The arian dissenters

[Ed J]

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 09 2010,23:07)

Major premise: God alone is Savior. Minor premse: Jesus is the Savior Conclusion : Jesus is God The conclusion necessarily follows from the two premises and is therefore an infallible conclusion. thinker

Hi ThinkingMan,

Major premise: The United States alone dropped the bomb on Hiroshima.
Minor premse: The bombardier dropped the bomb on Hiroshima.
Conclusion : The bombardier is The United States.

The conclusion necessarily follows from the two premises and is therefore an infallible(?) conclusion.

Jesus’ authentic Name [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă has a direct connection to GOD’s name [יה]
in that YÄ is the first part of Jesus’ “REAL” name. GOD’s name is not vocalized
in the English translation of the name Jesus and therefore misses the precise exactness
and direct authentic connection to God’s Hebrew name [יה] YÄ. Jesus’ Name in Hebrew
יהשוע means: (“YÄ is salvation” [יה]+[ישע]=[יהשוע]) the salvation of “GOD the Father”=117.
[יהשוע] “Jesus” REAL name authentically establishes [יהוה] “JEHOVAH” as the highest Name. (Psalm 83:18)

(Phil. 2:9,11: Wherefore [The Word:Father=151] has highly exalted [Jesus=74] giving Him a name
which is above every name, to the glory of [GOD The Father=117].) Neither is there salvation
in any other name: for there is no other name given among men (יהשוע), whereby we must be
saved. (Acts 4:12) People speaking fluent Hebrew know that in essence, [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă
means: “YÄ is Savior”. The Name of [GOD=26] is [“יהוה”=26] spoken as [YÄ=26]; and “YÄ-hä-vā”!

“The Savior”=117 is “GOD The Father”=117, (117=”יהוה האלהים” YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm)!
He is Savior to all who walk the ground! He is “JEHOVAH GOD”; and there is ‘NO’ other! (Isaiah 43:11)

God bless
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 10 2010,09:24)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 09 2010,12:09) Marty Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2010,19:49) The spirit of the Son is the Word of God that God spoke to humanity through him and that he obeyed without sin even unto death on the cross. Marty That statement is so “convoluted” I don't even know where to start! Where is the scripture that says that “Jesus Spirit” is the Word of God? Then you say that the “Word of God” which is the Spirit of the Son was spoken through the Son!   “Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17 This scripture says clearly “The Lord is that Spirit” and not a spoken word of God! WJ Hi Marty Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2010,20:38) Hi WJ: Why not just start at the beginning an read what I have to say. I did but your first statement seemed to be contradictory.   Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2010,20:38) It isn't difficult to understand. It is when you say that Jesus Spirit was the Word of God and then say God spoke his Word through Jesus! Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2010,20:38) Jesus said, “he who has seen me has seen the Father”.  What is the “me” he is speaking of here? The “me” he was speaking of was “Himself” unless there is some kind of secret meaning or you have to read inference into it! Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2010,20:38) How have we seen the Father in seeing him? Oh, Now I see your confusion. You think that when Jesus said…If you have seen “Me” its really not “Me” but it is the Father! No Marty! Jesus didn't say when you see “Me” and know “Me” then you have not seen me or known me, but you have seen the Father and known the Father! Philips question “Lord show us the Father (God) and we will be satisfied was answered when Jesus said… Have I been so long time with you, and “YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME”, (Marty)? “he that HATH SEEN ME” hath seen the Father (God); and “HOW SAYEST THOU THEN, SHEW US THE FATHER (God)?  John 14:9 Notice Jesus is saying to Philip how is it you do not “Know Me”? Why are you asking me to show you the Father? Now you will say that it is because the Father was in him that he makes this claim! But God dwells in you yet can you make the claim of being God in a visible way and that others can know God by knowing you? Before you try to make yourself equal to Jesus and make the ridiculous claim that you can say the same thing, then make sure you use his words when someone asks you to show them God. Then you must say… Have I been so long time with you, and “YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME”, (friend)? he that “HATH SEEN ME” hath seen the Father (God); and “HOW SAYEST THOU THEN, SHEW US THE FATHER? (God)  John 14:9 Will you say, why are you asking to see God when you see me you see God and if you know me you know God? I think this is the kind of statements that people like Jim Jones and David Koresh told their blind and deaf followers! Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2010,20:38) Answer these questions and then we will see where we go from here. Love in Christ, Marty I have probably more than once. But now maybe you can answer this question.. You said… Quote (942767 @ Jan. 07 2010,21:45) The Spirit of our Father, is not a “third person of some tri-une God” . “Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17 The above scripture says the Lord is that Spirit! So is the Spirit a person or not? WJ

Hi WJ:

I am not confused.  I am trying to show you that the disciples and we have seen the Father through the works of obedience that Jesus did in obeying Him.  

Don't you see he was obeying God's Word.

The “me” that he was speaking is not just his physical appearance but the life that he lived in obedience to the Father.

The scriptures state: “God is a Spirit” and “God is love”, and this is the spirit of the Son that was formed within Jesus as he learned to apply the Word of God in his daily life.

Another scripture states that Jesus is the express image of God's person

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi WJ:

You ask:

Quote

“Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17 The above scripture says the Lord is that Spirit! So is the Spirit a person or not?

Yes, indeed this is the spirit of the Son, and we see that we our spirit is being transformed by this same spirit, that is the Word of God as we learn to apply it to our daily lives. But this is speaking of the Word of God, and not the Holy Spirit of the Father.

2Cr 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty
2Cr 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[gollamudi]

No image can be as real as its original. It will remain as the image of its original. So Jesus can not be God of this universe. He is a glorified man in the image of God. More than this belief will make Christianity a mere polytheism.

Peace to all
Adam

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 11 2010,02:41)

No image can be as real as its original. It will remain as the image of its original. So Jesus can not be God of this universe. He is a glorified man in the image of God. More than this belief will make Christianity a mere polythiesm. Peace to all Adam

Adam

If you were invisible then you would have no visible image, right?

If you made yourself visible then we would see your visible image.

Is the visible Image not you?

God makes himself visible to man by taking on the likeness of sinful flesh. Phil 2:6-8

Jesus is the “Image of the invisible God” or “the visible image of God”!

Just ask Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Isaiah and the Apostles if they saw God!

Not hard to understand!

WJ

[GeneBalthrop]

WJ……….You know as well as we an image is only a reflection of the original but never is it the original. go look in a mirror and is that image you see in the mirror you , are you in it ,or being reflected by it. GOD said He made Man in his image so using your logic i Guess we are all GOD'S to, right?. So how come you TRINITARIANS JUST LIMIT IT TO THREE, seeing we are in his image to?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi Marty

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 10 2010,23:58)

Hi WJ: You ask: Quote “Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17 The above scripture says the Lord is that Spirit! So is the Spirit a person or not? Yes, indeed this is the spirit of the Son,

Ok Marty then you are admitting that 2 Cor 3:17, 18 Is Jesus personal Spirit and not the Fathers, therefore meaning the “Lord” in these verse are the person Jesus who is the Spirit, right?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene @ Jan. 11 2010,11:37)

WJ……….You know as well as we an image is only a reflection of the original but never is it the original. go look in a mirror and is that image you see in the mirror you , are you in it ,or being reflected by it. GOD said He made Man in his image so using your logic i Guess we are all GOD'S to, right?. So how come you TRINITARIANS JUST LIMIT IT TO THREE, seeing we are in his image to?

Gene

Argue with Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Isaiah who said they saw God!

What I said is the truth.

You don't have to believe it!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene @ Jan. 11 2010,11:37)

WJ……….You know as well as we an image is only a reflection of the original but never is it the original. go look in a mirror and is that image you see in the mirror you , are you in it ,or being reflected by it. GOD said He made Man in his image so using your logic i Guess we are all GOD'S to, right?. So how come you TRINITARIANS JUST LIMIT IT TO THREE, seeing we are in his image to?

Gene

What are you saying, that God cannot make himself visible?

If he makes himself visible then you are seeing his image, or you are seeing God!

Hello!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene @ Jan. 11 2010,11:37)

WJ……….You know as well as we an image is only a reflection of the original but never is it the original. go look in a mirror and is that image you see in the mirror you , are you in it ,or being reflected by it. GOD said He made Man in his image so using your logic i Guess we are all GOD'S to, right?. So how come you TRINITARIANS JUST LIMIT IT TO THREE, seeing we are in his image to?

Jesus is not a mere reflection!

Jesus is “The Image of the invisble God”.

Are you “THE” image of the invisible God?

We share in his image but we are not “the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being” Heb 1:3

We are a reflection of Jesus, the visible image of God!

Isn't it Jesus that we are becoming like?

That should tell you something Gene. We are supposed to share in the divine nature of God, yet Jesus is who we are to be like!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
An image is never the original and the Father is the God of Jesus and the Jews and us.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 10 2010,09:15)

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 10 2010,04:39) First, we have already been over the point of men being called “gods.” In reference to men it simply means “ruler” or “magistrate.” Even if Jesus is a god to you like other men He would still be in a class all by Himself. Second, I am not aware of any scripture which says that Moses was a “saviour.” Even so it was Jesus who was THE Savior: It is still the word 'theos' and 'elohim' that is being used. It is up to us to determine what kind of ruler, magistrate we are talking about. If it is the Most High, then that is the One True God. So saying that Jesus is the Most High is an unreasonable opinion. Try it yourself. Replace the word 'God' in scripture for the word 'Trinity'. It breaks every scripture that you apply that logic to. Although, I am sure that if you tried hard enough you might find a few where it may appear to work, but in those cases it would be coincidence. God is a HE and a HIM. Not THEY. Jesus taught that it is very important to honour the first commandment.

T8,

First, can you guarantee that all others will be locked out of our debate?

t8:

Quote

God is a HE and a HIM. Not THEY.

ELOHIM said,

26 Then Elohim said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

JEHOVAH said,

Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” 8 So Jehovah scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city.

ADONAI said:

8 Also I heard the voice of the Adonai, saying:

     “ Whom shall I send,
     And who will go for Us?”

Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”
9 And He said, “Go, and tell this people:

t8:

Quote

Jesus taught that it is very important to honour the first commandment.

Then honor the first commandment!

JEHOVAH ELOHIM said:

And God spoke all these words, saying:
      2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
      3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

JUDE said:

4For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. (Critical text)

thinker

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2010,03:47)

Hi Marty Quote (942767 @ Jan. 10 2010,23:58) Hi WJ: You ask: Quote “Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17 The above scripture says the Lord is that Spirit! So is the Spirit a person or not? Yes, indeed this is the spirit of the Son, Ok Marty then you are admitting that 2 Cor 3:17, 18 Is Jesus personal Spirit and not the Fathers, therefore meaning the “Lord” in these verse are the person Jesus who is the Spirit, right? WJ

Hi WJ:

The spirit of the Son is the Word of God that Jesus applied to his daily life, and so, yes, this is the Spirit of the Lord.

But it is not the Holy Spirit of our Father who has taught us the Word of God through Jesus, and who leads us into His written Word, and so God is a Spirit of love, and Jesus is the express image of God's person.  He is a living person(like God) who through the works that he did in obedience to God's Word has manifested God's character to us(a spirit of love), and it is through this sames spirit, the Spirit of the Son, that we also become like him as we learn to apply the Word God in our daily lives.

Quote

1Cr 2:9 But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” [fn] 1Cr 2:10 But God has revealed [them] to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God 1Cr 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 1Cr 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy [fn] Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Quote

2Jo 1:9 Whoever transgresses [fn] and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

God's plan in the beginning was to make man in His own image.  The first man was made a living soul (like God), and the last Adam (Jesus whose spirit was formed through the Word of God) and is the express image of His person in that he is a spirit of love (like God), but he is not God but is the Son of the Living God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 11 2010,17:45)

The spirit of the Son is the Word of God that Jesus applied to his daily life, and so, yes, this is the Spirit of the Lord.

Come on Marty! That is so confusing.

You say…”The spirit of the Son is the Word of God” meaning the Spirit is the Word of God, right?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Marty

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 11 2010,17:45)

The first man was made a living soul (like God), and the last Adam (Jesus whose spirit was formed through the Word of God)…

But you just said that Jesus Spirit is the “Word of God”.  

WJ

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2010,11:17)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 11 2010,17:45) The spirit of the Son is the Word of God that Jesus applied to his daily life, and so, yes, this is the Spirit of the Lord. Come on Marty! That is so confusing. You say…”The spirit of the Son is the Word of God” meaning the Spirit is the Word of God, right? Spirit = Word of God Then you say… “that Jesus applied (the Word of God) to his daily life” Jesus applied Word of God Then you say…”and so, yes, this is the Spirit of the Lord” So Jesus is the Spirit. Summary… The Spirit = the word of God Jesus applied the word of God Jesus is the Spirit (the word of God) How can Jesus be the Spirit or the Word of God that he applied to his life? Where is there a scripture that says the Spirit of the Lord is the Word of God? This scripture says “the Lord is that Spirit” just as scriptures say “God is a Spirit”. Its a simple yes or no question Marty, is the Spirit here the person Jesus? WJ

Hi WJ:

Yes, of course, it is the person of Jesus. The scriptures state that he is the express image of God's person.

It is through obedience to God's Word that we have seen God's character manifest through his life. That is the person of whom we speak. Jesus had a body, but it is what he did in the body that defines ultimately who he is.

He said the following:

Quote

Jhn 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and [they] are life.

Quote

Jhn 15:1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vine dresser Jhn 15:2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; [fn] and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. Jhn 15:3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Jhn 15:4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Marty

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 11 2010,20:00)

Hi WJ: Yes, of course, it is the person of Jesus.  The scriptures state that he is the express image of God's person.

You say the “person OF Jesus”. so let me clarify your statement.

Is the Lord Jesus the Spirit spoken of in this verse…?

“Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17

Yes or no?

WJ

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2010,12:20)

Marty Quote (942767 @ Jan. 11 2010,20:00) Hi WJ: Yes, of course, it is the person of Jesus.  The scriptures state that he is the express image of God's person. You say the “person OF Jesus”. so let me clarify your statement. Is the Lord Jesus the Spirit spoken of in this verse…? “Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17 Yes or no? WJ

Hi WJ:

I already said yes.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 11 2010,20:43)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2010,12:20) Marty Quote (942767 @ Jan. 11 2010,20:00) Hi WJ: Yes, of course, it is the person of Jesus.  The scriptures state that he is the express image of God's person. You say the “person OF Jesus”. so let me clarify your statement. Is the Lord Jesus the Spirit spoken of in this verse…? “Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17 Yes or no? WJ Hi WJ: I already said yes. Love in Christ, Marty

Thanks Marty!

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2010,11:17)

Spirit = Word of God WJ

Hi WJ,

It would be nice if you actually believed this accurate “Bible Truth”=117!

The LORD JEHOVAH=151 (Isaiah 12:2 / Isaiah 26:4)

Isaiah 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid:
   for The LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song;
   he also is become my salvation. “The Savior”=117

Isaiah 26:4 4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever:  
   for in The LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:
   “HolySpirit”=151 is our everlasting strength!

The “HolySpirit”=151 is “The Word [of] FATHER”=151!

John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings:
   and the word which ye hear is not mine,
    but the Father's which sent me.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm (JEHOVAH GOD)! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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