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Dk…..I heard something on this subject a few weeks ago that made some sense. This person said that the word Heaven should be rendered Heavens and plural word not a singular, and he said that we are the heavens where God dwells, the heavenly city whose builder and maker is God, that descends from the heavens. Anyway through i would just throw that out I am not sure though.
peace ,…..gene
Quote (gollamudi @ July 12 2008,21:21) Hi brother Seeking,
Do you believe the immortality of souls of men?
I guess I do.Jesus told this story
Quote The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. I know many try to say it's allegorical but I see no reason to believe this (unless you need it to be that way to fit your doctrine).
Quote “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.” Consciousness after death and prior to resurrection. Once again some move the comma after today (since there were no commas in original), others say it will feel like “today” but I disagree.
Quote I saw under the altar the souls is another verse showing an active soul prior to resurrection.
However I do believe that that God will destroy both body and soul in the lake of fire, so I do not believe the unsaved have an immortal soul.
Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ July 12 2008,13:09) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2008,04:33) Hi ST,
True.
But what of the spirit?
The heavenly body has no relationship to the spirit of a man.
Nick,
I believe that our heavenly body will still include our spirit. Is there some scripture I'm not aware of that leads you to believe otherwise?
hmmnQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 13 2008,03:47) Dk…..I heard something on this subject a few weeks ago that made some sense. This person said that the word Heaven should be rendered Heavens and plural word not a singular, and he said that we are the heavens where God dwells, the heavenly city whose builder and maker is God, that descends from the heavens. Anyway through i would just throw that out I am not sure though. peace ,…..gene
HmmmnnnHi ST,
As men like Jesus our spirits leave at our death and return to God.[ecc12]
He was raised in the Spirit of God and we in him follow the firstborn from the dead.
If we are in Christ we are alive in the Spirit of God with the men of old and the servants of God.Nick,
I assume that the verse your referring to is 7 For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.Once again I assume the statement “the spirit will return to God” that you interpret it to mean we lose our spirit never to return but that same logic would dictate our dust will return to earth never to return.
I believe that our spirit does return to God, soul attached, then is reunited with resurrected body when the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
Wm
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2008,08:17) Hi ST,
As men like Jesus our spirits leave at our death and return to God.[ecc12]
He was raised in the Spirit of God and we in him follow the firstborn from the dead.
If we are in Christ we are alive in the Spirit of God with the men of old and the servants of God.
Nick!
Paul says there is a Spirit in men 1 Corinth. 2:11
This Spirit is nothing more then our mind, our intellect. It is our capacity to understand the physical things of this world.
To understand the things of God, meaning spiritual things, we have to have God's Holy Spirit.
God raised up Jesus from the death by His Holy Spirit, not in His Spirit.
The spirit that goes back to God at our death is God's Holy Spirit, who gave it to us.
Our Spirit that Paul talked about remains unconscious at our death, until we are resurrected with a new body.
If you believe that our Spirit is an immortal Soul , then you will have a hard time explaining the true meaning of dozens of other Scriptures.
Peace and Love Mr. and Mrs,Hi Irene,
Does our mind, our intellect return to God when we die? Is it written?
What about our life?Scripture tells us our spirit gives us life.
Hi dk.
I had said in a previous post that I would reply at a later time, well here I am. After much thought, I have decided to give a very brief comment instead of a lengthy one that I had intended. The reason being, I think all that frequent this site already know that I believe in the savation of “All”. So instead of restating my views again, I will just post a few scriptures that I feel explain my position.
First, in the book of Isaiah:
45:23 For to Me shall bow every Knee,
And every tongue shall acclaim to Alueim.46:10 Saying, “ALL” My councel shall be confirmed,
And all My desire will I do.
(who can deny that God will do what He desires?)
1Cor.15:22
For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.
Eph.2:10
For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.
1Tim.4:9-11
Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind,
11 especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.1Cor.8:5-7
…nevertheless for us there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is.
2.Cor.5:18-19
18 Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation.
1Tim.2:4
for this is ideal and welcome in the sight of our Saviour, God,
Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.There are more, but at this time I feel this is enough.
Thanks for letting me voice my opinion, and it is only my opinion, as one that does not know the whole of Gods' truth.
Jerry.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2008,13:15) Hi Irene,
Does our mind, our intellect return to God when we die? Is it written?
What about our life?Scripture tells us our spirit gives us life.
Nick! Before you answer make sure you read what was written.
Mr.Hi Irene,
Our spirit remains unconscious?
Our spirit has returned to God[ecc12]
You are confusing soul with spirit.Quote (seekingtruth @ July 13 2008,05:15) Quote (gollamudi @ July 12 2008,21:21) Hi brother Seeking,
Do you believe the immortality of souls of men?
I guess I do.Jesus told this story
Quote The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. I know many try to say it's allegorical but I see no reason to believe this (unless you need it to be that way to fit your doctrine).
Quote “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.” Consciousness after death and prior to resurrection. Once again some move the comma after today (since there were no commas in original), others say it will feel like “today” but I disagree.
Quote I saw under the altar the souls is another verse showing an active soul prior to resurrection.
However I do believe that that God will destroy both body and soul in the lake of fire, so I do not believe the unsaved have an immortal soul.
Wm
Hi brother Seeking,
Thanks for your caring reply to my post on immortality of human souls. I do agree with you on some points that spirit of men returns to God. But you seem to say that soul is attached to the spirit, I don't see any scriptural proof for that. I can only see when the first man Adam became living soul when breath of God came into him. I can understand the 'breath' as the spirit of Adam which came from God who is the source of all spirits. But no scriptural proof for God being the source of souls. I believe that the soul is the result of body and spirit. When a person dies his spirit goes to God and his body dies. Spirit is the main factor which gives life to souls. Without spirit the body is dead I also tend to think that the soul also may goes into silence , no memory of its own since the life or the spirit is not available with the body. You also seem to say that only believers' souls are immortal and not unbeleivers, again no scriptural proof. Unbelievers also rise again in second resurrection for judgement. Yes I can agree that their body and soul will be destroyed in hell fire which will be the second death.Hi brother Nick,
You are going to other extreme and believing that we don't receive back even our spirits when we will be reurrected. How can Jesus is individual being from God if he has not received his own spirit back to him at his resurrection?Please do share more, I want to clear my doubt on this subject.
Thanks
AdamAdam,
Quote But you seem to say that soul is attached to the spirit, I don't see any scriptural proof for that.
The scripture I have based that on is:Quote For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow;
To me if its being divided then it must be attached.You also stated
Quote
You also seem to say that only believers' souls are immortal and not unbelievers, again no scriptural proof.
If the scriptures say only God can destroy a soul then to me it indicates near immortality. As to “only believers being immortal, that's not quite what I said, what I meant was the souls of those going into the lake of fire are destroyed, thus they are not immortal.I'm just trying to put it all together based on what the scriptures indicate, if I missed one please let me know.
Thank you – Wm
Hi brother Seeking,
Thanks again for your care in replying my post. Now I can get your views and beliefs based on certain scriptures. I also quoted from my beliefs on some scriptures only that Adam became living soul when the spirit from God entered him. I don't see any existence of soul without the spirit and body. Let us wait and see for other's views on this.
Peace to you
AdamHi ST,
In the first resurrection we do not again have our old flesh body but a new heavenly body in the image of the man from heaven. The old tent is folded up and we are clothed anew.[1Cor15] Jesus told us of the mansions where we will be with him in Jn 14. It does not say that we differ from the first Adam whose spirit as with all men returns to the Father of spirits, God. Jesus too gave up his spirit
Mt27.50. Our hope is of resurrection in the life of the Holy Spirit of God as with Jesus[acts2].Adam,
I've wondered if demons are souls with neither body or spirit giving them no means to interface to either the corporeal or spiritual realm which is why they possess both animals and humans to have some means of interfacing with reality.Don't stone me yet, this is just speculation on my part.
Wm
Nick,
While I agree we recieve a heavenly body I believe if Adam had eaten of the tree of life he would have had this same heavenly body.Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
If we have died I believe God will resurrect our current body and same as if we had eaten of the tree of life He will change us. If we are of those caught up together then we will only need to be changed (resurrection not required).
Job 19:26 And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God; 27 I myself will see him with my own eyes—I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!
To me this supports my position that it will be this body improved, not a new one (otherwise why would Jesus still have scars?).
My opinion – Wm
Hi St,
Interesting thoughts thanks.Mt5
8″Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.Do the pure in heart SEE God now?
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