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Quote (t8 @ Nov. 03 2012,05:26) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 02 2012,21:15) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 02 2012,03:41) Gene if you read the text and order of events as recorded in the gospels, then the indisputable order is this, as it is written: EXISTED in the FORM of God > Emptied himself > Came in flesh > Died > Resurrected > In the glory he had with the Father before the world began.
You clearly oppose this while we accept it. Just leave it at that. You are not about to change and I believe this because it is written, so I am not about to adopt your opposing view am I?
And form is not the same as God dwelling inside us. If that was the case, then believers by reason of having the Spirit dwelling in them could rightly say they exist in the form of God. But that is language that I doubt you would use of yourself for example, and I assume that you consider yourself a true believer with God's spirit in you. So why don't you declare to everyone here that you exist in the FORM OF GOD?
Show some confidence in your own teaching and let us hear you say it.
We await your response to this.
T8,— Any human that lives by the Spirit exists in the image of Jehovah and so empties himself and takes on the image of a servant, Colossians 3:10.
— Human beings are born in the flesh even as in the beginning Adam was created a man of flesh and then became a living soul, Genesis 2:7.
— Many saints died and were resurrected about the same time as Jesus Christ, Matthew 27:52-53.
Kerwin. I am not against your response.It just doesn't relate to what I said that is the only problem.
T8,The point of order. I have not looked into that yet.
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 02 2012,21:21) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 02 2012,08:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2012,05:58) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 31 2012,13:55) T, I am not sure what you mean by circling but I know that Jesus was under 50 years old when he spoke with the Jews because God states it is and I believe him.
Acts 2:30 King James Version
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;Romans 1:3 King James Version
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;Kerwin, Jesus WAS under 50 years old, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH.
What do you suppose those bolded words mean in the two scriptures I posted above? Why do you suppose both Peter and Paul used this particular phrase concerning Jesus? If Jesus had never been anything BUT flesh, why would they need to distinguish that he was only the offspring of David “according to the flesh”?
Think it out, man. (I await your DIRECT answers to my last two posts.)
Mike,Adam was created a man of flesh and the became a living soul. The same is true of Jesus.
]Khow do you know that about Jesus
or should we all also worship you and so believe all you say
so sinse you are only a man show some scriptures to this
T,Scripture calls Jesus a human.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 04 2012,02:29) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 02 2012,21:21) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 02 2012,08:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2012,05:58) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 31 2012,13:55) T, I am not sure what you mean by circling but I know that Jesus was under 50 years old when he spoke with the Jews because God states it is and I believe him.
Acts 2:30 King James Version
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;Romans 1:3 King James Version
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;Kerwin, Jesus WAS under 50 years old, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH.
What do you suppose those bolded words mean in the two scriptures I posted above? Why do you suppose both Peter and Paul used this particular phrase concerning Jesus? If Jesus had never been anything BUT flesh, why would they need to distinguish that he was only the offspring of David “according to the flesh”?
Think it out, man. (I await your DIRECT answers to my last two posts.)
Mike,Adam was created a man of flesh and the became a living soul. The same is true of Jesus.
]Khow do you know that about Jesus
or should we all also worship you and so believe all you say
so sinse you are only a man show some scriptures to this
T,Scripture calls Jesus a human.
KQuote Scripture calls Jesus a human. were is that scripture
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2012,08:22) Quote Scripture calls Jesus a human. were is that scripture
Terricca……….Jesus himself said he was a son of man time and time again.Now ask yourself what does that mean if not a Human being and you have your answer Pierre.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Kerwin,
I'm tired of wading through your grammatical mumble jumble.
Just answer the question I asked:
In John 8:58, was Jesus AGREEING with Jews? Was he admitting that THEY were right in saying he HAD NOT seen Abraham because he WAS NOT yet 50 years old?
Does the wording Jesus used in 8:58 make you believe he was AGREEING WITH THEM? YES or NO?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 04 2012,23:28) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2012,08:22) Quote Scripture calls Jesus a human. were is that scripture
Terricca……….Jesus himself said he was a son of man time and time again.Now ask yourself what does that mean if not a Human being and you have your answer Pierre.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
GHis father was not human was he
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 05 2012,02:37) Kerwin, I'm tired of wading through your grammatical mumble jumble.
Just answer the question I asked:
In John 8:58, was Jesus AGREEING with Jews? Was he admitting that THEY were right in saying he HAD NOT seen Abraham because he WAS NOT yet 50 years old?
Does the wording Jesus used in 8:58 make you believe he was AGREEING WITH THEM? YES or NO?
Mike,Your question does not even make sense given the fact the Jews misunderstood Jesus' words that Abraham, a prophet, saw his day. The unbelieving Jews were off track but you are assuming they are not. Jesus was not agreeing that he saw Abraham but yes he is agreeing with other Scriptures that stated he was under 50 years old at that time.
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2012,07:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 04 2012,23:28) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2012,08:22) Quote Scripture calls Jesus a human. were is that scripture
Terricca……….Jesus himself said he was a son of man time and time again.Now ask yourself what does that mean if not a Human being and you have your answer Pierre.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
GHis father was not human was he
T,Son of man means that a person is in some way a decedent of a human being.
In what way was Jesus a decedent of the human David?
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 05 2012,12:54) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2012,07:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 04 2012,23:28) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2012,08:22) Quote Scripture calls Jesus a human. were is that scripture
Terricca……….Jesus himself said he was a son of man time and time again.Now ask yourself what does that mean if not a Human being and you have your answer Pierre.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
GHis father was not human was he
T,Son of man means that a person is in some way a decedent of a human being.
In what way was Jesus a decedent of the human David?
Kin what way his the true believers the offspring of Abraham
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2012,12:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 04 2012,23:28) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2012,08:22) Quote Scripture calls Jesus a human. were is that scripture
Terricca……….Jesus himself said he was a son of man time and time again.Now ask yourself what does that mean if not a Human being and you have your answer Pierre.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
GHis father was not human was he
Terricca…….So was Adam not a human being also because his father was God to, but that did not detour him from being a human being did it that goes for Eve also. God is the father of the whole human race and none of that makes us not human beings now does it, as long as our DNA is of this kind of flesh we will always be human beings just as Jesus also even now, he still is a human being. IMOPeace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 06 2012,07:45) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2012,12:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 04 2012,23:28) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2012,08:22) Quote Scripture calls Jesus a human. were is that scripture
Terricca……….Jesus himself said he was a son of man time and time again.Now ask yourself what does that mean if not a Human being and you have your answer Pierre.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
GHis father was not human was he
Terricca…….So was Adam not a human being also because his father was God to, but that did not detour him from being a human being did it that goes for Eve also. God is the father of the whole human race and none of that makes us not human beings now does it, as long as our DNA is of this kind of flesh we will always be human beings just as Jesus also even now, he still is a human being. IMOPeace and love to you and yours………………….gene
gthat's true but Adam did not have belly button either ,why would that be
and God says that he stopped creating on the sixth day ,did he lied
he also said that on the seventh day he rested ,would this mean that Jesus was created and that was the end of the seventh day of rest of God
or is it that you have all wrong according to scriptures
Terricca………..”O” really, did God cause Sarha to have Issac “the son of Promise” after she was 100 years old, was that not a mirical, Did God not call Cyrus the king and name him 200 years befor he was born and even tell what he would do, did God not cause John the Baptists parents to recieve a miricial berth at their old non child bearing age. God has never stop working mircales even to this day.According to Scriptures. Pauls say this:
“Tell me this, He that does mircales among you doe she do it by works of Law of Hearing of your faith”.
Pierre no where did God say he ever Stopped doing Mircales ever in his creation , your forcing scriptures to meet your own views again. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………….gene
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 05 2012,00:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 05 2012,02:37) In John 8:58, was Jesus AGREEING with Jews? Was he admitting that THEY were right in saying he HAD NOT seen Abraham because he WAS NOT yet 50 years old? Does the wording Jesus used in 8:58 make you believe he was AGREEING WITH THEM? YES or NO?
Mike,Your question does not even make sense……………….
Okay Kerwin. It is clear that you would rather spout nonsense than come to terms with what the scriptures actually teach. (That's right, I haven't forgotten YOUR understanding of 8:58…….. Before Abraham becomes, I am the seed of him and greater than him. )I don't really care that you choose to put your own wishes above the scripture, because there's nothing I can do to stop you anyway. But here is what's really going on in John 8……..
1. Jesus said Abraham was glad to see his day. (Hmmm…….. how would Jesus know anything about Abraham's gladness?)
2. The Jews said, in effect, “You're not even 50 years old, so how can you say you've seen, [OR KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE GLADNESS OF], Abraham?”
3. And here's the part you are PURPOSELY having trouble with, because you don't LIKE what this scripture teaches. This is the part where you need to know if Jesus was AGREEING with what the Jews said, or DISAGREEING with what they said. (Hint, he DISAGREED with them, by saying, “TRULY I SAY TO Y0U, before Abraham even existed, I was already in existence”.
But you will never understand it the way Jesus meant it, Kerwin. And the other 50 scriptures that support this understanding will continue to be ignored by you. And you will continue to insist that, “Philip, I AM with you for so long that you should know me by now” makes perfect sense in English – even though virtually EVERY English translation renders it as “I HAVE BEEN with you for so long”. Why? Simply because you don't LIKE what Jesus taught in 8:58, and so will keep on pretending he was teaching something else, ie: that completely illogical and nonsensical mish-mash I've bolded above.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 06 2012,20:27) Terricca………..”O” really, did God cause Sarha to have Issac “the son of Promise” after she was 100 years old, was that not a mirical, Did God not call Cyrus the king and name him 200 years befor he was born and even tell what he would do, did God not cause John the Baptists parents to recieve a miricial berth at their old non child bearing age. God has never stop working mircales even to this day.According to Scriptures. Pauls say this: “Tell me this, He that does mircales among you doe she do it by works of Law of Hearing of your faith”.
Pierre no where did God say he ever Stopped doing Mircales ever in his creation , your forcing scriptures to meet your own views again. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………….gene
ghow was Issac concieved
was Sarah his mother yeswas Abraham his father
Yes what is it you do not understand
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 04 2012,10:29) Scripture calls Jesus a human.
We believe that he was human and that pre-emptying himself, he existed in the form of God.So we believe both accounts that are written and you believe only one and not the other.
Not much more can be said. Next.
Kerwin. You are allowed to take the same side with the Jews about not believing Jesus words, “before Abraham I am”. Jesus didn't force them to agree with him and neither can we force you.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 07 2012,11:26) Kerwin. You are allowed to take the same side with the Jews about not believing Jesus words, “before Abraham I am”. Jesus didn't force them to agree with him and neither can we force you.
T8,You believe the Jew's conclusion while I do not find them creditable except where they agree with other Scriptures which state Jesus was under 50 years old.
I cannot find a place where Jesus, who is also the Prophet, stated he saw Abraham even though the Jews, in their lack of knowledge, stated he did. I do find in Scripture where the prophets, of which Abraham is one, saw Jesus' day through the Spirit of Christ and rejoiced.
I have also made the point that Scripture declares Jesus is the one by whom Abraham became the father of many nations. I do believe that Scripture and so I also believe that before Abraham was to become, Jesus is he.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 07 2012,11:18) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 04 2012,10:29) Scripture calls Jesus a human.
We believe that he was human and that pre-emptying himself, he existed in the form of God.So we believe both accounts that are written and you believe only one and not the other.
Not much more can be said. Next.
T8,I do not see in what manner you believe Jesus is a human being, as from what I have heard you believe he is some super angel that transformed his body to that of a human.
I have asked and not been answered whether the soul of a beast that is then clothed with human flesh is a human or remains an animal in human flesh. In a like manner is the soul of a super angel who changes his body to human flesh a human being or still a super angel.
Mike,
Quote 1. Jesus said Abraham was glad to see his day. (Hmmm…….. how would Jesus know anything about Abraham's gladness?) The same way Peter does when he was led to write these words.
1 Peter 1:10-12
King James Version (KJV)10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.Quote 2. The Jews said, in effect, “You're not even 50 years old, so how can you say you've seen, [OR KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE GLADNESS OF], Abraham?” Scripture actually explicitly states he was about thirty, as well as being the Prophet.
John 7:40
King James Version (KJV)40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
Quote 3. And here's the part you are PURPOSELY having trouble with, because you don't LIKE what this scripture teaches. This is the part where you need to know if Jesus was AGREEING with what the Jews said, or DISAGREEING with what they said. (Hint, he DISAGREED with them, by saying, “TRULY I SAY TO Y0U, before Abraham even existed, I was already in existence”. That is an interpretation of Jesus' words and not Jesus' words. Why do you think this interpretation is right in inferring that he disagrees with those Scriptures which declared him to be under 5o years old at that time? I am sure it is wrong and that Jesus knew he was under 50 at that time.
I on the other hand believe Jesus is he by whom Abraham was to become; just as Scripture teaches.
Kerwin……..Good point , Jesus was indeed a person through whom the nations were blessed. He was a decedant of Abraham also. Paul brings that out that Jesus was the seed being identified, because it says seed, a singular expression not seeds a plural expression, Jessu was indeed that “
Seed”.Kerwin they just can't except the fact that Jessu was simply a human being .”Only” , brought into “existence., By his berth on this earth , the first man from all creation to be raised from the grave and enter the kingdom of God from,the whole creation of God.
They twist and force scriptures to meet their false doctrines of Preexistence , that they and the Trinitarians preach, they are separatist . Who can not believe God took an ordinary human being from human stock and taught him and perfected him and set him a the head of the household of God, a purely human being, raised to what God has in mind for all humans a place of honor and glory, a position over angels . Man is the Crown Jewel of God's creation the highest order of creation next to God himself. He is made in the very image of God himself.
Man is not an inferior creation as they assume he is. God has placed mankind over all things of his creation but God himself. Jesus is that first man to achieve that ultimate goal of many “Brothers and sisters”. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours ………………………………gene
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