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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 23 2012,13:55) The question was WHY would we need to come to the SECOND Almighty God? If Jesus can do everything his own God can do, then why is the hope to be judged worthy by Jesus to approach God? Is the second Almighty God capable of doing something for us that the first one cannot do? YES or NO?
Yes, one is a Father/God to us and one is a Brother/Lord to us.Quote (t8 @ Oct. 24 2012,19:29) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 21 2012,16:38) When I say “original eternal nature” I'm referring to the eternal past.
Which comes from the creeds of men.Another God eternally proceeding from the Original God and yet not one without the other and both YHWH, and sharing the same DNA code that is spirit, but excluding angels and men who are born of the spirit because they never eternally proceeded from the YHWH like the other YHWH did and does and will do, except when he emptied himself of YHWH and came as Yeshua.
Makes perfect sense NOT.
This is shameful and is a sham.
Although we know that false teachers have come and try to deceive many.
They are deceived and deceive.
Nah, He never emptied Himself of Himself. He was still YHWH the Son when He was also man.“Hear O Israel, the LORD [Yahweh] our God [Elohim; plural], the LORD [Yahweh] is One [echad; unity].”
Interesting side note, there is no verb 'is' in the Hebrew.
Why in the world would angels and men be YHWH since they were created?? You can't be YHWH and have a created beginning. If you think that, then you don't understand the meaning of YHWH. That is like saying the created ones will become their own creator. On the flip side, if one was not a created beginning but always existed as the deity who was always with His Son within Him who was and who is exactly like the Him, then the name that expresses the eternalness of one would also suit the other.
Here you skeptics go, t8, Mike, Pierre…plenty of scripture to help you see.
Watch all four videos here:Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 24 2012,22:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 23 2012,13:55) Is the second Almighty God capable of doing something for us that the first one cannot do? YES or NO?
Yes, one is a Father/God to us and one is a Brother/Lord to us.
But if they can both do the same thing for us, then what difference would it make to us if our God was our brother or our Father?Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 24 2012,22:45) Why in the world would angels and men be YHWH since they were created?? You can't be YHWH and have a created beginning
Bingo! Jesus was created as the first of YHWH's works, and Micah 5 speaks about his beginning.Surely you can now at least see why we don't buy into your “eternal YHWH the Son” fantasy, right?
The difference between us is that you will go to great lengths to say Col 1:15, Rev 3:12, Micah 5:2, and other scriptures don't really mean what they clearly say. We don't have that same disillusionment, because unlike you, we aren't trying to FORCE the scriptures into teaching something they don't actually teach.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 25 2012,18:45) Nah, He never emptied Himself of Himself. He was still YHWH the Son when He was also man.
Oh this is getting real interesting now.YHWH 1 is the Father and doesn't have a name.
YHWH 2 has the name Yeshua and he emptied himself of something.So lets revise the theory so far:
Another God eternally proceeding from the Original God and yet not one without the other and both YHWH, and sharing the same DNA code that is spirit, but excluding angels and men who are born of the spirit because they never eternally proceeded from the YHWH like the other YHWH did and does and will do, except when he emptied himself of something and came as Yeshua.
Still a load of cobblers but with the added mystery of emptying himself of something.
Are you happy with the summation so far. If not, please edit and re-post so we can see your creed.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 25 2012,18:56) Here you skeptics go, t8, Mike, Pierre…plenty of scripture to help you see.
Watch all four videos here:
Ha ha. I told you that you would end up being a Trinitarian.I said you were fast tracking the history of the development of the Trinity by starting with the Binity.
This is a witness to me as to how foolish some were back then, and is evident in you for all to see.
You lack understanding because of your bias and you are an example to all who decide to challenge the first commandment. By doing so, you end up perpetuating Babylon and causing division and discord. When you continue to push in that direction, God hands you over to your own futile imagination.
And the only reason this guy is teaching the Jewish Trinity is because he believes in the Trinity to start with. The thinking goes like this. He believes in the Trinity, so that means that the Jews must have also believed it. And now I need to extract this somehow.
All false doctrine works like this and you can always find a way to make the truth of God into a lie.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 25 2012,17:37) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 25 2012,18:45) Nah, He never emptied Himself of Himself. He was still YHWH the Son when He was also man.
Oh this is getting real interesting now.YHWH 1 is the Father and doesn't have a name.
YHWH 2 has the name Yeshua and he emptied himself of something.So lets revise the theory so far:
Another God eternally proceeding from the Original God and yet not one without the other and both YHWH, and sharing the same DNA code that is spirit, but excluding angels and men who are born of the spirit because they never eternally proceeded from the YHWH like the other YHWH did and does and will do, except when he emptied himself of something and came as Yeshua.
Still a load of cobblers but with the added mystery of emptying himself of something.
Are you happy with the summation so far. If not, please edit and re-post so we can see your creed.
Well, you are getting closer. The Father and the Son are both named YHWH. The Son was given the Father's name. Also, They are both eternal.Also, I have never changed my belief that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit being part of this unity of YHWH, in fact I believe it to be true. I just don't like the term binity or trinity because it is not about how many but about the eternal unity, the 'YHWH Echad.'
So, I think that is a good label for what I believe…The YHWH Echad, the Eternal Unity.
Btw, we aren't told what He emptied Himself of, maybe immortality since He died and was given eternal life. Also, He probably emptied Himself of the glory He deserved and the privileges amd memories of being YHWH. But again, we aren't told specifically. I am just speculating.
If you wonder why I am here taking all your crap t8, it is because I care for you and the others and I am trying to help you. This HN experience is proving to be a good exercise of how to take crap and yet not return it. I'm not perfect in it yet but I think I am improving so that is worth something.
Watch the videos so we can discuss them. I think I will make a special thread just to discuss these videos.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2012,14:20) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 24 2012,22:45) Why in the world would angels and men be YHWH since they were created?? You can't be YHWH and have a created beginning
Bingo! Jesus was created as the first of YHWH's works, and Micah 5 speaks about his beginning.Surely you can now at least see why we don't buy into your “eternal YHWH the Son” fantasy, right?
The difference between us is that you will go to great lengths to say Col 1:15, Rev 3:12, Micah 5:2, and other scriptures don't really mean what they clearly say. We don't have that same disillusionment, because unlike you, we aren't trying to FORCE the scriptures into teaching something they don't actually teach.
Jesus was eternal. Perhaps you can understand why I believe what I believe since I do not see Him as created.Firstborn is not first created…don't twist the scriptures.
No Kathi. Eternal beings aren't said to have died. Nor are they said to be “born”, “begotten”, “created” or “brought forth” as the first of someone else's works. Nor can they be another one's “son”, for a father ALWAYS exists BEFORE the son he brings forth into existence.
You have made a dire mistake in this matter.
No Mike,
Eternal beings are almighty and can do anything they purpose to do. The eternal Father had to have an eternal Son within Him in order to be a 'father.'I don't know of any fathers who were fathers before their first offspring existed within their parent.
Mike,
The Father and the Son are both the 'First and the Last.'Isaiah 44:6
Thus said Jehovah, king of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of Hosts: 'I am the first, and I the last, And besides Me there is no God.Rev 22:12“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
And, no god was formed before or after YHWH.
Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.
Jesus was theos that was with theos in the beginning and He did not come before YHWH or after YHWH.
Kathi,
Now would you actually answer the question I asked you?
(As for Isaiah 43:10, read the NET version, and the footnote.)
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 26 2012,15:39) Watch the videos, learn something. I'm trying to help you!!
Paul of Tarsus: (1) For us there is one God the Father.
Kathi of America: (2) For me there is one God the Father and Son.
KangarooJack of America: (3) For me there is One God the Father, Son, Spirit.
Armstrong: (4) For me there is one God the Father, Son, Spirit, and Children.
New Age: For us there is one God and we are all that God.Have I missed out any others.
Now consider this. Only one can be right or they were all wrong. It is also laughable when people put their alternative view up there. What makes them think they can do that? Is it arrogance? Pride? What makes a person dare to challenge God's own truth to become an adversary? Isn't that what Satan did?
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 01 2012,03:34) Does today mean eternity? “Today I have become your father.”
t8,
Technically the verse in Hebrews and Psalms that you refer to does not have the word 'Father' in it. The correct translation is “Today I have begotten you.” A dad is already a father before the child is brought forth if the child is within. This is the second time I have told you this. The first time you gave no response. Can you acknowledge this comment?
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