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Jesus was both human and divine, he was a miraculous person. Maybe we should have faith and stop trying to figure out something that the finite, time and space bound mind of man cannot understand.
Does the risen Christ Live?
What is his office >now< ?
Have faith.
Colter
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2012,23:44) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 17 2012,01:38) Mike,
Do you bow down to a theos when you bow down to Jesus?
I don't bow down to Jesus. There will be a time and a place where all will bow to him, me included.But Jesus called those to whom the word of God came “gods”, right Kathi?
David was one of those, right? So David was called a god in scripture, and he was also bowed before in scripture, right?
So take that in before you hit me with the “thou shalt not bow before any other god” scripture.
Kathi, Jesus told us the ONE to whom we should give our worship………… and it wasn't him. Instead, it was the same One HE worshiped.
Also, do you acknowledge that you can't make a SOLID claim of “God-worship” to Jesus just from the Greek word “proskuneo”, and that any claims of such from you or others is only wishful thinking that can't possibly be proved from scripture?
So Mike,
When you DO bow down to Jesus, will you be bowing down to a theos who is a theos by nature or one who is only metaphorically a theos??Clearly David was not a theos by nature but 'as a theos' like Moses and the judges…it is merely meant as a metaphor. Not so in Jesus' case. He is truly a theos by nature.
Quote (Colter @ Oct. 18 2012,06:16) Jesus was both human and divine, he was a miraculous person. Maybe we should have faith and stop trying to figure out something that the finite, time and space bound mind of man cannot understand. Does the risen Christ Live?
What is his office >now< ?
Have faith.
Colter
Hi Colter,
Good post. We argue over and over to figure out something that comes by faith. We all need to be able to make a defense for that faith though.Jude 1:3
Dear friends, although I was eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I found it necessary to write to you and urge you to continue your vigorous defense of the faith that was passed down to the saints once and for all.Btw, yes, the risen Christ does live and is in the office of Mediator/High Priest.
Mike,
you asked:Quote Also, do you acknowledge that you can't make a SOLID claim of “God-worship” to Jesus just from the Greek word “proskuneo”, and that any claims of such from you or others is only wishful thinking that can't possibly be proved from scripture? No, not just from the word but yes from the word and the context. Can you prove that the Jesus said to worship the Father just from the word 'proskuneo?' This argument goes both ways.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 19 2012,03:42) So Mike,
When you DO bow down to Jesus, will you be bowing down to a theos who is a theos by nature or one who is only metaphorically a theos??Clearly David was not a theos by nature but 'as a theos' like Moses and the judges…it is merely meant as a metaphor. Not so in Jesus' case. He is truly a theos by nature.
In scripture Jesus is worshipped or honoured as the lamb and as the son of God. But not as God.Moses was also honoured. But for a different reason I would suspect.
And as for the nature thing. He partook in our nature and we will get a body like his. He calls us brothers. I don't think worship has anything to do with your nature but who you are.
Nature is given for free. Who you are is more important I think because it is a combination of who God made you to be and what choices you have made. If you have chosen well, then I think honour is due.
Scripture does honor Jesus as God, not God the Father though. Thomas called Him “the Lord of me and the God of me,” for starters.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 18 2012,07:54) Mike,
you asked:Quote Also, do you acknowledge that you can't make a SOLID claim of “God-worship” to Jesus just from the Greek word “proskuneo”, and that any claims of such from you or others is only wishful thinking that can't possibly be proved from scripture? No, not just from the word but yes from the word and the context. Can you prove that the Jesus said to worship the Father just from the word 'proskuneo?' This argument goes both ways.
Great. And from the context of the scriptures as a whole, do you suppose “proskuneo” in the case of Jehovah means “God-worship”? Most likely you do, so there is no argument about that one.On the other hand, there is much argument in the case of Jesus. There is no context that says anybody in the Bible EVER thought Jesus was God Almighty and worshiped him as such. This comes only from your imagination.
So thank you for being honest and admitting there is no way for you to make a claim that Jesus was worshiped as God Almighty just from the word “proskuneo”. As for context, like I said, that is just your wishful thinking. Jesus himself told us the ONLY one to whom our worship should go, and it was not himself. In fact, he also worshiped our God and his God – just like he taught we should do.
Listen to your Lord, Kathi.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 18 2012,07:50) Quote (Colter @ Oct. 18 2012,06:16)
What is his office >now< ?
Hi Colter,……….the risen Christ does live and is in the office of Mediator/High Priest.
That is correct. The office of Christ is Mediator and High Priest OF our one and only Most High God. He sits at the right hand OF our one and only Almighty God.Surely God Almighty is not a Priest to Himself, right? Surely He does not sit at His own right hand, right?
Quote And as for the nature thing. He partook in our nature and we will get a body like his. He calls us brothers. I don't think worship has anything to do with your nature but who you are. Nature is given for free. Who you are is more important I think because it is a combination of who God made you to be and what choices you have made. If you have chosen well, then I think honour is due.
When one's worship is regarding authority, it can have everything to do with nature and nothing to do with the choices the one in authority makes.
Animals are under man's authority no matter the man's choices…he/she is given authority simply because the nature of being human due to the Creator's design when 'they' made us.
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
Again, sometimes the nature of a being decides who is honored with authority. Authority is not always earned. In the Father and Son's case there is both nature, and worthiness that requires our honor.
Mike,
God Almighty the Son is the one that is the High Priest because He was the only one of the two that humbled Himself to become flesh and was slain. Apart from God Almighty the Son becoming flesh, there would not be opportunity to be mediated for. We all would face eternal destruction.Quote (Colter @ Oct. 18 2012,17:16) Jesus was both human and divine, he was a miraculous person. Maybe we should have faith and stop trying to figure out something that the finite, time and space bound mind of man cannot understand. Does the risen Christ Live?
What is his office >now< ?
Have faith.
Colter
your comment seems to cancel out any scriptures that tells us who his God and who his his son ,due to the difficulty YOU or SOME have to accept or understand those scriptures ,many have made up their mind of not to believe what is written and so live in an argumental world of their own,and try to spread it around,this is not the way the apostles were tought and they themself did not teach any other that came to them in respond to their message,(gospel)
there will be a time were we will worship all who are to be worship and honored the way it should be as per God almighty 's will but then we the true believers will be in another world with very different condissions .
Yeah, I see Wm is using green a lot lately, but he is coding it to be green each time.
We'll have to let him know how to “pre-set” his color to green in the settings, so he doesn't have to keep writing, “Color=green” all the time.
Ed, could you send Wm a pm explaining to him how to do that?
Okay Wm,
Click on “Your Control Panel”. Then click on “Personal Info”. Then click on “Edit Your Profile”. At the bottom of that screen is where you can choose your post color.
Ed gave me the link to a site that offered a lot more colors to choose from, which worked good for me because I didn't like the “purple” available on this site.
You can just copy and paste the number of the color from Ed's link to the box that displays the color on the “Edit Your Profile” page. I'm sure you can find plenty of those color sites just by Googling “color sites” or something.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 18 2012,08:41) Mike,
God Almighty the Son is the one that is the High Priest because He was the only one of the two that humbled Himself to become flesh and was slain. Apart from God Almighty the Son becoming flesh, there would not be opportunity to be mediated for. We all would face eternal destruction.
Think about what you're saying, Kathi. You are saying that without the Mediator, we could not come to God Almighty and would therefore face eternal destruction.Yet you also maintain that we have already arrived at God Almighty by the time we make it to the Mediator.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 19 2012,04:36) Animals are under man's authority no matter the man's choices…he/she is given authority simply because the nature of being human due to the Creator's design when 'they' made us.
But humans can die like animals because not all are honourable or worthy. Likewise a person might be born a king. By his office he is honoured as king for a moment. But ultimately in eternity, he will not be honoured. And likewise a poor man may become a king under Christ because of who he is, not what he is.We are rewarded with positions in Heavenly places because of who we are, not what we are. One man might suffer destruction, another saved but with no additional reward, still another as a commander of legions of angels. All were men by nature, but their characters and lifestyle were obviously different.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 18 2012,15:29) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 16 2012,18:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2012,05:15) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 14 2012,14:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 12 2012,06:16) Do you agree that if God was truly EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME, then God would be everyone and everything, and everyone and everything would be God?
That is incorrect logic.
How so, Ed?If God is truly EVERYWHERE, then God makes up the atoms of which we are all formed. If God is our atoms, then God is us – therefore we are God.
Please explain how my logic is incorrect.
Saying 'God is our atoms' is yet another incorrect logic assumption.
If a raft it on the Ocean – is the raft part of the ocean?
Ed,If God was truly EVERYWHERE, He would not only be the ocean, but the raft on it and the fish in it – not to mention the land and the air surrounding it. Oh, and the birds flying around in that air too.
Ed, the being of Mikeboll64 takes up a minute amount of space in this universe. Now, do I take up this space? Or does God? If God is truly EVERYWHERE, then God takes up the space that is occupied by the being Mikeboll64. And if that is the case, God IS Mikeboll64 and Mikeboll64 IS God.
Ed, if there is nothing separating where God exists from where He doesn't, then He exists EVERYWHERE – including within the space that Mikeboll64 takes up. And if God exists in the space Mikeboll64 takes up, then God is my atoms, my cells, my bones, my flesh, etc. If God is all these things, then there is no distinction between what is God and what is Mikeboll64.
Are you starting to grasp this yet?
Hi Mike,Sorry, but I don't agree with your assumptions.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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