The Angel of the LORD

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ July 25 2012,21:18)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2012,08:19) I think, therefore I am.  – René Descartes Kerwin, can you or Gene tell me what the words “I am” mean in this famous philosophical statement?  (Please just give me a direct and honest answer.) Mike, He is considering.

What?

Do the words “I am” mean “I exist” in that statement, Kerwin? YES or NO?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 26 2012,06:13)

Kerwin. Jesus simply means; before Abraham, I was already in existence,even though I am only 33yrs old. What is the fuss. wakeup.

Bravo.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2012,01:12)

T; Mankind was created in the form of God; then went in search of many schemes. Jesus, like Adam before him, was created in the form of God. Adam was created a new man, just as Jesus would later be, but , unlike Jesus, chose to put on the old man when he disobeyed. Does Jesus wear the new man created like God in true holiness and righteousness?

k

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Mankind was created in the form of God; then went in search of many schemes.

this is only true in your understanding not in scriptures

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Jesus, like Adam before him, was created in the form of God.

in this nothing is true to the scriptures,only in your imagination

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Adam was created a new man, just as Jesus would later be, but , unlike Jesus, chose to put on the old man when he disobeyed

Adam was not created a new man he was the first ,and so their was no old man ;Jesus was never a new man ,he even never was a old man ,your invention are getting more and more away from scriptures

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Does Jesus wear the new man created like God in true holiness and righteousness?

like i said before Jesus Christ was never an old or new man ,this is only in your own mind not in scriptures,and if you arrive to be righteous and holy then you are not man driven but are spirit driven and so now are more a spirit than man,

[terraricca]

wakeup

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Terra. You quoted in the previous page.Jesus saying; If anyone follow my words,he will never see death. We know we all die; so how can we not see death? can you explain? wakeup.

and we know that all of his apostles died right yes

and the words Jesus said was said to all ,right yes

what did he mean then with what he said

Jesus said that his father is not the God of the dead but of the living ;and to prove his point he mention that in scriptures it says THE GOD OF ABRAHAM ,ISACC ,AND JACOB,an they all knew they have deceased by then,
so Jesus pointed out a fact ,that by following his words to God our father and believing in him would allow us to be resurrected for live ,if not we will die as he says in John 3 ,

Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Jn 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”

pay attention on the last verse and the last few words it says;so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”

understand that this is the foundation to receive our live from God

Now there is the contrast of things ; Everyone who does evil hates the light; what those words mean evil does not mean criminals,bandits,murderers,thieves ,liars,ect;only,but also those who do not joint God and believe in the grace of him through his son Jesus Christ ,and so have prefer to stay in the dark than coming to the light of Christ the only begotten son of God.TO BE SAVED

so any one in is live time that comes to Christ and that grow to righteousness and holiness and take it as the purpose of his live on earth as come to the light ,and so will not see dead ,and this means that when you die here you are changed and placed in Gods favor,and Waite for the resurrection in the beginning of the 1000 years of Christ reign,
this is MY BELIEVE

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,11:58)

wakeup Quote Terra. You quoted in the previous page.Jesus saying; If anyone follow my words,he will never see death. We know we all die; so how can we not see death? can you explain? wakeup.

Terra.

So? where is your answer to such a simple question?

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,19:05)

Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,11:58) wakeup Quote Terra. You quoted in the previous page.Jesus saying; If anyone follow my words,he will never see death. We know we all die; so how can we not see death? can you explain? wakeup. Terra. So? where is your answer to such a simple question? wakeup.

it was printing while you were posting

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,12:25)

Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,19:05) Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,11:58) wakeup Quote Terra. You quoted in the previous page.Jesus saying; If anyone follow my words,he will never see death. We know we all die; so how can we not see death? can you explain? wakeup. Terra. So? where is your answer to such a simple question? wakeup. it was printing while you were posting

Thank you for such a long answer to such a simple question.

God is indeed the God of the living.

But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH?
How can?

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,19:49)

Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,12:25) Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,19:05) Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,11:58) wakeup Quote Terra. You quoted in the previous page.Jesus saying; If anyone follow my words,he will never see death. We know we all die; so how can we not see death? can you explain? wakeup. Terra. So? where is your answer to such a simple question? wakeup. it was printing while you were posting   Thank you for such a long answer to such a simple question. God is indeed the God of the living. But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH? How can? wakeup.

wakeup

what does it mean NOT SEE DEAD

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,12:56)

Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,19:49) Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,12:25) Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,19:05) Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,11:58) wakeup Quote Terra. You quoted in the previous page.Jesus saying; If anyone follow my words,he will never see death. We know we all die; so how can we not see death? can you explain? wakeup. Terra. So? where is your answer to such a simple question? wakeup. it was printing while you were posting   Thank you for such a long answer to such a simple question. God is indeed the God of the living. But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH? How can? wakeup. wakeup what does it mean NOT SEE DEAD

Terra.

It means you shall not SEE DEATH.
How shall we not SEE death?

[kerwin]

Wakeup,

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Kerwin. Jesus simply means; before Abraham, I was already in existence,even though I am only 33yrs old. What is the fuss. wakeup.

That is what the unbelievers thought he was teaching but it is not what he teaches as they bungled the fact Abraham saw Jesus' day through prophecy.  Jesus is instead teaching that before Abraham “to become”, I am.

The verb “ginomai” Aorist infinitive middle and it does not seem it should translate how certain experts have translated it in John 8:58.  According to what I have heard it is a verb with “to” attached and in some cases does not even speak of a past event.  In addition the subject is acting and receiving the results of that action.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,06:20)

Quote (kerwin @ July 25 2012,21:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2012,08:19) I think, therefore I am.  – René Descartes Kerwin, can you or Gene tell me what the words “I am” mean in this famous philosophical statement?  (Please just give me a direct and honest answer.) Mike, He is considering. What?   Do the words “I am” mean “I exist” in that statement, Kerwin?  YES or NO?

Mike,

Taken out of context it could mean just as I stated as I used a synonym for think.

Here is a better example “Before Fred is to think, I am”.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,11:18)

But it doesn't say “before Abraham I am”, as in “I am before Abraham in position”.  Instead, it says, “before Abraham EXISTED, I have been”. In order for “position” to be the meaning here, the word “existed” must vanish from the scripture.  Would you like to re-write the scripture without that word, Gene?  Or is it better that we form our understanding around the words that were actually written?

Mike………..If iI say Before Abraham EXISTED, I have Been, still does not work for you, because I COULD ASK YOU , I have “been” what ? In the plan and will of GOD ? Mentioned in scripture ? was Prophesied about? and on and on it goes. Don't you see you Preexistences are forcing the text to meet you dogmas?.

That should have answered you question Mike. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours Brother……………………………………….gene

[terraricca]

wakeup

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Terra. It means you shall not SEE DEATH. How shall we not SEE death?

ok, so next question “WHAT IS DEAD

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,01:26)

wakeup Quote Terra. It means  you shall not SEE DEATH. How shall we not SEE death? ok, so next question “WHAT IS DEAD

Terra.

Now you are answering a question with a question.
Death means when you stop living,when you give up your last breath.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 28 2012,17:22)

Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,01:26) wakeup Quote Terra. It means  you shall not SEE DEATH. How shall we not SEE death? ok, so next question “WHAT IS DEAD Terra. Now you are answering a question with a question. Death means when you stop living,when you give up your last breath. wakeup.

wakeup

if this is so ;then why scriptures is saying that God is the God of the living the God of Abraham ,Isaac ,and Jacob.
this is the answer you seek;But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH
please tell me how that works in your view that we stop breathing and we dead

[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2012,20:21)

Wakeup, Quote Kerwin. Jesus simply means; before Abraham, I was already in existence,even though I am only 33yrs old. What is the fuss. wakeup. That is what the unbelievers thought he was teaching but it is not what he teaches as they bungled the fact Abraham saw Jesus' day through prophecy.  Jesus is instead teaching that before Abraham “to become”, I am. The verb “ginomai” Aorist infinitive middle and it does not seem it should translate how certain experts have translated it in John 8:58.  According to what I have heard it is a verb with “to” attached and in some cases does not even speak of a past event.  In addition the subject is acting and receiving the results of that action.

Kerwin.

Abraham could not have seen Jesus day in prophesy,because there are no books written in abrahams day.he was before all the prophets,exept Enoch,the 7th from Adam.
So he must have seen it in a vision.

wakeup.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,10:30)

Quote (Wakeup @ July 28 2012,17:22) Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,01:26) wakeup Quote Terra. It means  you shall not SEE DEATH. How shall we not SEE death? ok, so next question “WHAT IS DEAD Terra. Now you are answering a question with a question. Death means when you stop living,when you give up your last breath. wakeup. wakeup if this is so ;then why scriptures is saying that God is the God of the living the God of Abraham ,Isaac ,and Jacob. this is the answer you seek;But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH please tell me how that works in your view that we stop breathing and we dead

Terricca…………Because God is SPIRIT and Spirit (IS) Life, God can not be the God of the dead, because they are “DEAD”. And as a result of being dead they have no Spirit (IN) them. When a person dies their Sprit returns to him who gave it and is Kept by Him , remember Jesus said “Father i commend My Spirit unto You. But Jesus the man died his Spirit was kept in tack by God who raised up his Body and put his spirit back into it, Just as all the restrictions of the dead will have happen to them. Spirit are in a “SENSE” like a record or cassette, They can be taken out of Player and they are no longer Hear . they can be placed on a shelf for a long time and then put back into a Player (i.e a Body) and played again. But when they are stored they are not performing . So it is when we die , that is why Paul said for we hope for the “resurrection” that will (WITNESS) the redemption of our “BODIES” . Just as a record cannot be played without a player. The potential is there but without a Body to animate it is useless. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Pierre……………………………….gene

[kerwin]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 28 2012,05:38)

Kerwin. Abraham could not have seen Jesus day in prophesy,because there are no books written in abrahams day.he was before all the prophets,exept Enoch,the 7th from Adam. So he must have seen it in a vision. wakeup.

Wakeup,

Scripture does call Abraham a prophet; though he is better known as a patriarch.

What I was addressing is that the prophets, including Abraham discerned when and what Jesus' day was.  I do not known how they saw it except that it was through the Spirit.

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 28 2012,20:35)

Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,10:30) Quote (Wakeup @ July 28 2012,17:22) Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,01:26) wakeup Quote Terra. It means  you shall not SEE DEATH. How shall we not SEE death? ok, so next question “WHAT IS DEAD Terra. Now you are answering a question with a question. Death means when you stop living,when you give up your last breath. wakeup. wakeup if this is so ;then why scriptures is saying that God is the God of the living the God of Abraham ,Isaac ,and Jacob. this is the answer you seek;But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH please tell me how that works in your view that we stop breathing and we dead Terricca…………Because God is SPIRIT and Spirit (IS) Life,  God can not be the God of the dead, because they are “DEAD”. And as a result of being dead they have no Spirit (IN) them.  When a person dies their Sprit returns to him who gave it and is Kept by Him , remember Jesus said “Father i commend My Spirit unto You. But Jesus the man died his Spirit was kept in tack by God who raised up his Body and put his spirit back into it, Just as all the restrictions of the dead will have happen to them.  Spirit are in a “SENSE”  like a record or cassette,  They can be taken out of Player and they are no longer Hear . they can be placed on a shelf for a long time and then put back into a Player (i.e a Body) and played again.  But when they are stored they are not performing . So it is when we die , that is why Paul said for we hope for the “resurrection” that will (WITNESS) the redemption of our “BODIES” . Just as a record cannot be played  without a player. The potential is there  but without a Body to animate it is useless.  IMO peace and love to you and yours Pierre……………………………….gene

gene

it is difficult for someone to understand those things that are only understood by the understanding of the meaning of scriptures that God as allowed us to understand those are the spirits,

the fact that God his a spirit as nothing to do with it because Jesus did not talk about spirit beings but about human BEINGS,ABRAHAM, ISAAC,JACOB,

IF THE SPIRIT HIS LIVE ,WHAT WOULD BE THAT SPIRIT

[Wakeup]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 28 2012,13:35)

Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,10:30) Quote (Wakeup @ July 28 2012,17:22) Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,01:26) wakeup Quote Terra. It means  you shall not SEE DEATH. How shall we not SEE death? ok, so next question “WHAT IS DEAD Terra. Now you are answering a question with a question. Death means when you stop living,when you give up your last breath. wakeup. wakeup if this is so ;then why scriptures is saying that God is the God of the living the God of Abraham ,Isaac ,and Jacob. this is the answer you seek;But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH please tell me how that works in your view that we stop breathing and we dead Terricca…………Because God is SPIRIT and Spirit (IS) Life,  God can not be the God of the dead, because they are “DEAD”. And as a result of being dead they have no Spirit (IN) them.  When a person dies their Sprit returns to him who gave it and is Kept by Him , remember Jesus said “Father i commend My Spirit unto You. But Jesus the man died his Spirit was kept in tack by God who raised up his Body and put his spirit back into it, Just as all the restrictions of the dead will have happen to them.  Spirit are in a “SENSE”  like a record or cassette,  They can be taken out of Player and they are no longer Hear . they can be placed on a shelf for a long time and then put back into a Player (i.e a Body) and played again.  But when they are stored they are not performing . So it is when we die , that is why Paul said for we hope for the “resurrection” that will (WITNESS) the redemption of our “BODIES” . Just as a record cannot be played  without a player. The potential is there  but without a Body to animate it is useless.  IMO peace and love to you and yours Pierre……………………………….gene

GeneB.

That cassette player and the cassette,is a real good one.
I like that.
If we are truly in Christ we shall not see death.
We know that the wicked has to suffer first before they die.
But with the true believers that will not be so.

They simply go to sleep and pass away; to them it is the same day that they will wake up,in the resurrection.
Even though time on earth has gone past many years.
The dead stop counting the days and years.

wakeup.

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