Mike,
There you go again, mistaken.
I see Jesus as someone other than the First Power of YHVH obviously, since I see Him as the Second Power of YHVH, not the First Power of YHVH.You are the blind one here.
Quite clearly YHWH to you is two.We worship one YHWH.
He is the Father and God of our Lord Jesus Christ.
He is also our God.And just as Adam and Eve are 2 humans/adams, Jesus and the Father are 2 YHWH's to you.
You are teaching false doctrine and trying to convince men to break the most important of the 10 commandments. In the best case scenario Kathi, you will be considered least in the Kingdom. We both know what the worst case scenario is.
Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
You conveniently forget that I teach there are two powers of YHVH, while each is independently called YHVH and also as a corporate unity, called YHVH. The corporate unity lines up with the first commandment just fine as to the oneness of YHVH.Do you really think the 'Word of YHVH' that appeared to many in the OT is not to be assumed as part of YHVH in the first commandment as one to be worshiped as God?
You need to read the OT and the Targums if you think the 'Word of YHVH' is not assumed to be somehow a part of YHVH.
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 06 2013,16:55) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 07 2013,02:20) Try opening your tiny eyes little fox and maybe you can say 'I see' also.
KathiI can see what is written in scriptures ,it is you that see things that are not there,or create more things that in what the scriptures do not support ,
Maybe you need to spend more time studying about the 'Word of the LORD' that appeared to many in the OT. It would help you to see, also.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 06 2013,16:38) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2013,20:41) Mike,
There you go again, mistaken.
I see Jesus as someone other than the First Power of YHVH obviously, since I see Him as the Second Power of YHVH, not the First Power of YHVH.You are the blind one here.
Take the blinders off, Kathi. Perhaps then you'll stop seeing things that aren't in the scriptures, and start seeing the things that are.Paul didn't seem confused when he clearly spoke about “the God of the people of Israel”………. AND……. the one that God SENT.
See Kathi? Only ONE is “the God of the people of Israel”, according to Paul. The other one mentioned is NOT “the God of the people of Israel”, but someone that God SENT.
Take those blinders off, girl, and you too will be able to see what we see.
I'm sure you have trouble seeing that the root is also the shoot, too.Sometimes Jesus is spoken of as the 'shoot' and sometimes as the 'root' and sometimes as the 'root (theos) and shoot (Messiah).' Context will help you if you keep that in mind.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 07 2013,08:18) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 06 2013,16:55) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 07 2013,02:20) Try opening your tiny eyes little fox and maybe you can say 'I see' also.
KathiI can see what is written in scriptures ,it is you that see things that are not there,or create more things that in what the scriptures do not support ,
Maybe you need to spend more time studying about the 'Word of the LORD' that appeared to many in the OT. It would help you to see, also.
kATHIMay be what you need his the truth ,just as God as made it known to all of us ,and less trying to bring forth a personal view ,by making scriptures a void and mystery book that only the educated can understand ,
the scriptures are in my heart ,I live with them night and day ,
people that do not have the words of God in their heart ,they are looking to find new personal interpretation ,or old ones so they can impress others for their abundance of false teachings to the ignorant listening on them,
terraricca,
I think you should spend more time learning about the Word of the LORD that appeared to people in the OT and less time judging the brethren because you are not too good at it, imo.1 Samuel 3
10And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth. 11And the LORD said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle. 12In that day I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house: when I begin, I will also make an end. 13For I have told him that I will judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not. 14And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever.Samuel Shares his Vision
15And Samuel lay until the morning, and opened the doors of the house of the LORD. And Samuel feared to shew Eli the vision. 16Then Eli called Samuel, and said, Samuel, my son. And he answered, Here am I. 17And he said, What is the thing that the LORD hath said unto thee? I pray thee hide it not from me: God do so to thee, and more also, if thou hide any thing from me of all the things that he said unto thee. 18And Samuel told him every whit, and hid nothing from him. And he said, It is the LORD: let him do what seemeth him good.
19And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground. 20And all Israel from Dan even to Beersheba knew that Samuel was established to be a prophet of the LORD. 21And the LORD appeared again in Shiloh: for the LORD revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD.
Samuel saw a vision and heard the LORD who appeared by the Word of the LORD.
More for you terraricca,
Read and learn that the Word of the LORD came in a VISION, i.e. something to be seen:Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? 3And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 4And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. 7And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.
Do you see that the Word of the LORD came to Abraham in a VISION and also brought Abraham forth abroad and talked to Abraham? Also, notice that Abraham called the Word of the LORD, “LORD God?”
Obviously Abraham saw the Word of the LORD and associated that Word with his LORD God. So, do you think that worshiping the Word of the LORD that Abraham saw and also called LORD God, would be committing a sin against the first commandment?
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,20:21) I'm sure you have trouble seeing that the root is also the shoot, too.
No, I understand that Jesus was both before and after David…………. because that lesson is clearly taught in scripture.So if I can see that, why do you suppose you CAN'T see that Paul was speaking about “the God of the people of Israel”, and identified Jesus as someone OTHER THAN that God?
Is your wishful thinking hindering your ability to read the words as they were written?
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2013,10:46) More for you terraricca,
Read and learn that the Word of the LORD came in a VISION, i.e. something to be seen:Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? 3And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 4And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. 7And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.
Do you see that the Word of the LORD came to Abraham in a VISION and also brought Abraham forth abroad and talked to Abraham? Also, notice that Abraham called the Word of the LORD, “LORD God?”
Obviously Abraham saw the Word of the LORD and associated that Word with his LORD God. So, do you think that worshiping the Word of the LORD that Abraham saw and also called LORD God, would be committing a sin against the first commandment?
KathiGe 15:4 Then the word of the LORD came to him: “This man will not be your heir, but a son coming from your own body will be your heir.”
Ge 15:5 He took him outside and said, “Look up at the heavens and count the stars—if indeed you can count them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”
Ge 15:6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
Ge 15:7 He also said to him, “I am the LORD, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to take possession of it.”IT SEEMS THAT YOU CAN NOT SEE ,AND UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON HERE ,WHY IS THAT
terraricca,
I understand that the one that Abram saw in the vision who identified Himself as the LORD, gave Abram a message. That doesn't mean that the messenger wasn't YHVH but was only quoting YHVH. The Word of the LORD that was seen in the vision was actually called YHVH because the Son and the Father are both identified as YHVH. This is something that you don't seem to understand yet.
Tell me why the Word of the LORD is something that appears in a vision, i.e. something/someone that is seen? How can you see a word?
Tell me why the Word of the LORD that is seen and that takes Abraham outside and talks to him, is called LORD and says that He is LORD?
Do you believe that what Abram had SEEN in the vision in Gen 15:4 was not what Abram also visualized when he thought about and worshiped the LORD? In Gen 18, didn't Abraham seem to recognize one of the three men and speak about Him as YHVH, we know that the writer of Gen 18 calls the man, YHVH. Remember Abram had already seen a vision of someone who identified themselves as the LORD and that Abram called LORD. Seems likely that the one that was seen in a vision looks like the man in Gen 18.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 08 2013,23:52) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,20:21) I'm sure you have trouble seeing that the root is also the shoot, too.
No, I understand that Jesus was both before and after David…………. because that lesson is clearly taught in scripture.So if I can see that, why do you suppose you CAN'T see that Paul was speaking about “the God of the people of Israel”, and identified Jesus as someone OTHER THAN that God?
Is your wishful thinking hindering your ability to read the words as they were written?
There is much more for you to learn about the root and the shoot than a before and after existence, Mike.Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 10 2013,01:31) terraricca, I understand that the one that Abram saw in the vision who identified Himself as the LORD, gave Abram a message. That doesn't mean that the messenger wasn't YHVH but was only quoting YHVH. The Word of the LORD that was seen in the vision was actually called YHVH because the Son and the Father are both identified as YHVH. This is something that you don't seem to understand yet.
Tell me why the Word of the LORD is something that appears in a vision, i.e. something/someone that is seen? How can you see a word?
Tell me why the Word of the LORD that is seen and that takes Abraham outside and talks to him, is called LORD and says that He is LORD?
Do you believe that what Abram had SEEN in the vision in Gen 15:4 was not what Abram also visualized when he thought about and worshiped the LORD? In Gen 18, didn't Abraham seem to recognize one of the three men and speak about Him as YHVH, we know that the writer of Gen 18 calls the man, YHVH. Remember Abram had already seen a vision of someone who identified themselves as the LORD and that Abram called LORD. Seems likely that the one that was seen in a vision looks like the man in Gen 18.
kATHIGe 18:1 The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day.
Ge 18:2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.
Ge 18:3 He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by.so according to you IT HIS GOD HIMSELF THAT APPEARS TO ABRAHAM
terarricca,
It is the Second Power of YHVH, the Word of YHVH, Himself, that appears to Abraham, not the First Power of YHVH.Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 09 2013,13:46) There is much more for you to learn about the root and the shoot than a before and after existence, Mike.
Then by all means, teach me…………. using SCRIPTURES – not your imagination.Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 10 2013,06:13) terarricca,
It is the Second Power of YHVH, the Word of YHVH, Himself, that appears to Abraham, not the First Power of YHVH.
KATHIQuote It is the Second Power of YHVH, to my understanding God almighty does not have a second power,mind,soul,desire,set of rules,written word,or a second son ,
so I do not know were you are dig this up
yes it his the WORD (Christ) of God that appeared to Abraham,
always was the WORD that came down ;
Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his(God the father) side.
I (the WORD)was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.terarricca,
A person that sits at the right hand of the king is the second power in the kingdom. Would you agree?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2013,21:54) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 09 2013,13:46) There is much more for you to learn about the root and the shoot than a before and after existence, Mike.
Then by all means, teach me…………. using SCRIPTURES – not your imagination.
We are discussing this on the root and stem thread. Look there.
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