The Beast Revelation

[terraricca]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 16 2011,15:37)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2011,06:31) Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 15 2011,13:22) terraricca,Aug. wrote: georg Quote Thank you for the greetings, how about taking on these questions? Georg what you think it means ?that some have crowns and some do not,? horns means i believe ruling kings , Pierre Yes, a horn symbolizes power, ruler or king. A crown symbolizes power to rule. So why are there seven crowns on the one beast; ten crowns on the second, and no crowns on the third? All three beasts have seven heads, and ten horns. Georg Georg I got a question how many hornes are on the seventh head ? since it says that they are ten horns, Pierre Pierre What most people don't realize is, when the bible speaks of “ten”, it does not mean ten individuals; like the ten commandments. We know that Moses cam down from the mountain with two tables, and the “TEN” commandments, but have you ever noticed that the two tables were written on both sides? Exd 32:15 ¶ And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.   In fact the entire book of Leviticus was on those tables. Lev 27:34 ¶ These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.   What I'm trying to show you is, ten is the number of completion, or all included. So the “TEN” horns on the three beats refer to all the kings and emperor of the individual empires. The seventh head was the “League of Nation”, the ten horns refer to all the members of that government at that time. Georg

Georg

if you counting the heads and check it with the book of Daniel and see what it says about the beast (powers) like Egypt one horn,next one horns,next Babylonia one horn,next Medea and Persia two horns next Greek one horn,Rome one horn in this count it leaves tree horns for the seventh head,so the seventh head could be a tree level power,

Pierre

[Pastry]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 16 2011,09:49)

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 16 2011,15:37) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2011,06:31) Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 15 2011,13:22) terraricca,Aug. wrote: georg Quote Thank you for the greetings, how about taking on these questions? Georg what you think it means ?that some have crowns and some do not,? horns means i believe ruling kings , Pierre Yes, a horn symbolizes power, ruler or king. A crown symbolizes power to rule. So why are there seven crowns on the one beast; ten crowns on the second, and no crowns on the third? All three beasts have seven heads, and ten horns. Georg Georg I got a question how many hornes are on the seventh head ? since it says that they are ten horns, Pierre Pierre What most people don't realize is, when the bible speaks of “ten”, it does not mean ten individuals; like the ten commandments. We know that Moses cam down from the mountain with two tables, and the “TEN” commandments, but have you ever noticed that the two tables were written on both sides? Exd 32:15 ¶ And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.   In fact the entire book of Leviticus was on those tables. Lev 27:34 ¶ These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.   What I'm trying to show you is, ten is the number of completion, or all included. So the “TEN” horns on the three beats refer to all the kings and emperor of the individual empires. The seventh head was the “League of Nation”, the ten horns refer to all the members of that government at that time. Georg Georg if you counting the heads and check it with the book of Daniel and see what it says about the beast (powers) like Egypt one horn,next one horns,next Babylonia one horn,next Medea and Persia two horns  next Greek one horn,Rome one horn in this count it leaves tree horns for the seventh head,so the seventh head could be a tree level power, Pierre

Where do you read THAT in your Bible?
I mean about the horns.

Georg

[terraricca]

georg

Da 8:19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end.
Da 8:20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia.
Da 8:21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between his eyes is the first king.
Da 8:22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.
Da 8:23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise.
Da 8:24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people.

based on this scriptures it should be that Babylon was one horn because it ad only one ruler,and so did Egypt,and next power one horn

then that leaves Rome with one ruler so one horn =7 horns and so 3 left for the seventh head of the beast with seven heads and 10 horns,

we know that the beast in revelation 12 represent the earthly powers right?

Pierre

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2011,12:31)

Quote (michael777 @ Aug. 02 2011,19:01) There were people living on the Earth when they were put into the garden. This is how Cain could go out and find a wife. He married someone who was not of the Jewish lineage, or those of the sixth day creation. Hi Michael, I have pondered this myself hard and long.  I have been scoffed at and reminded that Adam is said to be the first man ever, and that Eve is the mother of all living. But it never set well with me that when Cain was banished, he was afraid that “others” would kill him; and so God put a sign on him so the “others” wouldn't bother him. WHO WERE THESE “OTHERS”?   You have pointed out that he obtained a wife from somewhere.  So that's the second thing I've wondered about.   People are quick to point out that not every child of Adam and Eve were mentioned by name, so they may have had hundreds of children by the time Cain murdered Abel.  But WHY were these already living in the land of Nod (Wandering), since it seemed a bad punishment for Cain to be sent to that place? And how does that add up to Eve saying this in 4:25: “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.” That seems to me an odd statement if the couple already had hundreds of unmentioned children. And I've wondered why the story of man's creation is told once in Genesis 1, and then again, mentioning Adam and Eve, in Genesis 2. I'll let you in on a secret:  I've always thought in my own mind that these “men” created on the sixth day were more like the cavemen of old.  And Adam represented the first man in which God placed His own Spirit. Should we move this to another thread, since it's off-topic here? mike

Yes move that to another thread. That would be an interesting discussion if the right questions were asked and the right people responded.

[mikeboll64]

Thanks for your interest t8. I will do just that when I get the time. And I hope you will join in with your thoughts on the matter.

[Pastry]

Pierre

Da 8:19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end.
Da 8:20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia.

These scriptures tell you who the kings are, Media, and Persia; although they are represented in the seven heads of the beasts in Rev., the horns on the ram and the goat have nothing to do with the ten horn of the beasts in Rev.

Da 8:21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between his eyes is the first king.

This large horn represents Alexander the Great, the first king/emperor of Greece.

Da 8:22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.

When Alexander died in 223 BC, his empire was divided between his four generals, into four kingdoms;
Macedonia; Asia Minor; Syria, and Egypt; that's who the four horns represent; again, they have nothing to do with the horns on the beasts in Rev..

Da 8:23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise.
Da 8:24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people.

When Rome collapsed, at least the western leg of it, the pope took over the reign of what used to be the western part of the empire.
This happened in 565 AD, after Justinian died; the last emperor of the east and the west.
The pope is the little “horn” you read about in Dan. 7:8.
He is the Antichrist; the beast out of the earth; the lamb with two horns, but spoke like the dragon/devil.
He did become very strong and powerful, he ruled over kings, and the holy people, the saints.
He persecuted, tortured, and killed them, because they would not worship him.

“””we know that the beast in revelation 12 represent the earthly powers  right?”””

The seven heads on this beast represent the seven empires/world ruling governments of the Bible; as do the other two seven headed beasts in Rev.
Notice, there are “seven crown”, one for each empire.
There are “TEN” horns; as I explained previously, ten means “ALL” included; they are “ALL” the kings and emperors, “RULERS” , of all seven empires.
The fact that these empires are on the “DRAGON-SATAN the DEVIL”, shows that he is the power behind all worldly kingdoms, as you read ion Rev. 13:2.

Georg

[terraricca]

georg

so those verse ;;Da 8:23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise.
Da 8:24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people.

are describing ROME ,right ?

Pierre

[Pastry]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2011,02:43)

georg so those verse ;;Da 8:23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise. Da 8:24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people. are describing ROME ,right ? Pierre

NO

Georg

[terraricca]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 19 2011,14:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2011,02:43) georg so those verse ;;Da 8:23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise. Da 8:24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people. are describing ROME ,right ? Pierre NO Georg

georg

who is it then??

Pierre

[Pastry]

Pierre

You obviously pay little attention what scripture says, and no attention to what I say.

“””Da 8:24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power.”””

If Rome did not become strong by their own power, military power, then how did they become strong?
So how can this scripture refer to Rome?

Why don't you read what I posted?

Georg

[terraricca]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 19 2011,17:50)

Pierre You obviously pay little attention what scripture says, and no attention to what I say. “””Da 8:24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power.””” If Rome did not become strong by their own power, military power, then how did they become strong? So how can this scripture refer to Rome? Why don't you read what I posted? Georg

georg

i am confused you say that it is not ROME now you say it is Rome

when is Rome started ?

when did Rome;;1) will destroy the mighty men and;;2) the holy people.

Pierre

[Pastry]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 17 2011,22:09)

Pierre Da 8:19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. Da 8:20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. These scriptures tell you who the kings are, Media, and Persia; although they are represented in the seven heads of the beasts in Rev., the horns on the ram and the goat have nothing to do with the ten horn of the beasts in Rev. Da 8:21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between his eyes is the first king. This large horn represents Alexander the Great, the first king/emperor of Greece. Da 8:22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power. When Alexander died in 223 BC, his empire was divided between his four generals, into four kingdoms; Macedonia; Asia Minor; Syria, and Egypt; that's who the four horns represent; again, they have nothing to do with the horns on the beasts in Rev.. Da 8:23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise. Da 8:24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people. When Rome collapsed, at least the western leg of it, the pope took over the reign of what used to be the western part of the empire. This happened in 565 AD, after Justinian died; the last emperor of the east and the west. The pope is the little “horn” you read about in Dan. 7:8. He is the Antichrist; the beast out of the earth; the lamb with two horns, but spoke like the dragon/devil. He did become very strong and powerful, he ruled over kings, and the holy people, the saints. He persecuted, tortured, and killed them, because they would not worship him. “””we know that the beast in revelation 12 represent the earthly powers  right?””” The seven heads on this beast represent the seven empires/world ruling governments of the Bible; as do the other two seven headed beasts in Rev. Notice, there are “seven crown”, one for each empire. There are “TEN” horns; as I explained previously, ten means “ALL” included; they are “ALL” the kings and emperors, “RULERS” , of all seven empires. The fact that these empires are on the “DRAGON-SATAN the DEVIL”, shows that he is the power behind all worldly kingdoms, as you read ion Rev. 13:2. Georg

Pierre, read this again; I mean, READ IT!

Georg

[terraricca]

georg

i have read it ;

now question ;And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, ‘Get up and eat your fill of flesh!’
Da 7:6 “After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule.
Da 7:7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.
Da 7:8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth that spoke boastfully.
Da 7:9 “As I looked,
“thrones were set in place,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.

NOW MY QUESTION ;WHEN ARE THE FALLOWING EVENTS TOOK PLACE ;Da 7:20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully.
Da 7:21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them,
Da 7:22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.

AND WHO ARE THE FOUR KINGDOMS?

first beast ;= Medea and Persia the second beast ;=Greece the third beast ; Rome and the fourth beast ; ?

Pierre

[Pastry]

Pierre

You overlooked the first beast.

Dan 7:4   The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.  

The Lion was Babylon; is the “FIRST” beast.

Dan 7:5   And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.  

This Bear was the Medo-Persians; is the “SECOND” beast.

Dan 7:6   After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.  

This Leopard was the Greeks; is the “THIRD” beast.

Dan 7:7   After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.  

This beast was Rome; is the “FOURTH” beast. The “TEN” (ALL) horns, were “ALL” the kings and emperors of Rome.

The “little” horn, Dan 7:8, is the Pope, as already explained in my post above.

The three horns that were uprooted were the three Barbarian kingdoms that conquered and ruled parts of Rome for awhile.

The Vandals conquered Carthage North Africa.
The Heruli took over Rome and Italy.  
The Ostrogoth defeated the Heruli, and then took over Rome and Italy themselves.

Be sure to read the post above again, from your question I can tell you are not very observant.
The question I have is; do you really want to know?

Georg

[terraricca]

georg

Da 7:17 ‘The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth.

Daniel is in Babylon when he received the vision right and it happen in the first year ; Da 7:1 In the first year(about 70 years after captivity) of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying on his bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream.

this is what i do not understand ,Babylon has been already a world power ,(statue golden head)

so the four beast are coming after Babylon
see Babylon + 4 beast made 5 powers ,

Da 2:35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were broken to pieces at the same time and became like chaff;

iron+clay +bronze +silver +gold = also five

so forgive me of not be so observant as you are.

so my question remains ;first beast ;= Medea and Persia  the second beast ;=Greece  the third beast ; Rome   and the fourth beast ; ?

this count will also match the seven heads of the beast in revelation Egypt+ Syria +Babylon + four beast in Daniel;=7
or Egypt +Syria + the five power of the statue;= 7

Georg I have carefully read and understood what you are saying but what i do not understand is why so much is missing and so my question want a answer.

Pierre

[Pastry]

Pierre

What you have come up with is not only scriptural incorrect, but historically wrong also.

Two years into their captivity, 604 BC, the king had a dream; the statue, and Daniel interpret the dream for the king. he tells the king he is the head of gold.

Dan 2:38   And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.  

Pay attention, “”BABYLON”” is the head of gold. Then 53 years later, Daniel has a dream.

Dan 7:1 ¶ In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.    

The “FIRST” year of king Belshazzar, KING OF BABYLON, 553 BC.
Judah was captured in 606 BC, 553 was only 53 years into their captivity.

Dan 7:2   Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.  

The “great sea” is an allegory for “all the kingdoms”, from which Babylon rose up stronger then the rest.

Dan 7:3   And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Now, if you don't know that the Lion represents Babylon, then I suggest you check your history first before continuing.

Just as the “head of gold”, the “Lion” represents Babylon.
Just as the “chest and arms of silver”, the “Bear” represents Medo-Persia.
Just as the “belly and thighs of bronze”, the “Leopard” represents Greece.
Just as the “two legs of iron”, EAST and WEST, the fourth beast represents ROME.

Dan 7:7   After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.  

The Bible tells you exactly who the four beast were, why do you try to change that???
You get this straight in your head first, then we talk about the “seven heads” of Revelation.

Georg

[shimmer]

Sorry to interupt. Its just I read this with the Adventists once, it seems a bit similar, so heres how they see it… and i'll leave you to it:

ADVENTIST INTERPRETATIONS OF DANIEL

 DANIEL 2
• The 4 metals of the image (gold, silver, brass, iron) represents the 4 world kingdoms (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome.)
• The feet and toes of iron and clay represents the 10 divisions or kingdoms of Europe.  
• The stone cut out of the mountain without hands represents the second advent of Christ.  
• The stone which grew into a great mountain represents God's eternal kingdom

    DANIEL 7

• The first beast, being a 2-winged lion, represented Babylon.
• The second beast, being a bear, represented Medo-Persia.
• The third beast, being a 4 winged leopard, represented Greece.
• The fourth beast, being dreadful and terrible, represented pagan Rome.
• The 10 horns on the fourth beast represents the 10 divisions/kingdoms of Europe.
• The 3 horns uprooted represented the Heruli, Vandals, and the Ostrogoths.
• The little horn represented the Papacy.
• The 3 1/2 times represented 1260 years of Papal supremacy – from 538-1798 AD.
• The final scenes represents the judgment which began October 22, 1844.

    DANIEL 8

• The 2-horned ram represented Medo-Persia.
• The he goat represented Greece.
• The great notable horn represented Alexander the Great.
• The 4 notable horns represented the 4 generals who each ruled 1/4 of the Grecian Empire after Alexander's death.
• The little horn waxing exceeding great represented papal Rome.
• The daily represented paganism.
• The 2300 days represented 2300 years – from 457 BC – 1844 AD.

    DANIEL 9

• The 70 weeks were “cut off” from the first part of the 2300 years.
• The 70 weeks represented 490 years – from 457 BC – 34 AD.
• The 70th or last week represented 7 years – from 27-34 AD.
• In 27 AD Jesus Christ was anointed as Messiah the Prince.
• In the midst of this last week Christ was crucified in 31 AD, which brought to an end all sacrificial, ceremonial, and feast rituals and types connected with the earthly sanctuary.
• In 34 AD Stephen was stoned which ended this 70 week prophecy.

    DANIEL 11

• The scope of this prophecy covered the histories of Persia, Greece, and Rome in both pagan and papal forms.
• The willful king represented the Papacy.
• Ellen White indicated that most of Daniel 11 was already history (see Manuscript Releases, vol 13, p 394 – Letter 103, 1904), and that it “has nearly reached its complete fulfillment” (Testimonies, vol 9, p 14).

    DANIEL 12

• The 3 1/2 times represented 1260 years of Papal persecution – from 538-1798 AD.
• The 1290 days represented 1290 years – from 508-1798 AD.

http://www.sdrvoice.org/pillars.htm

[Pastry]

shimmer

Most of it is correct.

Georg

[shimmer]

Hi Georg. They seem to have more knowledge than I do.
Ok, leave you to it.

[terraricca]

Georg

Da 7:3 Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.(came up all four did not say one his)

Da 7:17 ‘The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth.(four kingdoms that WILL rise ,not one his and tree will rise)

sorry about the year of the dream ;

so is not make thing go the way you want them to go ?

Pierre

[Author]

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