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Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 11 2012,01:21) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 10 2012,04:46) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,14:40) Your claim is not that Jesse and David are decedents of Jesus but that they were created through Jesus. That idea of yours introduces a time paradox to your teaching…….
Pierre is simply reading and believing what the scriptures teach, Kerwin. If there is a “paradox” involved, then it is a paradox taught by the scriptures themselves – and not something made up by Pierre.It would seem then that your argument is against what the scriptures actually teach, and not against Pierre for repeating those teachings, right?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,14:40) ………in his name all things are created anew……
But Col 1:16 says that ALL things WERE created by him – not “all NEW things ARE created by him”.And you can argue “aorist tense” until you're blue in the face, Kerwin, but this teaching is not only in Col 1:16. It is also in John 1:3, 1 Cor 8:6, and Heb 1:2. And the words “NEW things” are not used in ANY of those teachings.
Hi Kerwin and Mike,Jesus was a living existential paradox.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J.Scripture cannot be broken. A paradox is a break, lack of information is not.
K
Quote The words “NO MAN BORN OF MAN CAN CLAIM THAT HE DOES NOT SIN” deny that Jesus can set a person free from sin. It is necessary to believe that you can be set free for the one who doubts cannot expect to receive anything from Jehovah. You can see this is true because those that love seek to justify their actions while those that love Jehovah seek to love as he does.
you say;;deny that Jesus can set a person free from sin. “” this is not what I said and what I said is true;PS 49:7 No man can by any means redeem his brother
Or give to God a ransom for him—only Christ the son of God that came from above from the father could give us salvation of our sins.
Quote You can see this is true because those that love seek to justify their actions while those that love Jehovah seek to love as he does. Col 1:10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
do you think that Paul was teaching justification when he said those words in verse 10
T,
This is what the KJV states.
Psalm 49:6-7
King James Version (KJV)6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;
7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:Jesus is not one of “them” for he has never sinned.
Colossians 1:10 teaches how to love as Jehovah does; a lesson that is the sum of Scripture.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,17:28) T, This is what the KJV states.
Psalm 49:6-7
King James Version (KJV)6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;
7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:Jesus is not one of “them” for he has never sinned.
Colossians 1:10 teaches how to love as Jehovah does; a lesson that is the sum of Scripture.
Klook back in the start of our conversation and you can see you are going out of track ,your answer does not even make sense
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,06:54) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 11 2012,01:21) Hi Kerwin and Mike, Jesus was a living existential paradox.
God bless
Ed J
Ed J.Scripture cannot be broken. A paradox is a break, lack of information is not.
Hi Kerwin,A paradox can be and is true in many cases.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 11 2012,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,06:54) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 11 2012,01:21) Hi Kerwin and Mike, Jesus was a living existential paradox.
God bless
Ed J
Ed J.Scripture cannot be broken. A paradox is a break, lack of information is not.
Hi Kerwin,A paradox can be and is true in many cases.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J.A paradox is a contradiction.
Mary did not come to exist but that Jesus existed first.
Jesus did not come to exist but that Mary existed first.According to those two statement neither Mary or Jesus exist as the other had to exist before they could.
If they exist it is a contradiction and a contradiction is a break in Scripture.
Another example is:
Jehovah cannot be the God of those that are dead.
Jehovah is the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac whose bodies were dead.
If you claim they are dead in all ways then you have a contradiction and Jesus explicitly stated that could not be.Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,06:33) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,17:28) T, This is what the KJV states.
Psalm 49:6-7
King James Version (KJV)6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;
7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:Jesus is not one of “them” for he has never sinned.
Colossians 1:10 teaches how to love as Jehovah does; a lesson that is the sum of Scripture.
Klook back in the start of our conversation and you can see you are going out of track ,your answer does not even make sense
T,Where do you consider the start of our conversation to be?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,15:07) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 11 2012,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,06:54) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 11 2012,01:21) Hi Kerwin and Mike, Jesus was a living existential paradox.
God bless
Ed J
Ed J.Scripture cannot be broken. A paradox is a break, lack of information is not.
Hi Kerwin,A paradox can be and is true in many cases.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J.A paradox is a contradiction.
Mary did not come to exist but that Jesus existed first.
Jesus did not come to exist but that Mary existed first.According to those two statement neither Mary or Jesus exist as the other had to exist before they could.
If they exist it is a contradiction and a contradiction is a break in Scripture.
Another example is:
Jehovah cannot be the God of those that are dead.
Jehovah is the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac whose bodies were dead.
If you claim they are dead in all ways then you have a contradiction and Jesus explicitly stated that could not be.
Hi Kerwin, not so.Jesus is called 'a king' yet he died a servant.
(is this not Paradoxical enough for you?)How about these…
“For whosoever will save his life shall lose it:
and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.” (Matt 16:25)“whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.” (Mark 10:44)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd J.
How about these…
“For whosoever will save his life shall lose it:
and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.” (Matt 16:25)“whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.” (Mark 10:44)
Neither of those is a contradiction as a godly king serves God and his people and a human that receives eternal life must first surrender the life of this world and those things that belong to it.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,16:50) Ed J. How about these…
“For whosoever will save his life shall lose it:
and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.” (Matt 16:25)“whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.” (Mark 10:44)
Neither of those is a contradiction as a godly king serves God and his people and a human that receives eternal life must first surrender the life of this world and those things that belong to it.
Hi Kerwin,Then you know the truth of paradoxes.
Jesus was a living existential paradox.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Oct. 04 2012,01:05) T8, We are instructed to walk according to the spirit. The Spirit that we are instructed to walk by is neither the soul, as you do not walk by the soul, nor is it the on man walks by, as man falls short of the glory of God. I do not see a spirit short of God's glory returning to Jehovah as did not come from him. Our souls did.
Is spirit and breath the same word? I thought it was.Anyway, for now I offer this:
Job 32:8
But it is the spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding.I Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one SpiritI haven't got time to check, but I remember learning that baptism was an ongoing thing. So it meant that we had an eternal gift of the Spirit. A drink that is given to us always so that we will not thirst again.
So the difference here is that the initial spirit or breath give us life and understanding, but not eternal life. Being given the Spirit continuous (baptism) is what eternal life is. As the Spirit is not taken away from us.
Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.Quote (t8 @ Oct. 12 2012,03:53) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 04 2012,01:05) T8, We are instructed to walk according to the spirit. The Spirit that we are instructed to walk by is neither the soul, as you do not walk by the soul, nor is it the on man walks by, as man falls short of the glory of God. I do not see a spirit short of God's glory returning to Jehovah as did not come from him. Our souls did.
Is spirit and breath the same word? I thought it was.Anyway, for now I offer this:
Job 32:8
But it is the spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding.I Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one SpiritI haven't got time to check, but I remember learning that baptism was an ongoing thing. So it meant that we had an eternal gift of the Spirit. A drink that is given to us always so that we will not thirst again.
So the difference here is that the initial spirit or breath give us life and understanding, but not eternal life. Being given the Spirit continuous (baptism) is what eternal life is. As the Spirit is not taken away from us.
Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.
t8good description
T8………..Right the Spirit is what give us our intellects it is not a person but it is Cognate thoughts, rather clean or unclean rather holy or unholy, spirits are not persons they are what is (IN) Persons, A Living Soul is a “separate” individual Person who has Spirits in it. A dead Soul is a a “separate” Body with no Spirits in it. Just that simple. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2012,17:28) T, This is what the KJV states.
7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
Jesus is not one of “them” for he has never sinned.
Pierre's version is correct, Kerwin. The Hebrew says “no man” ('iysh).How will your explanation change now?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2012,03:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2012,23:53) Jesus also point blank tells the Jews he existed before Abraham existed. But you are correct, Pierre: The fact that Kerwin chooses not to believe these things for personal reasons doesn't make these things untrue.
Mike,That is what you have been brought to want Jesus to state; it is not what Jesus was teaching.
John 8 NWT
57 Therefore the Jews said to him: “You are not yet fifty years old, and still you have seen Abraham?”58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”
The teaching is easy enough for a third grader to understand it, Kerwin. In fact, the teaching is backed up by more than 50 other scriptures.
But, like I told Pierre, The fact that Kerwin chooses not to believe these things for personal reasons doesn't make these things untrue.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 11 2012,22:58) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2012,03:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2012,23:53) Jesus also point blank tells the Jews he existed before Abraham existed. But you are correct, Pierre: The fact that Kerwin chooses not to believe these things for personal reasons doesn't make these things untrue.
Mike,That is what you have been brought to want Jesus to state; it is not what Jesus was teaching.
John 8 NWT
57 Therefore the Jews said to him: “You are not yet fifty years old, and still you have seen Abraham?”58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”
The teaching is easy enough for a third grader to understand it, Kerwin. In fact, the teaching is backed up by more than 50 other scriptures.
But, like I told Pierre, The fact that Kerwin chooses not to believe these things for personal reasons doesn't make these things untrue.
Mike,The word “existence” is not in John 8:58 as “to become/became” is the best choice as it does not put anything in the text except making it past or present. “Was” may be an acceptable alternative of “became”. “I am”, “I am he” is present tense.
Kerwin………You are right apsolutly right. The man Jesus is the one God was speaking of , he is the heir of his father king David's throne. Jesus plainly said he was the root and offspring of king David. No matter how hard these deceived separatist Try to separate Jesus' human identity with his human Father and us they Can't , without destroying the integrity of our scriptures. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours…………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 13 2012,09:18) Kerwin………You are right apsolutly right. The man Jesus is the one God was speaking of , he is the heir of his father king David's throne. Jesus plainly said he was the root and offspring of king David. No matter how hard these deceived separatist Try to separate Jesus' human identity with his human Father and us they Can't , without destroying the integrity of our scriptures. IMO Peace and love to you and yours…………………………………..gene
Our scriptures
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,18:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 11 2012,22:58) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2012,03:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2012,23:53) Jesus also point blank tells the Jews he existed before Abraham existed. But you are correct, Pierre: The fact that Kerwin chooses not to believe these things for personal reasons doesn't make these things untrue.
Mike,That is what you have been brought to want Jesus to state; it is not what Jesus was teaching.
John 8 NWT
57 Therefore the Jews said to him: “You are not yet fifty years old, and still you have seen Abraham?”58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”
The teaching is easy enough for a third grader to understand it, Kerwin. In fact, the teaching is backed up by more than 50 other scriptures.
But, like I told Pierre, The fact that Kerwin chooses not to believe these things for personal reasons doesn't make these things untrue.
Mike,The word “existence” is not in John 8:58 as “to become/became” is the best choice as it does not put anything in the text except making it past or present. “Was” may be an acceptable alternative of “became”. “I am”, “I am he” is present tense.
Kerwin,You are once again playing games in your zealous effort to thwart any scriptures that teach what you don't WANT them to teach.
Doesn't “Abraham became” mean basically the same thing as “Abraham came into being”?
And as for the present tense “I am”, look once again to John 14:9, as it is rendered in virtually every English translation there is, for the answer to your dilemma.
These are called “idiomatic problems” that occur when translating one language to another, Kerwin. If you can HONESTLY tell me that “I have been” is a COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE translation of the PRESENT TENSE “ego eimi” in John 14:9, then you will have a leg to stand on with John 8:58.
So? CAN YOU tell me that “I have been” in 14:9 is “faulty”, or that it deters from the teaching? YES or NO?
Kerwin…….Yes Jesus existed in scriptures before Abraham and is before him in importance also. That was Jesus' point it had nothing to do with His existence as a “Sentinel” Being of any kind. These people affirm that Jesus preexisted his berth on this earth , but have absolutely no idea of what they are saying , they must force the text to say what in fact it is not saying and they do this over and over again and again, they have bought into the false teachings of the Trinitarians who as they are preexistences preachers that causes the separation of Jesus' Identity with the human race They will get their teachings thrown in their own faces at the return of Jesus, He will say to them well and Good , you who are not like me, them i am not like you either then right? so be gone from me, a just sentence for those who try to separate Jesus for our own Identity as Human Beings. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………….gene
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