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edj
Quote Sorry, but I don't agree with your assumptions. this is not an assumption this is a truth ,God has a limit were HE his ,and when he his here he his not there ,this does not mean he can not go there ,BUT WHY YOU THINK HE CREATED SOMETHING LIKE 100,000,000 ANGELS ,DO YOU THINK THEY PLAY SOLITAIRE
Mike/Ed,
Thanks for the help, I think colors help follow on multi tiered posts keeping track whose “talking”.This post will see if I got it right.
Wm
Better
Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 19 2012,23:04) Mike/Ed,
Thanks for the help, I think colors help follow on multi tiered posts keeping track whose “talking”.This post will see if I got it right.
Wm
Hi Wm,Looks like you've chosen “navyblue”.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Wm,
The navy blue really stands out. And I agree that it makes it easy to see who's saying what. (I'm going to miss your dark green, though.
)Quote (t8 @ Oct. 18 2012,17:24) True Mike. A mediator who takes us to God, is not a mediator if he is God.
Exactly t8,If human beings must go through a mediator to get to God, then the mediator cannot be the God we are going through him to get to.
(Boy, that's an oddly worded sentence.
)Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 18 2012,20:31) Hi Mike, Sorry, but I don't agree with your assumptions.
No sweat Eddy,We agree on some things, and disagree on others. But I don't see any way around it: If God is truly everywhere, then God is also everything.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 19 2012,18:15) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 18 2012,17:24) True Mike. A mediator who takes us to God, is not a mediator if he is God.
Exactly t8,If human beings must go through a mediator to get to God, then the mediator cannot be the God we are going through him to get to.
(Boy, that's an oddly worded sentence.
)
How strange that you keep forgetting that one is the Father and one is the Son. The Son becomes the mediator to return us to the Father. The Son does not become the mediator to return us to Himself but in order for Him to return us to the Father, we must know the Son and believe in the Son.Quote (t8 @ Oct. 18 2012,18:25) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 19 2012,04:36) Animals are under man's authority no matter the man's choices…he/she is given authority simply because the nature of being human due to the Creator's design when 'they' made us.
But humans can die like animals because not all are honourable or worthy. Likewise a person might be born a king. By his office he is honoured as king for a moment. But ultimately in eternity, he will not be honoured. And likewise a poor man may become a king under Christ because of who he is, not what he is.We are rewarded with positions in Heavenly places because of who we are, not what we are. One man might suffer destruction, another saved but with no additional reward, still another as a commander of legions of angels. All were men by nature, but their characters and lifestyle were obviously different.
Nature dictates certain priviledges…did Jesus die for the sins of animals or for the sins of mankind. Men cannot be YHWH because of not having the right original eternal nature. One has to have original eternal nature to be YHWH.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 18 2012,09:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 18 2012,07:54) Mike,
you asked:Quote Also, do you acknowledge that you can't make a SOLID claim of “God-worship” to Jesus just from the Greek word “proskuneo”, and that any claims of such from you or others is only wishful thinking that can't possibly be proved from scripture? No, not just from the word but yes from the word and the context. Can you prove that the Jesus said to worship the Father just from the word 'proskuneo?' This argument goes both ways.
Great. And from the context of the scriptures as a whole, do you suppose “proskuneo” in the case of Jehovah means “God-worship”? Most likely you do, so there is no argument about that one.On the other hand, there is much argument in the case of Jesus. There is no context that says anybody in the Bible EVER thought Jesus was God Almighty and worshiped him as such. This comes only from your imagination.
So thank you for being honest and admitting there is no way for you to make a claim that Jesus was worshiped as God Almighty just from the word “proskuneo”. As for context, like I said, that is just your wishful thinking. Jesus himself told us the ONLY one to whom our worship should go, and it was not himself. In fact, he also worshiped our God and his God – just like he taught we should do.
Listen to your Lord, Kathi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPQSaeuLTDI&feature=channel&list=ULWatch, listen and learn…
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2012,18:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 19 2012,18:15) If human beings must go through a mediator to get to God, then the mediator cannot be the God we are going through him to get to. (Boy, that's an oddly worded sentence.
)
How strange that you keep forgetting that one is the Father and one is the Son. The Son becomes the mediator to return us to the Father. The Son does not become the mediator to return us to Himself but in order for Him to return us to the Father, we must know the Son and believe in the Son.
Kathi,In your “TWO Almighty Gods” theory, you would have us going through one Almighty God to reach the other. For what purpose? If we have reached the first one, what need is there for us to reach the second one? Can the second one do something for us that the first one cannot?
But anyway, my statement was geared more toward traditional Trinitarians, who believe in only ONE Almighty God. In their theory, we must go through our ONE Almighty God to reach our ONE Almighty God.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2012,18:37) Men cannot be YHWH because of not having the right original eternal nature. One has to have original eternal nature to be YHWH.
If one has “original eternal nature”, then there is no chance of that one ever dying. Jesus died. Paul says he cannot die AGAIN, because death NO LONGER has mastery over him.When I say “original eternal nature” I'm referring to the eternal past. Btw, Jesus wouldn't have died if He didn't empty Himself and become flesh.
Go watch that video! Please!!
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 21 2012,08:38) When I say “original eternal nature” I'm referring to the eternal past. Btw, Jesus wouldn't have died if He didn't empty Himself and become flesh. Go watch that video! Please!!
KathiIF “………..
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 20 2012,21:02) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2012,18:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 19 2012,18:15) If human beings must go through a mediator to get to God, then the mediator cannot be the God we are going through him to get to. (Boy, that's an oddly worded sentence.
)
How strange that you keep forgetting that one is the Father and one is the Son. The Son becomes the mediator to return us to the Father. The Son does not become the mediator to return us to Himself but in order for Him to return us to the Father, we must know the Son and believe in the Son.
Kathi,In your “TWO Almighty Gods” theory, you would have us going through one Almighty God to reach the other. For what purpose? If we have reached the first one, what need is there for us to reach the second one? Can the second one do something for us that the first one cannot?
But anyway, my statement was geared more toward traditional Trinitarians, who believe in only ONE Almighty God. In their theory, we must go through our ONE Almighty God to reach our ONE Almighty God.
Why in the world would you not want both the Father and the Son? Do you really want to just use them? Do you not long to live with both for eternity?The question was WHY would we need to come to the SECOND Almighty God? If Jesus can do everything his own God can do, then why is the hope to be judged worthy by Jesus to approach God?
Is the second Almighty God capable of doing something for us that the first one cannot do? YES or NO?
Kathi,
I read Exodus 24 in the NETBible today, and found this enlightening:
This chapter is the climax of God’s bringing people into covenant with himself, the completion of his revelation to them, a completion that is authenticated with the miraculous. It ends with the mediator going up in the clouds to be with God, and the people down below eagerly awaiting his return. The message of the whole chapter could be worded this way: Those whom God sanctifies by the blood of the covenant and instructs by the book of the covenant may enjoy fellowship with him and anticipate a far more glorious fellowship. So too in the NT the commandments and teachings of Jesus are confirmed by his miraculous deeds and by his glorious manifestation on the Mount of the Transfiguration, where a few who represented the disciples would see his glory and be able to teach others. The people of the new covenant have been brought into fellowship with God through the blood of the covenant; they wait eagerly for his return from heaven in the clouds.
Do you see the similarities between Moses and Jesus? The two covenants both sanctified by blood? Both of the MEDIATORS of God disappearing into the clouds as they went to the Father, while the people waited anxiously below for their return?
Yet it is only the MEDIATOR Jesus whom certain people try to make into the very God Almighty he went to – not the mediator Moses. Interesting.
NETNotes didn't touch on what Aaron and the rest of the Israelites did while awaiting the return of Moses. They converted the invisible God of heaven into something they could see with their eyes, touch with their hands, and relate to.
And just like the golden calf that the Israelites made and worshiped as God, people today have made Jesus into a sort of golden calf to be worshiped as God.
It's almost as if certain people must be able to SEE their God with their own eyes, and touch him with their own hands, in order for him to be their God. In Moses' day, they made the calf that they could see with their own eyes, and touch with their own hands. In the early centuries following the death of Jesus, certain people made Jesus into a God who could be seen with human eyes, and touched with human hands.
Interesting connections, don't you think?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2012,16:04) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2012,18:37) Men cannot be YHWH because of not having the right original eternal nature. One has to have original eternal nature to be YHWH.
If one has “original eternal nature”, then there is no chance of that one ever dying. Jesus died. Paul says he cannot die AGAIN, because death NO LONGER has mastery over him.
Kathi, you are making this up as you go.We are born of the spirit and hence the sons of God because we are not created of corruptible seed, but of the spirit.
Your view is not scriptural and is your own or someone else's idea.
I could make things up as I go too. But I don't think that is wise.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 21 2012,16:38) When I say “original eternal nature” I'm referring to the eternal past.
Which comes from the creeds of men.Another God eternally proceeding from the Original God and yet not one without the other and both YHWH, and sharing the same DNA code that is spirit, but excluding angels and men who are born of the spirit because they never eternally proceeded from the YHWH like the other YHWH did and does and will do, except when he emptied himself of YHWH and came as Yeshua.
Makes perfect sense NOT.
This is shameful and is a sham.
Although we know that false teachers have come and try to deceive many.
They are deceived and deceive.Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 22 2012,11:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 20 2012,21:02) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2012,18:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 19 2012,18:15) If human beings must go through a mediator to get to God, then the mediator cannot be the God we are going through him to get to. (Boy, that's an oddly worded sentence.
)
How strange that you keep forgetting that one is the Father and one is the Son. The Son becomes the mediator to return us to the Father. The Son does not become the mediator to return us to Himself but in order for Him to return us to the Father, we must know the Son and believe in the Son.
Kathi,In your “TWO Almighty Gods” theory, you would have us going through one Almighty God to reach the other. For what purpose? If we have reached the first one, what need is there for us to reach the second one? Can the second one do something for us that the first one cannot?
But anyway, my statement was geared more toward traditional Trinitarians, who believe in only ONE Almighty God. In their theory, we must go through our ONE Almighty God to reach our ONE Almighty God.
Why in the world would you not want both the Father and the Son? Do you really want to just use them? Do you not long to live with both for eternity?
kathithe way you are going you end up living with neither
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