The Creations of Genesis 1 & 2 and John 1

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

Deut 14.1

You are the children of the Lord, Your God: ye shall not cut yourselves,

nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Nick

 

You: I think it is easier to follow a man just like us, tempted in every way we are, but obedient to the Law and because he was clean he was anointed from above at the Jordan with the Holy Spirit.
You offer a godman with no human spirit.
He was conceived of Mary and got half his heredity from sinful man.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

In the end, there is only one life force, the holy spirit (Eph 4:4).

He was born both of the seed of David directly and the egg of Mary.  Christ by passed the heredity process as his conception was made of the genes of both parents in a supernatural process.  Christ said God could turn stones into children of Abraham.  He did not need to go through heredity.  If he had, Christ would have had death and thus sin in his flesh.  He was the second Adam.

I wish not to discuss this matter further on this thread as it is a distraction  I will put it back on The firstborn….

[Truthcomber]

Hi Nick,

You: I think it is easier to follow a man just like us, tempted in every way we are, but obedient to the Law and because he was clean he was anointed from above at the Jordan with the Holy Spirit.
You offer a godman with no human spirit.
He was conceived of Mary and got half his heredity from sinful man.

Me: 
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
In the end, there is only one life force, the holy spirit (Eph 4:4).
He was born both of the seed of David (Romans 1:3) directly and the egg of Mary. Christ by passed the heredity process as his conception was made of the genes of both parents in a supernatural process. Christ said God could turn stones into children of Abraham. He did not need to go through heredity. If he had, Christ would have had death and thus sin in his flesh. He was the second Adam.

 

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

Like most you want to find a way to give this man a head start making it more difficult for mere humanity.

It was the Jordan anointing that gave this amazing overcomer (rev 3.21) his power and authority.

Indeed all share in the one Spirit in the end, not the one that left Jesus at his death.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

Young’s Literal Translation
John 1:14 And the Word became (G1096) flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.

Definition (G1096): come into being, am born, become, come about, happen.

2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ,…

Comment: So how do we reconcile the above scriptures? What does only begotten mean in John 1:14? God’s saints and his prophets were born also (begotten) of the holy spirit.

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Comment: This means that the Messiah had to have been begotten of the holy spirit at birth and was the son of God (first) of many sons of God. Christians become sons of God through Christ. No human was called the spiritual son of God before Christ. Christ was also the only human born with no sin that was also born of the spirit. His mother Mary knew no man. Therefore, the Messiah was born directly of the seed of David in his mother’s womb, and thus no death and sin was passed on to him. So, he was the only unique or begotten son of God. We become one with him through the baptism of the holy spirit and thus are sons of God.

Matt 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Comment: The spirit of God became one with the human mind and heart (flesh) of Christ at his birth. Thus “the Word became flesh”, or one with flesh through the holy spirit. We, on the other hand,  become one with Christ though the holy spirit.

Young Literal Translation:
John 7:39 and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Comment: Notice that the spirit of God was “not yet” and not “not yet given”. Given is an added word.

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Comment: The holy spirit was given by the Messiah after his resurrection before his ascension and glorification into heaven.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; …
Comment: The promise of the holy spirit was the Messiah’s heart and mind bonded with God’s heart mind and the holy spirit from God’s mind bonded with the Messiah’s mind.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Comment: All of our minds united by one spirit.

Ezk 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.(of the Messiah) 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Emphasis in the parenthesis is mine. 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Nick,

You: 

Like most you want to find a way to give this man a head start making it more difficult for mere humanity.
It was the Jordan anointing that gave this amazing overcomer (rev 3.21) his power and authority.
Indeed all share in the one Spirit in the end, not the one that left Jesus at his death.

Me: You seem not to be able to grasp what it means to be the son of God.  Christ was a direct expression of God Almighty.  Like men have their own bodies, God had his. God is spirit (John 4:24).  God gives every spirit, including himself  his own body (1 Cor 15:38).    The body that God created for himself was the Messiah. That body includes a human heart and mind.

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

John 14:7  If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8  Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Me: Christ was not the eternal God Almighty, but was the son of God that God revealed himself  to us as.

Psalm 8:5 ASV For thou hast made him but little lower than God, And crownest him with glory and honor.
RSV Yet thou hast made him little less than God, and dost crown him with glory and honor.

 

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

No need for carnal inference.

The Word was made flesh at the Jordan.

A clean vessel was found and filled with the Holy Spirit

[Truthcomber]

Hi Nick,

Also, all horses have features

[Truthcomber]

and feathers

[Truthcomber]

http://www.amatteroftruth.com/does-john-1-15-prove-jesus-preexisted

John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before (G4413) me…27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred (G4413) before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose…30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before (G4413) me.

http://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/1-15.htm
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/1-30.htm

Emphasis in parenthesis is mine

Comment: “For he is before me” should have been translated as he is a higher rank than me “ (4413).

Therefore with the corrections:

John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was of higher rank than me. 27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred (G4413) before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose…30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was of higher rand than me.

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

 

John 1:18 No (one) hath seen God at any time; the only begotten (from the dead) Son, which “is” in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3:13 (a) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, (b) but he that came down from heaven, (c) even the Son of man which “is” in heaven. 14 (d) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

All emphasis in the parenthesis are mine.

Comment a, b, c, and d were all foreordained: In the mind of God, the result of the Messiah being born, crucified, resurrected and glorified had already happened in the mind of God from eternity. In his mind, his son always existed with him in a glorified state (notice “is” in John 1:18 and John 3:13c), even when Christ was here on earth. The Messiah was in heaven as the glorified Christ in the bosom of our heavenly father. Christ knew that (John 17:5). Both (a)and (d) go together: in our reality, Christ had not yet ascended into heaven and had not been glorified (another definition of ascended) when the Messiah was here on earth. Now (b) in God’s mind says that Christ, a man, had already ascended into heaven And (c) states that Christ is in heaven because he had already ascended into heaven (b).

Rev 13:8  …Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Me: Christ did not pre-exist in our reality.  He was in the bosom of God from eternity as if he had existed from eternity.

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

 

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Comment: “ascend” into heaven also means to raise to the level of being like God. Lucifer tried it.

So Christ was glorified as the son of God after he “ascended” into heaven and never before that.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.[

Comment: You will notice their is a gap between “before the world was” in John 17:5 and the time he was resurrected and ascended into heaven. What happened to the Messiah’s glory in the interim. That could have been billions of years. Well, the Messiah was also crucified before the world was. And he also had a ascended into heaven (John 3:13 c in above post) and was glorified (John 17:5). All this was real in the mind of God–before the physical earth and before Christ existed at all in our reality in this age.

Romans 4:17 ….and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Comment: The point being that Christ was not in existence in our reality until he was conceived and born about 2000 years ago, not before. He is not eternal like his heavenly father is.

Young’s Literal Translation

John 1:18 God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father — he did declare (or send)

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God in us, because His Son — the only begotten — hath God sent to the world, that we may live through him;

The Trinitarian based interpreters “conveniently forgot” to include “only begotten” in their translations of 1 Joh 4:9. This is confirmed in Strong’s rendering of this verse in original Greek in the link below.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_john/4-9.htm

So God sent his son from his bosom or impression he had in his mind to be begotten of the genes of David and the holy spirit in the womb of his mother.

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

Some  say that Christ was both of the seed of David according to the flesh and was God made flesh at the same time. I don’t think so. I really don’t. If God was made into a fleshly man, why would he need to grow in the spirit? Why would he need to grow in the flesh? He would have been God all at once in the flesh and spirit.

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

 

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see (3708. horaó: percieve) my day (2250: the day Christ will return from heaven): and he saw  (3708. horaó: percieve) it and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth…16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city

 

Me: Click on the link below. Then click on 2250 above day. Also afterwards click on 3708 above “he should see and “he saw”.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/8-56.htm

2250. hémera3. of the lust day of the present age (see αἰών, 3), the day in which Christ will return from heaven, raise the dead, hold the final judgment, and perfect his kingdom, the following expressions are used: ἡ ἡμέρα, simply, Romans 13:12; Hebrews 10:25, cf. 1 Thessalonians 5:4;

3708. horaó: I see, look upon, experience, perceive, discern, beware.

Me: Abraham rejoiced to see the Messiah’s day (when Christ returns to earth) in the future. This is when he would see salvation.

 

Verse 58 … Before Abraham was, I am.

Me:

Again, click on the link below:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/8-58.htm

Click above on 1096 above “was”.

1096. ginomai I come into being, am born, become, come about, happen.

Me: John 8:58 is looking into the future from the point when Christ was speaking. Before Abraham is resurrected from the dead, Christ will be the first to resurrect from the dead as in Col 1:18 below. Christ, like God in him, is looking at this event as though it has already happened (Rom 4:17). So in the future from when Christ was speaking, Christ is the firstborn of the dead and then Abraham and the rest of the OT saints.

Col 1:15 (NASB) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 (KJV) For by (1722. en: in) him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by (1223: on account of) him, and for him:
2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in (1722, en: in ):Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Me: God, who was in Christ created all things on account of Christ.

Verse 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Me: Christ is the first born of the new creation (Col 1:15, 18 above).

So before Abraham is born of the coming resurrection, Christ will be the first born of the dead.

The Jews interpreted the words of Christ to mean that he was saying that he existed prior to when Abraham existed in the OT, but I believe that Christ was speaking of the future resurrection when Christ would be the first to rise from the dead and then all those saints that died before Christ’s resurrection and ascension into heaven. They then would be baptized with the holy spirit with the mind and heart of Christ in it and thus resurrected spiritually from the dead (John 5:25). They would obtain new bodies at Christ’s return to earth.

Note: All in the parenthesis are my emphasis

[Truthcomber]

The above is just one more reason that I believe that Christ was not eternal except in the mind of God as if he had existed from eternity.  For at what point in eternity can you start from and call it the beginning?   You can’t.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Yesterday, (5504. chthes) means yesterday, a point in time.  It does not mean eternal.

 

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/13-8.htm

 

[Truthcomber]

He All,

Hi All,

1 Tim 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he (Christ) shall shew, who (our heavenly father) is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who (our heavenly father below in 1 Cor 15:28) only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1 Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Me: 1 Cor 15:28 corresponds with 1 Tim 6:13. Only our heavenly father has immortality. Immortality means no beginning and no end. Only the father had no beginning.

All comments in the parentheses are mine.

[GeneBalthrop]

TC….very good posts brother.

Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

[Truthcomber]

Thank You…Let God be with all of us granting understanding.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Anthony:
You: Hi truthcomber I just don’t believe that Jesus Christ come back to earth where He was created. I don’t believe that Jesus was created. God bless.

Me:
I will transfer this question to the thread where it is more appropriate forum:
The Creations of Genesis 1 & 2 and John 1
Please initiate your evidence. We can go verse by verse.

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

 

1 Tim 3:13 (KJV) For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Me: Click on the link below. Then click on ‘3739” there is no word “God” there as a definition like there is in the king James version above. Thus, Verse 16 is referring its antecedent in verse 13, the Messiah, and not to God Almighty.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_timothy/3-16.htm

1 Tim 3:13 (NASB) For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus…16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who (Christ) was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

Emphasis in the parenthesis is mine.

John 3: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

A good article on this:

1 Timothy 3:16

 

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