The Angel of the LORD

[kerwin]

T8;

You are inadvertently altering the passage when you replace “the nature of a servant” with “the nature of man.  Philippians 2:6-7 is clearly speaking of the inner nature of God as Jesus sees equality to God as something not to be grasped because of that nature.   Satan has the outer nature of an angel and yet does seek to be equal to God.  In addition “nature of a servant” speaks of the inner nature as both those with outer natures of an angel and of a human can have the inner nature of a servant.

The order of things seems to infer that all that was done previously to Jesus being “made” in the likeness of humanity but the word “made” is elsewhere translated “born” so it bears more looking into.

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ July 06 2012,10:30)

Quote (terraricca @ July 05 2012,11:21) Quote (Ed J @ July 05 2012,18:15) Quote (terraricca @ July 05 2012,10:21) Quote (Ed J @ July 05 2012,12:36) Hi Mike, here is what Phil.2:7-8 actually says… Phil 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.                                 God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj who is the “”himself “””???in that scripture You don't know? edj please answer the question and so I will answer you again “Himself” in Phil.2:7 refers to Jesus.

RIGHT

COULD YOU NOW TELL ME HOW AND WHY HE DID IT

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2012,12:21)

T8; You are inadvertently altering the passage when you replace “the nature of a servant” with “the nature of man.  Philippians 2:6-7 is clearly speaking of the inner nature of God as Jesus sees equality to God as something not to be grasped because of that nature.   Satan has the outer nature of an angel and yet does seek to be equal to God.  In addition “nature of a servant” speaks of the inner nature as both those with outer natures of an angel and of a human can have the inner nature of a servant. The order of things seems to infer that all that was done previously to Jesus being “made” in the likeness of humanity but the word “made” is elsewhere translated “born” so it bears more looking into.

Philippians 2:7
Context
NET ©
but emptied himself by taking on the form of a slave, 1 by looking like other men, 2 and by sharing in human nature. 3
NIV ©
but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
NASB ©
but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
NLT ©
He made himself nothing; he took the humble position of a slave and appeared in human form.
MSG ©
Not at all. When the time came, he set aside the privileges of deity and took on the status of a slave, became [human]!
BBE ©
But he made himself as nothing, taking the form of a servant, being made like men;
NRSV ©
but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form,
NKJV ©
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
KJV
But
made
(0) himself
of no reputation
(5656)_, and took upon him
(5631) the form
of a servant
_, and was made
(5637) in
the likeness
of men
_:
NASB ©
but emptied
Himself
, taking
the form
of a bond-servant
, and being
made
in the likeness
of men
.
GREEK
alla

CONJeauton

F-3ASMekenwsen
(5656)
V-AAI-3Smorfhn

N-ASFdoulou

N-GSMlabwn
(5631)
V-2AAP-NSMen

PREPomoiwmati

N-DSNanyrwpwn

N-GPMgenomenov
(5637)
V-2ADP-NSMkai

CONJschmati

N-DSN

STUDY SCRIPTURES IS NOT ALWAYS ASKING QUESTIONS BUT RESEARCHED

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ July 06 2012,06:57)

Quote (Ed J @ July 06 2012,10:30) Quote (terraricca @ July 05 2012,11:21) Quote (Ed J @ July 05 2012,18:15) Quote (terraricca @ July 05 2012,10:21) Quote (Ed J @ July 05 2012,12:36) Hi Mike, here is what Phil.2:7-8 actually says… Phil 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.                                 God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj who is the “”himself “””???in that scripture You don't know? edj please answer the question and so I will answer you again “Himself” in Phil.2:7 refers to Jesus. RIGHT COULD YOU NOW TELL ME HOW AND WHY HE DID IT

Hi Pierre,

How and why he did what?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi Pierre: I assume you mean the crucifixion.

How: by antagonizing the Sanhedrin to want him killed.
Why: to separate the spirit of Lucifer from the God Spirit.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ July 06 2012,14:16)

Quote (terraricca @ July 06 2012,06:57) Quote (Ed J @ July 06 2012,10:30) Quote (terraricca @ July 05 2012,11:21) Quote (Ed J @ July 05 2012,18:15) Quote (terraricca @ July 05 2012,10:21) Quote (Ed J @ July 05 2012,12:36) Hi Mike, here is what Phil.2:7-8 actually says… Phil 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.                                 God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj who is the “”himself “””???in that scripture You don't know? edj please answer the question and so I will answer you again “Himself” in Phil.2:7 refers to Jesus. RIGHT COULD YOU NOW TELL ME HOW AND WHY HE DID IT Hi Pierre, How and why he did what? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

ed

Phil 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him
the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself,
and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

what is it that Christ does by himself ,and how did he do it

[Ed J]

Hi Pierre, I explained in this post…

Quote (Ed J @ July 06 2012,07:20)

Hi Pierre: I assume you mean the crucifixion. How: by antagonizing the Sanhedrin to want him killed. Why: to separate the spirit of Lucifer from the God Spirit. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Proclaimer]

Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2012,08:21)

T8; You are inadvertently altering the passage when you replace “the nature of a servant” with “the nature of man.   The order of things seems to infer that all that was done previously to Jesus being “made” in the likeness of humanity but the word “made” is elsewhere translated “born” so it bears more looking into.

being made in human likeness…

Is that clear enough?

If he was made in the likeness of humans, then he has human nature does he not?

[kerwin]

Quote (t8 @ July 06 2012,05:41)

Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2012,08:21) T8; You are inadvertently altering the passage when you replace “the nature of a servant” with “the nature of man.   The order of things seems to infer that all that was done previously to Jesus being “made” in the likeness of humanity but the word “made” is elsewhere translated “born” so it bears more looking into. being made in human likeness… Is that clear enough? If he was made in the likeness of humans, then he has human nature does he not?

T8;

Jesus was made with a human nature but that does not justify substituting that fact for the fact he chose to serve God. I assure you that not all humans willingly serve Jehovah. The inner human nature is the flesh nature as it falls short of the godly nature. It is the godly nature that compels one to humble themselves and take on the nature of a servant. The outer nature counts for nothing.

Jehovah is our Creator and thus he chose to make Jesus in the likeness of humanity and not in the likeness of the Messengers. His reason for that choice is that it is humans that Jesus aids and not Messengers.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2012,05:47)

Actually Kerwin, I have some better questions for you: When was Jesus existing as something other than a human being so that he had to be (your words) “made by Jehovah in the likeness of humanity”? And what was he existing as before he had to be “made by Jehovah in the likeness of humanity”?

Mike;

I do not believe he had to be anything as the same word is used with Abraham in the statement “before Abraham was made, I am”.

I do know that Jehovah chose to make Jesus in the likeness of humanity and not Messengers; as it is humans he helps and not Messengers.

[mikeboll64]

I have no clue what you are talking about with your Abraham reference, but I read your answer to my post and to t8's post, and it seems you are missing a step:

Was existing in the form of God > was made in the likeness of a human being.

Your claim that Jehovah made him from nothing into the likeness of a human being seems to ignore Phil 2:6, where we're told Jesus was existing in the form of God before being made into a human being.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 07 2012,05:12)

I have no clue what you are talking about with your Abraham reference, but I read your answer to my post and to t8's post, and it seems you are missing a step: Was existing in the form of God > was made in the likeness of a human being. Your claim that Jehovah made him from nothing into the likeness of a human being seems to ignore Phil 2:6, where we're told Jesus was existing in the form of God before being made into a human being.

Mike,

Did Abraham exist before he was “made” of woman?

Do you believe that a person can have the inner form of God and the outer likeness of humanity?

[mikeboll64]

Kerwin, you don't seem to be addressing the point here. Jesus was existing in the form of God, [but then] was made into the likeness of a human being.

Where is that said about Abraham?

Your last question is getting into philosophy, and I'd rather not go there unless the scriptures clearly answer the question you asked. If not, we would just be wasting time speculating anyway, right?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 07 2012,06:05)

Kerwin, you don't seem to be addressing the point here.  Jesus was existing in the form of God, [but then] was made into the likeness of a human being. Where is that said about Abraham? Your last question is getting into philosophy, and I'd rather not go there unless the scriptures clearly answer the question you asked.  If not, we would just be wasting time speculating anyway, right?

Mike;

As for Abraham; I did not know that there was any doubt he was born of woman.  

If my memory serves me well then the same Greek ancient Greek word is used in relation to the “made” in Philippians 2:7.

Christianity is the philosophy of God.  I do not know what you think a philosophy is but the people of that time saw it as a way of life.  An example of this is stoicism

I believe you were speaking of speculative matters that cannot be tested for either truth or falseness.

The Scriptures does answer the question if you understand the words.

Does the Spirit have likeness of the inner form of God?

Does the new man?

Does Scripture teach that their are humans with the Spirit?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2012,22:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2012,05:47) Actually Kerwin, I have some better questions for you: When was Jesus existing as something other than a human being so that he had to be (your words) “made by Jehovah in the likeness of humanity”? And what was he existing as before he had to be “made by Jehovah in the likeness of humanity”? Mike; I do not believe he had to be anything as the same word is used with Abraham in the statement “before Abraham was made, I am”.   I do know that Jehovah chose to make Jesus in the likeness of humanity and not Messengers; as it is humans he helps and not Messengers.

k

Quote

I do not believe

is this you version of the truth of the word of God

I was always taught that we have to believe what scriptures says ,not WHAT WE MAY BELIEVE OR NOT ,THIS HIS IRRELEVANT,TO ANYONE THAT BELIEVE IN SCRIPTURES.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2012,17:57)

T8; Jesus was made with a human nature but that does not justify substituting that fact for the fact he chose to serve God. I assure you that not all humans willingly serve Jehovah. The inner human nature is the flesh nature as it falls short of the godly nature. It is the godly nature that compels one to humble themselves and take on the nature of a servant. The outer nature counts for nothing. Jehovah is our Creator and thus he chose to make Jesus in the likeness of humanity and not in the likeness of the Messengers. His reason for that choice is that it is humans that Jesus aids and not Messengers.

Sorry I am not following you.

What part of your post disproves that Jesus existed in the form of God or with divine nature, emptied himself and came as a man/being with human nature.

Nothing from what I can tell.

The scripture stands.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2012,20:22)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 07 2012,06:05) Kerwin, you don't seem to be addressing the point here.  Jesus was existing in the form of God, [but then] was made into the likeness of a human being. Where is that said about Abraham? Mike; As for Abraham; I did not know that there was any doubt he was born of woman.

Where was Abraham said to have existed in the form of God before being made into the likeness of a human being?

Your words about Abraham do bring up another point, though:

Galatians 4:4
But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law,

If there was never any doubt that Jesus was ONLY born of a woman, then why did Paul write what he did in the above verse?  The only reason to specify that the Son God sent was born of a woman is if there was another existence Jesus was having before being born of a woman.  Otherwise, Paul would have been subject to people like you saying, “I did not know that there was any doubt he was born of woman, so why mention it?”

To which Paul would have answered:  Jesus was existing in the form of God BEFORE being born of a woman.

And THAT, Kerwin, remains the point of the discussion: Jesus was existing in the form of God BEFORE being made into the likeness of a human being.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2012,05:21)

T8; You are inadvertently altering the passage when you replace “the nature of a servant” with “the nature of man.  Philippians 2:6-7 is clearly speaking of the inner nature of God as Jesus sees equality to God as something not to be grasped because of that nature.   Satan has the outer nature of an angel and yet does seek to be equal to God.  In addition “nature of a servant” speaks of the inner nature as both those with outer natures of an angel and of a human can have the inner nature of a servant. The order of things seems to infer that all that was done previously to Jesus being “made” in the likeness of humanity but the word “made” is elsewhere translated “born” so it bears more looking into.

Kerwin……….You have it right Brother. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2012,09:17)

Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2012,05:21) T8; You are inadvertently altering the passage when you replace “the nature of a servant” with “the nature of man.  Philippians 2:6-7 is clearly speaking of the inner nature of God as Jesus sees equality to God as something not to be grasped because of that nature.   Satan has the outer nature of an angel and yet does seek to be equal to God.  In addition “nature of a servant” speaks of the inner nature as both those with outer natures of an angel and of a human can have the inner nature of a servant. The order of things seems to infer that all that was done previously to Jesus being “made” in the likeness of humanity but the word “made” is elsewhere translated “born” so it bears more looking into. Kerwin……….You have it right Brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

GENE

what is an INNER NATURE ?

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote

Where was Abraham said to have existed in the form of God before being made into the likeness of a human being?

I was adressing the fact that Scripture testified Abraham was ginomai as was Jesus ginomai in the likeness of men. Jesus was also ginomai of woman and ginomai under the Law.

As to your question Abraham is only credited with being in the form of God while Jesus and the new man both exist in the form of God. Humanity was created in the form of God but chased after many inventions.

Jesus outer man is the Son of man and his inner man is the Son of God.

Jesus posed this question:

Luke 20:44
King James Version (KJV)

44 David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?

The answer is also in Scripture.

Romans 1:3
King James Version (KJV)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Quote

And THAT, Kerwin, remains the point of the discussion: Jesus was existing in the form of God BEFORE being made into the likeness of a human being.

If you are only go by the order of things in the sentence it does appear that Jesus chose to become a srvant before being ginomai in the likeness of humanity. One possible flaw to such reasoning is that Ginomai is a word with multiple meanings.

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