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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 31 2012,10:35) Mike…..Good so you do admit Jesus was a “Son .”OF” Man”
Not one of us pre-existers have ever claimed any different, Gene.The real question is: Do YOU believe that Jesus was existing in the form of God BEFORE being made in the likeness of a human being?
No, you don't. So while we are believing ALL of the scriptures, it seems you are more happy to just pick and choose the scriptures you want to believe.
Therein lies our difference, Gene.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ Oct. 31 2012,13:55) T, I am not sure what you mean by circling but I know that Jesus was under 50 years old when he spoke with the Jews because God states it is and I believe him.
Acts 2:30 King James Version
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;Romans 1:3 King James Version
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;Kerwin, Jesus WAS under 50 years old, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH.
What do you suppose those bolded words mean in the two scriptures I posted above? Why do you suppose both Peter and Paul used this particular phrase concerning Jesus? If Jesus had never been anything BUT flesh, why would they need to distinguish that he was only the offspring of David “according to the flesh”?
Think it out, man. (I await your DIRECT answers to my last two posts.)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2012,05:58) Pierre, Did you switch to a darker cyan color?
]Mikeyes our friend Eddy gived me a code to use how do you like it
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 31 2012,03:27) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2012,17:13) I support the translation-interpretation that Jesus teaches us that “before Abraham is to become”; I am the one” because it is in harmony with the ideas that: 1} Jesus is greater than Abraham
2} Jesus is the Seed by which Abraham has now become the father of many nations of children, who have a faith like his
Really Kerwin?
Do you REALLY believe that the words, “before Abraham is to become, I am the one” are a SENSIBLE WAY for Jesus to explain that he is the seed of Abraham and greater than Abraham?
That smacks of pure, unadulterated NONSENSE. Before Abraham is to become WHAT? And how do the words “I am the one” say, “I am the seed of Abraham and greater than him”? Kerwin, which of the following sentences makes the most sense to English speaking people:
A. Philip, I AM with you for the past three years.
B. Philip, I HAVE BEEN with you for the past three years.
Please answer DIRECTLY with an “A”, or a “B”.
Mike,The English language has both the present indicative and the present continuous and so both sentences are correct.
This is what Scripture teaches:
Galatians 3:16
King James Version (KJV)16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 31 2012,18:15) yes our friend Eddy gived me a code to use how do you like it
It was always a good color, but now I can see it much better. Good job, Eddy!
Kerwin, have you EVER said, “I AM a member of Heaven Net for the past three years”?
Of course not. Nor will you EVER say it in the future. Why? Because if you were to ever talk about how long you've been a member here, you would say, “I HAVE BEEN a member of Heaven Net for the past three years”…………. and you KNOW it!
(Do you think the other members here can't see as plain as day that you are PURPOSELY answering a simple question WRONG, just so you can “be right”?)
Btw, I didn't ask you if both sentences were “correct”, did I? Please answer the question I actually asked.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 30 2012,05:26) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 29 2012,19:42) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 29 2012,08:54) The bible doesnt teach falsely, you and Mike and T8 do concerning Jesus preexistence as a sentinel Being before his berth on this earth.
The bible teaches that he existed in the form of God before coming as a man. This is what we believe.Replace the words 'sentinel being' with 'the form of God' and then you accurately portray what we believe.
T8……..the bible teaches no such thing, you and the rest of the Preexistences and Trinitarians teach that which represents about 95% of all Christrodom, Tell me T8 why don't you even consider all the many scriptures that show Jesus did not preeexist his berth like Just a few i have listed here alsready.You say not Sentinel Being, but a Form of God is your view . Please tell us what is that Form of GOD you believe in, what does it look like, Jesus said he was Flesh and Blood after he was resurected but you say he is a Form of God.
……………………gene
Gene I don't even need to prove to you anything about Jesus existing in the form of God because I get it from scripture.Please take this up with the author.
Thanks.
“Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,”
“who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,”
The crazy thing is Mike is “I am” (Ego Eimi) is mentioned a number of times in scripture by Jesus and other beings such as angels and men and as far as I have read, not one is talking about being a mere memory, but is directly relating the words to them existing.
Yet they take Jesus one to have a different meaning. And why do they do that. One word. “BIAS”.
T8………So which one is it , Form or Nature , according to Strongs the word comes from the Greek (morphe) which is better translated as “Nature” of God. Which shows us that Jesus had the “nature of God “in” him, and how is that if not by the Spirit of God Dwelling (IN) Just as he said it was over and over. believe you not that the Father is “in” me was the question he ask. God is Sprit therefore his Nature is also of Spirit and can indwell us all as it did Jesus also.
None of that had any thing to do with Jesus Preexisting his berth God can install his “FORM” or better HIS Nature in anyone he choses to. But none of that would make the person a Preexisting “Being” and that includes Jesus also. The only thing that Preexisted was the Spirit of the Living God which you are confusing with the “man” Jesus
T8, i love you brother, but you are truly wrong on Jesus Preexisting his berth as anykind of “Being”. This is a hugh false teaching and only moves Jesus away from his human Roots as a Plain Human Being . It is a Doctrine of Seperation and creates a form of Idolatry, rather you understand that or not Brother it doesn't change the truth. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………………gene
Gene if you read the text and order of events as recorded in the gospels, then the indisputable order is this, as it is written:
EXISTED in the FORM of God > Emptied himself > Came in flesh > Died > Ressurected > In the glory he had with the Father before the world began.
You clearly oppose this while we accept it. Just leave it at that. You are not about to change and I believe this because it is written, so I am not about to adopt your opposing view am I?
And form is not the same as God dwelling inside us. If that was the case, then believers by reason of having the Spirit dwelling in them could rightly say they exist in the form of God. But that is language that I doubt you would use of yourself for example, and I assume that you consider yourself a true believer with God's spirit in you. So why don't you declare to everyone here that you exist in the FORM OF GOD?
Show some confidence in your own teaching and let us hear you say it.
We await your response to this.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 01 2012,04:42) Yet they take Jesus one to have a different meaning. And why do they do that. One word. “BIAS”.
Pure, unadulterated bias is the ONLY reason behind the Bizzaro World tactic I highlighted and called “Only in the Case of Jesus”.Quote (t8 @ Nov. 01 2012,04:42) The crazy thing is Mike is “I am” (Ego Eimi) is mentioned a number of times in scripture by Jesus and other beings such as angels and men and as far as I have read, not one is talking about being a mere memory, but is directly relating the words to them existing.
Agreed. And along those same lines, when Jesus says “the glory I HAD with you before the world began”, it is only BIAS that would cause someone to understand those words as “the glory THE THOUGHT OF ME IN YOUR HEAD HAD with you before the world began”.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2012,05:58) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 31 2012,13:55) T, I am not sure what you mean by circling but I know that Jesus was under 50 years old when he spoke with the Jews because God states it is and I believe him.
Acts 2:30 King James Version
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;Romans 1:3 King James Version
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;Kerwin, Jesus WAS under 50 years old, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH.
What do you suppose those bolded words mean in the two scriptures I posted above? Why do you suppose both Peter and Paul used this particular phrase concerning Jesus? If Jesus had never been anything BUT flesh, why would they need to distinguish that he was only the offspring of David “according to the flesh”?
Think it out, man. (I await your DIRECT answers to my last two posts.)
Mike,Adam was created a man of flesh and the became a living soul. The same is true of Jesus.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 02 2012,03:41) Gene if you read the text and order of events as recorded in the gospels, then the indisputable order is this, as it is written: EXISTED in the FORM of God > Emptied himself > Came in flesh > Died > Resurrected > In the glory he had with the Father before the world began.
You clearly oppose this while we accept it. Just leave it at that. You are not about to change and I believe this because it is written, so I am not about to adopt your opposing view am I?
And form is not the same as God dwelling inside us. If that was the case, then believers by reason of having the Spirit dwelling in them could rightly say they exist in the form of God. But that is language that I doubt you would use of yourself for example, and I assume that you consider yourself a true believer with God's spirit in you. So why don't you declare to everyone here that you exist in the FORM OF GOD?
Show some confidence in your own teaching and let us hear you say it.
We await your response to this.
T8,— Any human that lives by the Spirit exists in the image of Jehovah and so empties himself and takes on the image of a servant, Colossians 3:10.
— Human beings are born in the flesh even as in the beginning Adam was created a man of flesh and then became a living soul, Genesis 2:7.
— Many saints died and were resurrected about the same time as Jesus Christ, Matthew 27:52-53.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2012,07:53) Kerwin, have you EVER said, “I AM a member of Heaven Net for the past three years”?
Of course not. Nor will you EVER say it in the future. Why? Because if you were to ever talk about how long you've been a member here, you would say, “I HAVE BEEN a member of Heaven Net for the past three years”…………. and you KNOW it!
(Do you think the other members here can't see as plain as day that you are PURPOSELY answering a simple question WRONG, just so you can “be right”?)
Btw, I didn't ask you if both sentences were “correct”, did I? Please answer the question I actually asked.
Mike,You are getting confused about proper English and common usage. Jesus declared “I am with you always” which is proper English while common English is “I will be with you always”. Common English is sloppy as it fails to express the full meaning of Jesus' words.
In general “Have been” means that an action is performed from an indeterminate time in the past to the present. The action may or may not continue into the future. It is not a past tense verb.
In general “will be” means an action is performed in the future and may or may not have been performed in the past and/or present.
I am conveys the idea that Jesus performed the action in the past, present, and future.
Jesus departed from Philip for a little while but afterwards he stated “I am with you always”.
The Ancient Greeks may have used the present indicative instead of the various continuous verbs in some cases if they had no continuous verbs. In which case context would determine which is appropriate as long as the worldview of the people of that time is also factored in.
What does “I have been before Abraham became/to become x”, where x is a debatable variable, mean? Does it go with your teaching or are you just reacting to the groundless Trinitarian insistence Jesus is claiming to be Jehovah?
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 02 2012,08:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2012,05:58) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 31 2012,13:55) T, I am not sure what you mean by circling but I know that Jesus was under 50 years old when he spoke with the Jews because God states it is and I believe him.
Acts 2:30 King James Version
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;Romans 1:3 King James Version
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;Kerwin, Jesus WAS under 50 years old, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH.
What do you suppose those bolded words mean in the two scriptures I posted above? Why do you suppose both Peter and Paul used this particular phrase concerning Jesus? If Jesus had never been anything BUT flesh, why would they need to distinguish that he was only the offspring of David “according to the flesh”?
Think it out, man. (I await your DIRECT answers to my last two posts.)
Mike,Adam was created a man of flesh and the became a living soul. The same is true of Jesus.
]Khow do you know that about Jesus
or should we all also worship you and so believe all you say
so sinse you are only a man show some scriptures to thisQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2012,13:38) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 01 2012,04:42) The crazy thing is Mike is “I am” (Ego Eimi) is mentioned a number of times in scripture by Jesus and other beings such as angels and men and as far as I have read, not one is talking about being a mere memory, but is directly relating the words to them existing.
Agreed. And along those same lines, when Jesus says “the glory I HAD with you before the world began”, it is only BIAS that would cause someone to understand those words as “the glory THE THOUGHT OF ME IN YOUR HEAD HAD with you before the world began”.
Further, they actually are teaching the very opposite. Because 'return' means another turn, and they deny that Jesus was with the Father before and is again having another turn with the Father so to speak.Maybe they need to take an English course and understand what 're' does to a word. e.g., repeat, redone, relocate, remain, reassess, etc, re etc
As much as they try to mask it, they are conveying the complete opposite of the text. And Gene does this with many other things too. He is in a state of rebellion against many scriptures. He needs to sort himself out. Up to him and him alone.
All we can do is keep our house in order and give a good witness and hope that encourages others to do the same.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 02 2012,21:15) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 02 2012,03:41) Gene if you read the text and order of events as recorded in the gospels, then the indisputable order is this, as it is written: EXISTED in the FORM of God > Emptied himself > Came in flesh > Died > Resurrected > In the glory he had with the Father before the world began.
You clearly oppose this while we accept it. Just leave it at that. You are not about to change and I believe this because it is written, so I am not about to adopt your opposing view am I?
And form is not the same as God dwelling inside us. If that was the case, then believers by reason of having the Spirit dwelling in them could rightly say they exist in the form of God. But that is language that I doubt you would use of yourself for example, and I assume that you consider yourself a true believer with God's spirit in you. So why don't you declare to everyone here that you exist in the FORM OF GOD?
Show some confidence in your own teaching and let us hear you say it.
We await your response to this.
T8,— Any human that lives by the Spirit exists in the image of Jehovah and so empties himself and takes on the image of a servant, Colossians 3:10.
— Human beings are born in the flesh even as in the beginning Adam was created a man of flesh and then became a living soul, Genesis 2:7.
— Many saints died and were resurrected about the same time as Jesus Christ, Matthew 27:52-53.
Kerwin. I am not against your response.It just doesn't relate to what I said that is the only problem.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 02 2012,08:41) Gene if you read the text and order of events as recorded in the gospels, then the indisputable order is this, as it is written: EXISTED in the FORM of God > Emptied himself > Came in flesh > Died > Ressurected > In the glory he had with the Father before the world began.
You clearly oppose this while we accept it. Just leave it at that. You are not about to change and I believe this because it is written, so I am not about to adopt your opposing view am I?
And form is not the same as God dwelling inside us. If that was the case, then believers by reason of having the Spirit dwelling in them could rightly say they exist in the form of God. But that is language that I doubt you would use of yourself for example, and I assume that you consider yourself a true believer with God's spirit in you. So why don't you declare to everyone here that you exist in the FORM OF GOD?
Show some confidence in your own teaching and let us hear you say it.
We await your response to this.
T8……Look up the word used there for “FORM” and there is you answer it should be rendered “NATURE”, Jesus did Exist in the Nature of GOD (via the holy Spirit in him)when he walked this earth Just as Paul was saying. You problem is you move the term “EXISTED” as meaning before he was on this earth when Paul was talking about a Past time when he was walking on this earth. Your pulling a old shell game on people > You full well know Paul was talking about Jesus when he was on this earth. IMOJesus came to exist in the Flesh just as we do through a Berth process . He never said one time he prexisted his Berth on thi earth as any kind of “BEING”
Here is something for you to try to twist up also.
In the book of Hebrews it say this > What is man that thou art mindfull of him, you have “MADE” Him a (little) lower the the angels , you have ( a past tense expression) crowned him with honor and glory, you have put “all things” under his (mankinds) feet. in that you have put all things under him (mankind) there is nothing that is not under him (mankind).
But we do not yetsee all thing under his (mankinds) feet , but what DO WE SEE?, we see Jesus who was “MADE” (just like us) a little lower then the angels, for the tasting od death Just like we also do Now crowned with Glory and Honor. He is what God planed for all Makind and has achieved or attained to that Crown of Glory and Honor. WE also can to. Your religion of (Seperation) works to destory that Plan of God and the Example of the Man Jesus to us all.
So this MAN Jesus was as we are “MADE” Lower then the angles also, the exact same way we are. I see no difference between the way Jesus was “MADE” lower then angles then we are, i see no difference between him being “MADE and us Being MADE that way.
Only you trinitarians and Preexistence desperately try to Move Jesus away from Mankind. Your Work of seperating Christ idenity from Man is a work of iniquity and you are both to proud and stubbern to see or even consider this, to understand it. But yet you accuse me and others here as being that way when in fact T8 it is you who are being that way. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
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