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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2010,07:36) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 22 2010,15:23) Hi WJ, To the Glory of the Father Jesus is my savior, for I know that he was indeed the man of the Father's foreordained plan where before time began the Father promised us eternal life in a human anointed with His Spirit.
How's that WJ?
So Jesus does not get any credit or glory for giving his own blood and life for you?So you have two “Two Savours”!
Arians
- Two Savours
- Two Masters
- Two Lords
WJ
Jesus gets credit for BEING the man who died on the cross for me. Jesus does not get credit for being the One True God.1 Cor 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Jesus gets credit for being the man who was MADE INTO a master. He does not get credit for being the One True God.
I follow Jesus because the One True God made him for us to follow. YHWH made for us a perfect human example.
Our Heavenly Father wants us to believe in the NAME of Jesus, because He wants us to believe that what He did for Jesus He has promised to do for us. The whole point of believing in Jesus is that we believe in the work of the Father's Spirit IN MAN.
Our Heavenly Father brought the law to prove to us that we of our own selves cannot accomplish righteousness and immortality. Our Heavenly Father brought forth the man Jesus and anointed him with His Spirit to prove to us that it is the Father's Spirit ALONE that makes man righteous and brings forth eternal life.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2010,16:24) WJ you should be happy you guys have 3 saviors in 1.
My view is not contradictory to scriptures!God is a “Plural Unity”…
And God said, Let us make man “in our image“, after “our likeness“…:So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1:26, 27
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One with one Name! Matt 28:19
WJ
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 22 2010,16:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2010,07:36) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 22 2010,15:23) Hi WJ, To the Glory of the Father Jesus is my savior, for I know that he was indeed the man of the Father's foreordained plan where before time began the Father promised us eternal life in a human anointed with His Spirit.
How's that WJ?
So Jesus does not get any credit or glory for giving his own blood and life for you?So you have two “Two Savours”!
Arians
- Two Savours
- Two Masters
- Two Lords
WJ
Jesus gets credit for BEING the man who died on the cross for me. Jesus does not get credit for being the One True God.1 Cor 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Jesus gets credit for being the man who was MADE INTO a master. He does not get credit for being the One True God.
I follow Jesus because the One True God made him for us to follow. YHWH made for us a perfect human example.
Our Heavenly Father wants us to believe in the NAME of Jesus, because He wants us to believe that what He did for Jesus He has promised to do for us. The whole point of believing in Jesus is that we believe in the work of the Father's Spirit IN MAN.
Our Heavenly Father brought the law to prove to us that we of our own selves cannot accomplish righteousness and immortality. Our Heavenly Father brought forth the man Jesus and anointed him with His Spirit to prove to us that it is the Father's Spirit ALONE that makes man righteous and brings forth eternal life.
So you have 2 Savours and 2 Lords and 2 Masters?WJ
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 23 2010,07:09) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 23 2010,06:08) Yesterday Jodi Lee said: Quote Jesus is our savior ONLY because he followed in the Will and the plan of the Father. But today she says:
Quote Jesus is NOT that Savior he is the son of that Savior carrying out that Savior's plans. TO ALL:
There you have it. When the anti-trinitarian is pushed he or she always ends up denying that Jesus is our Savior.
Yesterday Jodi confessed that Jesus is our “only” Savior. But today she shows her true ANTI-CHRISTIAN colors! She said, “He is not that Savior.”
Jodi accused WJ for “disregard of ALL the substance of scripture.” But she does the exact same thing. The “substance” of scripture declares that Jesus HIMSELF is the propitiation for our sins and that He is the SOURCE of eternal salvation.
The apostle John said that Jesus HIMSELF is the propitiation for our sins:
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He HIMSELF is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
This is clear! Jesus is no Savior by proxy. He HIMSELF is the propitiation for our sins.
Hebrews says that Jesus is the SOURCE of eternal salvation:
And being made perfect, he became the SOURCE of eternal salvation to all who obey him, Hebrews 5:9, ESV
Jodi Lee herself disregards “ALL the substance of scripture!”
thinker
Thinker you are truly twisting what I have said.First and foremost it should be apparent that I indeed believe that Jesus was the human being anointed with the Spirit of the Father, and that Jesus went against his OWN will and died on the cross for the sake of following his Father's will. I firmly believe that the anointed human being brought forth the gift of eternal life through the plan and will of the Father.
As well, it should be apparent from my post that when I said that Jesus is “NOT THAT Savior”, I would not be referring to Jesus as not being the man who died on the cross, I would be referring to Jesus as NOT being the person who CREATED the MAN who died on the cross, nor is he the person who CREATED the plan of salvation, nor is he the person who held the Power to carry out that plan. NO Jesus is NOT the Father, of whom is said to be the One True God and the Savior as no one else is. Jesus is not the son of himself!
1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
I believe in and follow in the clear distinction MADE between the Father and the Son, and the INDIVIDUAL roles they played in bringing salvation…….
……and one is to the GLORY of the other!!
Yakkety yak and gobbledygook! You're speaking outide outside of both sides of your mouth. Jesus is the Savior in His own right. If He is the Savior in His own right then He is God because God said, “Besides me there is no Savior” (Is. 43:11).Jesus is indeed “that Savior.” I have already given you the scripture which says that he HIMSELF is the propitiation for our sins and that He Himself is the SOURCE of our salvation.
The opening post to this thread gives Revelation 5:13 which says that ALL creation gives the Lamb EQUAL worship with the Father.
but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. 2 Peter 3:18-19and,
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be Savior of the world. 1 John 4:14
Peter said that Jesus Christ is the Lord and savior and that He is to receive THE GLORY both now and forever. John said that the Father sent the Son TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD.
thinker
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2010,08:24) WJ you should be happy you guys have 3 saviors in 1.
t,Send me a private message and give me a mailing address. I want to send you that case of “White Out” so you can paint over the scriptures you don't like.
thinker
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2010,08:22) j Lee you are right TT is on a fishing trip again,looking for a fish.
the trinitarian, are living in a lie ,in there hearth they want to share it with all of us,they can not understand that we do not WANTED.
God the father is our savior,because nothing gets done under the sky that he do not know and authorizes,Christ is our savior because he put up his live to accomplish that plan of his father to save men,and Jesus is the right harm of God the father.so Jesus is not God.
t,
He HIMSELF is the propitiation for our sins 1 John 2:1
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. 1 John 4:14
The case of “White Out” is on its way.
thinker
terraricca said:
Quote God the father is our savior,because nothing gets done under the sky that he do not know and authorizes Christ has ALL authority now:
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Matt. 28:18
All things have been delivered into Jesus' hands and Jesus reveals the Father to whomsoever HE WILLS:
All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Jesus “authorizes” everything in the new covenant age.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2010,08:35) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 22 2010,16:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2010,07:36) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 22 2010,15:23) Hi WJ, To the Glory of the Father Jesus is my savior, for I know that he was indeed the man of the Father's foreordained plan where before time began the Father promised us eternal life in a human anointed with His Spirit.
How's that WJ?
So Jesus does not get any credit or glory for giving his own blood and life for you?So you have two “Two Savours”!
Arians
- Two Savours
- Two Masters
- Two Lords
WJ
Jesus gets credit for BEING the man who died on the cross for me. Jesus does not get credit for being the One True God.1 Cor 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Jesus gets credit for being the man who was MADE INTO a master. He does not get credit for being the One True God.
I follow Jesus because the One True God made him for us to follow. YHWH made for us a perfect human example.
Our Heavenly Father wants us to believe in the NAME of Jesus, because He wants us to believe that what He did for Jesus He has promised to do for us. The whole point of believing in Jesus is that we believe in the work of the Father's Spirit IN MAN.
Our Heavenly Father brought the law to prove to us that we of our own selves cannot accomplish righteousness and immortality. Our Heavenly Father brought forth the man Jesus and anointed him with His Spirit to prove to us that it is the Father's Spirit ALONE that makes man righteous and brings forth eternal life.
So you have 2 Savours and 2 Lords and 2 Masters?WJ
WJ,They are inconsistent aren't they? God said that He is one Lord and one Savior. Yet they allow for multiple lords and saviors but only one God. Go figure.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2010,08:33) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2010,16:24) WJ you should be happy you guys have 3 saviors in 1.
My view is not contradictory to scriptures!God is a “Plural Unity”…
And God said, Let us make man “in our image“, after “our likeness“…:So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1:26, 27
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One with one Name! Matt 28:19
WJ
WJ…….That includes Jesus, because Jesus was a 100% man, and nothing MORE. GOD who is Spirit (indwelt) HIm as He SAID “the Father is (IN) ME, He never said HE was the FATHER or a GOD. That is your deluded Trinitarians false ascertains. But you and your trinitarian brothers have never produced a single scripture where Jesus ever said HE WAS A GOD. Obeying GOD does not make you a GOD. Jesus said He had a GOD and Father and He was the (SAME) as our GOD and FATHER. Why do you struggle to twist clear plain scriptures to meet you trinitarian dogmas. I know this may sound devastating to you WJ, but you and thinker are really wrong on this one.peace and love ……………gene
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 23 2010,05:23) Quote (Gene @ Jan. 23 2010,05:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2010,04:45) Quote (Gene @ Jan. 22 2010,12:25) WJ………Brother you are so wrong, Jodi has explained it perfectly right. You and thnker are both committing IDOLATRY by trying to make Jesus into Very GOD. What Jesus does and did is and will always be to the GLORY of THE FATHER, Who is the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD.
WJ if you harden your heart to these truths it will have a dire consequence to you brother please repent and worship GOD The FATHER as The ONLY TRUE GOD, and NO other, not even Jesus is His equal.peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
GeneWhy do you accuse me of a hard heart and idolatry?
Jesus said judge not that you be not judged!
WJ
WJ…….I absolutely do not believe you have a hard Heart, quit the contrary, I was simply saying you are hardening your heart against the truth concerning the TRINITY, and that is all that was implied there, and nothing more. And as far as the TRINITY GOES IT is a IDOLATRESS TEACHING. WJ……there is nothing personal meant there as concerning you personally.Peace and love ………………gene
Gene,It is YOUR teaching that is idolatrous because you “worship” God the old covenant way. God has commanded that we worship Him through His Son in the new covenant. According to Jesus this means that the Son is to be honored EVEN AS the Father is honored. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father.
thinker
Thinker ………The GOD of the OLD TESTAMENT is the Same GOD of the NEW TESTAMENT. It is the SAME GOD Jesus worshiped and Prayed to , it is sad you are even unable to understand that simple thing. IMOQuote (Gene @ Jan. 23 2010,10:51) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 23 2010,05:23) Quote (Gene @ Jan. 23 2010,05:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2010,04:45) Quote (Gene @ Jan. 22 2010,12:25) WJ………Brother you are so wrong, Jodi has explained it perfectly right. You and thnker are both committing IDOLATRY by trying to make Jesus into Very GOD. What Jesus does and did is and will always be to the GLORY of THE FATHER, Who is the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD.
WJ if you harden your heart to these truths it will have a dire consequence to you brother please repent and worship GOD The FATHER as The ONLY TRUE GOD, and NO other, not even Jesus is His equal.peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
GeneWhy do you accuse me of a hard heart and idolatry?
Jesus said judge not that you be not judged!
WJ
WJ…….I absolutely do not believe you have a hard Heart, quit the contrary, I was simply saying you are hardening your heart against the truth concerning the TRINITY, and that is all that was implied there, and nothing more. And as far as the TRINITY GOES IT is a IDOLATRESS TEACHING. WJ……there is nothing personal meant there as concerning you personally.Peace and love ………………gene
Gene,It is YOUR teaching that is idolatrous because you “worship” God the old covenant way. God has commanded that we worship Him through His Son in the new covenant. According to Jesus this means that the Son is to be honored EVEN AS the Father is honored. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father.
thinker
Thinker ………The GOD of the OLD TESTAMENT is the Same GOD of the NEW TESTAMENT. It is the SAME GOD Jesus worshiped and Prayed to , it is sad you are even unable to understand that simple thing. IMO
Gene,
The God of the old testament set up Jesus Christ as God in this age. The Father Himself says that His Son is God on the throne:But to the Son He says:
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. Hebrews 1:8There it is sir! The Son is God on the throne in the new covenant age. It is sad that you contradict the Father. At least bodhitharta and Adam are honest enough to admit that the new testament scriptures are corrupt and shouldn't be believed. But you confess you believe them at the same denying what they say.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2010,03:42) Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 22 2010,10:57)
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord, And besides Me there is no savior.WJ, is there ANYONE else who can save Israel and do so through sending a man?
I just believe the scripture you quote just as it is written!Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord, And “***BESIDES ME*** there is NO savior“.
Jesus is not “a Savour” by proxy, Jesus is “The Savour”!
WJ
Hi WJ:Think about this a minute. Wasn't it God who gave His only begotten Son, and wasn't it Him whom Jesus was obeying and did obey even unto death on the cross? (And so, without God, there would be no saviour. There would be no Jesus).
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (thethinker @ Jan. 23 2010,05:23) It is YOUR teaching that is idolatrous because you “worship” God the old covenant way. God has commanded that we worship Him through His Son in the new covenant. According to Jesus this means that the Son is to be honored EVEN AS the Father is honored. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father. thinker
Thinker……..But Jesus said GOD seeks those who worship Him in SPIRIT and TRUTH. He did not say GOD was seeking them to worship (JESUS), Himself in spirit and truth did HE. Can't you see how you are twisting up what Jesus plainly said. You need to dump all you Trinitarian dogmas and start over with a pure and clean view of exactly what Jesus and Scriptures say> And i don't mean just little pieces of them but all of them so you can get the complete picture. Little snap shots here and there will not do, you will simply go forward and fall backward. IMOQuote (Gene @ Jan. 22 2010,18:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2010,08:33) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2010,16:24) WJ you should be happy you guys have 3 saviors in 1.
My view is not contradictory to scriptures!God is a “Plural Unity”…
And God said, Let us make man “in our image“, after “our likeness“…:So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1:26, 27
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One with one Name! Matt 28:19
WJ
WJ…….That includes Jesus, because Jesus was a 100% man, and nothing MORE. GOD who is Spirit (indwelt) HIm as He SAID “the Father is (IN) ME, He never said HE was the FATHER or a GOD. That is your deluded Trinitarians false ascertains. But you and your trinitarian brothers have never produced a single scripture where Jesus ever said HE WAS A GOD. Obeying GOD does not make you a GOD. Jesus said He had a GOD and Father and He was the (SAME) as our GOD and FATHER. Why do you struggle to twist clear plain scriptures to meet you trinitarian dogmas. I know this may sound devastating to you WJ, but you and thinker are really wrong on this one.peace and love ……………gene
GeneLook again. It is Jack and I and katjo that reads the scriptures just as they are!
WJ
WJ
in Gen 1;26. just shows God has a conversation to the WORD (Christ) everything has been created through him and for him,
thats that simple, it seems complicated to some but it is simple.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2010,19:40) WJ in Gen 1;26. just shows God has a conversation to the WORD (Christ) everything has been created through him and for him,
thats that simple, it seems complicated to some but it is simple.
But the Word was God!WJ
WJ
in your book not mine,so we back on square one,God does not talk to himself,God is spirit and the mirror qualities will only be spirit but we are physical ,so the word is not only spirit he is inferior to the father this make the reflection or image more clear,Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2010,19:47) WJ
in your book not mine,so we back on square one,God does not talk to himself,God is spirit and the mirror qualities will only be spirit but we are physical ,so the word is not only spirit he is inferior to the father this make the reflection or image more clear,
Then the Bible is not your book?John disagrees with you! John 1:1
WJ
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