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Andrew,
I never saw the Nicene creed as making three Gods to be one. I don't think that the Nicene Creed specifically mentions that. I really don't see a difference between those Arian confessions and the Nicene creed.Why do you like the confession if it says that the Son was begotten before the ages? It anathemas anyone that says He wasn't begotten before the ages in this statement:
“And if any teaches, beside the sound and right faith of the Scriptures, that time, or season, or age, either is or has been before the generation of the Son, be he anathema. “You say that there has been the OT age before the generation of the Son, don't you?
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 14 2012,14:43) Pierre seemed to say that Jesus never received worship as a theos but only as in the sense of 'honor' and I totally disagree.
Disagree all you want, but you can't PROVE that anyone EVER “worshipped” Jesus with the worship due a diety.This is from your imagination, and not from the scriptural word “proskuneo”.
Jesus himself told us who the ONLY one was to receive our worship. He himself worshipped the same One he told us to worship.
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 14 2012,14:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 12 2012,06:16) Ed, Did you even read the points I made? Do you agree that if God was truly EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME, then God would be everyone and everything, and everyone and everything would be God?
Hi Mike,That is incorrect logic.
God bless
Ed J
How so, Ed?If God is truly EVERYWHERE, then God makes up the atoms of which we are all formed. If God is our atoms, then God is us – therefore we are God.
Please explain how my logic is incorrect.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 15 2012,01:42) Obviously I do not believe the pre-incarnate Christ was created but was the expression of the non-corporeal Father in a corporeal existence
Well then, your beliefs don't align with MANY scriptures. Would you like a list of those scriptures?Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 15 2012,01:42) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) This Son was a powerful spiritual being, Is there a verse that states this?
Phil 2:6, John 17:5, John 6:38, etc.Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 15 2012,01:42) Prior to being emptied everything the Father did in this world was done through this manifestation
Wm, compare your words above with your words below:Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 15 2012,01:42) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) And through this Son, God subsequently created all other things that exist. agreed
If you agree that all things were subsequently created through God's Son, then God's Son must have existed before those things were created through him. Do you suppose that what you call “the manifestation of God” is what I call “the Son of God”?Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 16 2012,13:45) Andrew,
I never saw the Nicene creed as making three Gods to be one. I don't think that the Nicene Creed specifically mentions that. I really don't see a difference between those Arian confessions and the Nicene creed.Why do you like the confession if it says that the Son was begotten before the ages? It anathemas anyone that says He wasn't begotten before the ages in this statement:
“And if any teaches, beside the sound and right faith of the Scriptures, that time, or season, or age, either is or has been before the generation of the Son, be he anathema. “You say that there has been the OT age before the generation of the Son, don't you?
I said I like it better than the Nicene,not that I agree with all it says.I said I like the anathemas most of all
in jest of course. I guess I'm just double damned by the doctrines of men.” namely a Father who is truly father, and a son who is truly son, and of the Holy Spirit who is truly Holy Spirit, the names not being given without meaning or effect, but denoting accurately the peculiar subsistence, rank, and glory of each that is named, so that they are three in subsistence, and in agreement one.”
These words bring out what I've brought up before that trinitarian doctrine actually negates a real Father and son by making them equal Gods.
I understand begotten to mean only born and the only place I see Christ being born is when He was born a human.And because of His miraculous conception He is called the Son of God.
All praise to our blessed Saviour and to our Father!
Oh hear these words anew in thy heart—Lk1:35 35 And the angel answered, and said to her, The Holy Ghost shall come from above into thee, and the virtue of the Highest shall overshadow thee; and therefore that holy thing that shall be born of thee, shall be called the Son of God.Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 16 2012,13:45) Andrew,
I never saw the Nicene creed as making three Gods to be one. I don't think that the Nicene Creed specifically mentions that. I really don't see a difference between those Arian confessions and the Nicene creed.Why do you like the confession if it says that the Son was begotten before the ages? It anathemas anyone that says He wasn't begotten before the ages in this statement:
“And if any teaches, beside the sound and right faith of the Scriptures, that time, or season, or age, either is or has been before the generation of the Son, be he anathema. “You say that there has been the OT age before the generation of the Son, don't you?
LightenupQuote I never saw the Nicene creed as making three Gods to be one
You're right,it's the later creeds and doctrine that build upon this.
The main argument was against the use of the homoousian-or essence,being-that father and son were essentially the same-one incarnate while one not.
Here's the original Nicene Creed as adopted in 325AD;the one in use now is the modified creed of Constantinople 381 ADWe believe in one God, father almighty, maker of all things, both visible and invisible.
We believe in one lord, Jesus Christ, the son of God, begotten of the Father, only-begotten, that is of the being of the Father, God of God, light of light, true God of true God, begotten not made, one being with the father, through whom all things came to be, both those in heaven and those upon the earth, who because of us human beings and because of our salvation descended, became enfleshed, became human, suffered and rose on the third day, ascending to the heavens, coming to judge the living and dead.
And in the Holy Spirit.
Those who say there was a time when he was not, and that before he was begotten He was not, or that he was made out of nothing; or who say that the son of God is of any other substance, or that he is changeable or unstable, these the catholic and apostolic Church anathematizes.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2012,05:15) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 14 2012,14:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 12 2012,06:16) Ed, Did you even read the points I made? Do you agree that if God was truly EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME, then God would be everyone and everything, and everyone and everything would be God?
Hi Mike,That is incorrect logic.
God bless
Ed J
How so, Ed?If God is truly EVERYWHERE, then God makes up the atoms of which we are all formed. If God is our atoms, then God is us – therefore we are God.
Please explain how my logic is incorrect.
Hi Mike,Saying 'God is our atoms' is yet another incorrect logic assumption.
If a raft it on the Ocean – is the raft part of the ocean?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 16 2012,13:06) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 14 2012,14:43) Pierre seemed to say that Jesus never received worship as a theos but only as in the sense of 'honor' and I totally disagree.
Disagree all you want, but you can't PROVE that anyone EVER “worshipped” Jesus with the worship due a diety.This is from your imagination, and not from the scriptural word “proskuneo”.
Jesus himself told us who the ONLY one was to receive our worship. He himself worshipped the same One he told us to worship.
Mike,
Do you bow down to a theos when you bow down to Jesus?Quote (AndrewAD @ Oct. 16 2012,16:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 16 2012,13:45) Andrew,
I never saw the Nicene creed as making three Gods to be one. I don't think that the Nicene Creed specifically mentions that. I really don't see a difference between those Arian confessions and the Nicene creed.Why do you like the confession if it says that the Son was begotten before the ages? It anathemas anyone that says He wasn't begotten before the ages in this statement:
“And if any teaches, beside the sound and right faith of the Scriptures, that time, or season, or age, either is or has been before the generation of the Son, be he anathema. “You say that there has been the OT age before the generation of the Son, don't you?
I said I like it better than the Nicene,not that I agree with all it says.I said I like the anathemas most of all in jest of course. I guess I'm just double damned by the doctrines of men.” namely a Father who is truly father, and a son who is truly son, and of the Holy Spirit who is truly Holy Spirit, the names not being given without meaning or effect, but denoting accurately the peculiar subsistence, rank, and glory of each that is named, so that they are three in subsistence, and in agreement one.”
These words bring out what I've brought up before that trinitarian doctrine actually negates a real Father and son by making them equal Gods.
I understand begotten to mean only born and the only place I see Christ being born is when He was born a human.And because of His miraculous conception He is called the Son of God.
All praise to our blessed Saviour and to our Father!
Oh hear these words anew in thy heart—Lk1:35 35 And the angel answered, and said to her, The Holy Ghost shall come from above into thee, and the virtue of the Highest shall overshadow thee; and therefore that holy thing that shall be born of thee, shall be called the Son of God.
Ok Andrew, I was hoping that you saw the light
Thanks for clearing that up.Mike,
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2012,02:22) Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 15 2012,01:42) Obviously I do not believe the pre-incarnate Christ was created but was the expression of the non-corporeal Father in a corporeal existence
Well then, your beliefs don't align with MANY scriptures. Would you like a list of those scriptures?Actually… yes I would
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2012,02:22) Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 15 2012,01:42) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) This Son was a powerful spiritual being, Is there a verse that states this?
Phil 2:6, John 17:5, John 6:38, etc.Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped
John 17:5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
These are the verses that prove your claim that the Son “was a powerful spiritual being”, but neither power, nor spirit, are even mentioned?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2012,02:22) Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 15 2012,01:42) Prior to being emptied everything the Father did in this world was done through this manifestation
Wm, compare your words above with your words below:Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 15 2012,01:42) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) And through this Son, God subsequently created all other things that exist. agreed
If you agree that all things were subsequently created through God's Son, then God's Son must have existed before those things were created through him. Do you suppose that what you call “the manifestation of God” is what I call “the Son of God”?More or less, the “manifestation of God” is a description (not a title), of the pre-incarnate Christ, who became the only begotten Son
My opinion – Wm
skt
Quote Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2012,02:22)
Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 15 2012,01:42)
Quote (mikeboll @ 64)
This Son was a powerful spiritual being,
Is there a verse that states this?Phil 2:6, John 17:5, John 6:38, etc.
Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be graspedJohn 17:5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Quote These are the verses that prove your claim that the Son “was a powerful spiritual being”, but neither power, nor spirit, are even mentioned? and you do not know what GLORY MEANS
AND YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT MEANS ; who, although He existed in the form of God,AND ; Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was;SO CHRIST ADD SOMETHING BEFORE THE WORLD WAS OR EXISTED
BUT YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THAT WHAT SCRIPTURES SAYS RIGHT AND; For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.;YOU KNOW BETTER RIGHT ,YOU ARE ABOVE CHRIST AND SO KNOW WHAT HE REALLY MEANT WHEN HE SAID THOSE WORDS
CAME DOWN BECAUSE HE WAS SEND FROM THE FATHER ,MEANS NOTHING WORT TO BELIEVE RIGHT WITCH ARE THE SCRIPTURES YOU BELIEVE AND SEPARATE THEM FROM THE ONES YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ,YOUR BIBLE SHOULD BE VERY THIN,
terraricca,
You judge me as not believing scripture please tell me which ones.You accuse me of twisting scripture please tell me which ones.
I believe all of scripture so please show me where I'm off, from scripture.
Form: The body or outward appearance of a person or an animal considered separately from the face or head; figure.
a. The essence of something.
b. The mode in which a thing exists, acts, or manifests itself; kind:Thanks – Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 18 2012,00:03) terraricca,
You judge me as not believing scripture please tell me which ones.You accuse me of twisting scripture please tell me which ones.
I believe all of scripture so please show me where I'm off, from scripture.
Form: The body or outward appearance of a person or an animal considered separately from the face or head; figure.
a. The essence of something.
b. The mode in which a thing exists, acts, or manifests itself; kind:Thanks – Wm
sktPhilippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped
John 17:5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
for a start ;
Quote I believe all of scripture so please show me where I'm off, from scripture. Quote a. The essence of something.
b. The mode in which a thing exists, acts, or manifests itself; kind:so a and b are subject to your interpretation ,right??
so you are a conditional believer
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 18 2012,02:35) Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 18 2012,00:03) terraricca,
You judge me as not believing scripture please tell me which ones.You accuse me of twisting scripture please tell me which ones.
I believe all of scripture so please show me where I'm off, from scripture.
Form: The body or outward appearance of a person or an animal considered separately from the face or head; figure.
a. The essence of something.
b. The mode in which a thing exists, acts, or manifests itself; kind:Thanks – Wm
sktPhilippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped
John 17:5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
for a start ;
How does what I've purposed conflict with these scriptures.
Quote Quote I believe all of scripture so please show me where I'm off, from scripture. Quote a. The essence of something.
b. The mode in which a thing exists, acts, or manifests itself; kind:so a and b are subject to your interpretation ,right??
That was the definition cut and pasted out of TheFreeDictionary.com
Quote so you are a conditional believer Your making a judgment of me without showing the evidence you've based it on, please show it to me
Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 18 2012,01:45) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 18 2012,02:35) Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 18 2012,00:03) terraricca,
You judge me as not believing scripture please tell me which ones.You accuse me of twisting scripture please tell me which ones.
I believe all of scripture so please show me where I'm off, from scripture.
Form: The body or outward appearance of a person or an animal considered separately from the face or head; figure.
a. The essence of something.
b. The mode in which a thing exists, acts, or manifests itself; kind:Thanks – Wm
sktPhilippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped
John 17:5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
for a start ;
How does what I've purposed conflict with these scriptures.
Quote Quote I believe all of scripture so please show me where I'm off, from scripture. Quote a. The essence of something.
b. The mode in which a thing exists, acts, or manifests itself; kind:so a and b are subject to your interpretation ,right??
That was the definition cut and pasted out of TheFreeDictionary.com
Quote so you are a conditional believer Your making a judgment of me without showing the evidence you've based it on, please show it to me
Wm
More or less, the “manifestation of God” is a description (not a title), of the pre-incarnate Christ, who became the only begotten Sonhis the above yours
yeswere did mike explain it wrong on the scripture i showed you
pre existence is not pre incarnated, to my understanding,
how his the Christ the only begotten son ,did the words that God says at his baptism were in the future or did he said “look this his my begotten son ,to day means what
was it that day ,the hour the minute, or did God talks about the day that he was supposed to come ???and would mean 3.5 years,do you believe that Christ pre existe his man like life
Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 18 2012,00:03) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 18 2012) More or less, the “manifestation of God” is a description (not a title), of the pre-incarnate Christ, who became the only begotten Son
his the above yours yesYES
Quote where did mike explain it wrong on the scripture i showed you Quote pre existence is not pre incarnated, to my understanding, Technically it fits and most people understand it, personally I don't care for it because of the false teaching of reincarnation.
Quote how his the Christ the only begotten son ,did the words that God says at his baptism were in the future or did he said “look this his my begotten son ,to day means what was it that day ,the hour the minute, or did God talks about the day that he was supposed to come ???and would mean 3.5 years,Are you referring to Matthew 3:17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “ This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”.
I believe He achieved only begotten status at conception
Quote do you believe that Christ pre existe his man like life If your saying did He pre-exist His conception… Yes
Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 18 2012,08:00) Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 18 2012,00:03) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 18 2012) More or less, the “manifestation of God” is a description (not a title), of the pre-incarnate Christ, who became the only begotten Son
his the above yours yesYES
Quote where did mike explain it wrong on the scripture i showed you Quote pre existence is not pre incarnated, to my understanding, Technically it fits and most people understand it, personally I don't care for it because of the false teaching of reincarnation.
Quote how his the Christ the only begotten son ,did the words that God says at his baptism were in the future or did he said “look this his my begotten son ,to day means what was it that day ,the hour the minute, or did God talks about the day that he was supposed to come ???and would mean 3.5 years,Are you referring to Matthew 3:17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “ This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”.
I believe He achieved only begotten status at conception
Quote do you believe that Christ pre existe his man like life If your saying did He pre-exist His conception… Yes
Wm
sktQuote (Mike says;Then, in the beginning, God created for Himself a Son.)
you say; Obviously I do not believe the pre-incarnate Christ was created but was the expression of the non-corporeal Father in a corporeal existenceQuote (Mike says ;This Son was a powerful spiritual being,)
you say;Is there a verse that states this?Quote (Mike says;Then, because God so loved the world and the humans He created through His Son,)
you say;”Then” I believe this was the plan from the foundations of the worldJn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.;
Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”where do you get the idea that God has a plan regarding the son creation of the son after or at the time of Herod the king in Jerusalem
and what was the reason for that plan
did Paul knew that plan
when he wrote ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.now all who were present when it was read to those congregations where people with the heavenly call (144k) just like him had,;Col 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,
Col 1:2 To the holy and faithful brothers in Christ at Colosse:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father.;
DO YOU THINK THAT ALL PRESENT WOULD BELIEVE WHAT HE WROTE DOWN IN COLOSSIANS AS IT WAS WRITTEN OR WOULD THEY HAVE TO USE INTERPRETATION AS YOU DO ???ALL KNEW PAUL WAS A DIRECT SPEAKER SAYS WHAT IS AND DID NOT TURN LEFT OR RIGHT TO PLEASE BUT GOD AND CHRIST BUT ABSOLUTELY NOT MEN .
1)He is the image of the invisible God,
2) the firstborn over all creation.
3)For by him all things were created
4)CREATED;things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities;
5) all things were created by him and for him.
6) all things have been created through Him and for Him.
7) He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
8)Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
9)Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.10)Col 1:26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints.
Col 1:27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.WHEN THE EXPRESSION IS SAID ” CHRIST IN YOU OR US IT MEANS THE HOPE OF GLORY OR THE HOPE TO EVERLASTING LIFE
SO PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU KNOW FOR SURE ;AND WHAT IS IT THAT YOU BELIEVE IS TRUE IN SCRIPTURES WITHOUT YOU CHANGE IT
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 16 2012,18:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2012,05:15) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 14 2012,14:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 12 2012,06:16) Do you agree that if God was truly EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME, then God would be everyone and everything, and everyone and everything would be God?
That is incorrect logic.
How so, Ed?If God is truly EVERYWHERE, then God makes up the atoms of which we are all formed. If God is our atoms, then God is us – therefore we are God.
Please explain how my logic is incorrect.
Saying 'God is our atoms' is yet another incorrect logic assumption.
If a raft it on the Ocean – is the raft part of the ocean?
Ed,If God was truly EVERYWHERE, He would not only be the ocean, but the raft on it and the fish in it – not to mention the land and the air surrounding it. Oh, and the birds flying around in that air too.
Ed, the being of Mikeboll64 takes up a minute amount of space in this universe. Now, do I take up this space? Or does God? If God is truly EVERYWHERE, then God takes up the space that is occupied by the being Mikeboll64. And if that is the case, God IS Mikeboll64 and Mikeboll64 IS God.
Ed, if there is nothing separating where God exists from where He doesn't, then He exists EVERYWHERE – including within the space that Mikeboll64 takes up. And if God exists in the space Mikeboll64 takes up, then God is my atoms, my cells, my bones, my flesh, etc. If God is all these things, then there is no distinction between what is God and what is Mikeboll64.
Are you starting to grasp this yet?
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 17 2012,01:38) Mike,
Do you bow down to a theos when you bow down to Jesus?
I don't bow down to Jesus. There will be a time and a place where all will bow to him, me included.But Jesus called those to whom the word of God came “gods”, right Kathi?
David was one of those, right? So David was called a god in scripture, and he was also bowed before in scripture, right?
So take that in before you hit me with the “thou shalt not bow before any other god” scripture.
Kathi, Jesus told us the ONE to whom we should give our worship………… and it wasn't him. Instead, it was the same One HE worshiped.
Also, do you acknowledge that you can't make a SOLID claim of “God-worship” to Jesus just from the Greek word “proskuneo”, and that any claims of such from you or others is only wishful thinking that can't possibly be proved from scripture?
Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 17 2012,04:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2012,02:22) Well then, your beliefs don't align with MANY scriptures. Would you like a list of those scriptures? Actually… yes I would
Here's the first of many:
Acts 4
24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”
Wm, in verse 24, it is clear that the One being prayed to is the ONE who “made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them”, right?
Now, compare that verse with verse 30. Is Jesus the ONE who made all these things, or the holy servant OF that ONE?
Obviously, Jesus is the holy servant OF that ONE, right? And if Jesus is someone OTHER THAN the ONE who “made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them”, then he has no choice but to be a part of the “everything in them” that was made BY that ONE, right?
(Many more available upon request)
Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 17 2012,04:15) Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped John 17:5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
These are the verses that prove your claim that the Son “was a powerful spiritual being”, but neither power, nor spirit, are even mentioned?
I am using my God-given common sense here, Wm. We know from scripture that God is a spirit. If Jesus was existing in the form of God, then he was existing as a spirit being like his God.We also know that flesh cannot inherit God's Kingdom, and that spirit beings don't have flesh, right? If Jesus had glory alongside his God before the world began, then we can assume he was a part of God's heavenly Kingdom, right? So he couldn't have been a FLESH being at that time, and therefore must have been a spirit being.
The same goes for 6:38. He was existing in some form before coming down from heaven to do the will of his Father. If that form can't be flesh, then what other choice do we have?
Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 17 2012,04:15) More or less, the “manifestation of God” is a description (not a title), of the pre-incarnate Christ, who became the only begotten Son
Okay, that's what I thought you were saying. But do you realize your understanding calls for something that WAS God becoming someone who ISN'T God anymore?How do you reconcile that thought with the scriptures that say God is immutable? And WHEN, in your opinion, did this “manifestation of God” become the Son of God?
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