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I wanted to share a vision I had in 1974 during a dream. My father had recently died very suddenly, and I was only 18, a new believer in Christ. I was having n ightmares nightly and finally I asked God in prayer to please give me peace about my father and to please say “goodbye” for me. That very same night I had a dream that was unlike any dream I have ever had – it was a vision and an answer from God. I was on a hill top and standing with me was a very very tall being–I believe it was an angel. This angel and I were looking over the most beautiful valley–vivid colors, flowers, grass, meadows, hills, it went on what seemed like far, far in the distance. I felt we were on the outskirts of a very special place. The angel did not speak to me in audible words, but spoke to me in a kind of understanding type of language–I understood that I was standing outside of heaven….at the beautiful lands just outside the gate (although I never saw any gate….I think we were too far away. I understood from the angel that I was not to take any steps forward, but that he was showing me this to tell me that my father was there, and he was with God and that my message to my father had been delivered, and there was peace, forgiveness and hope. I felt so loved, so at peace in that moment, at that place. I also understood that this angel knew me very well, that he was an old friend—perhaps my guardian angel (someday I will find out). We lingered there for a short while and I awoke. I never had nightmares about my father again and I know someday we will be all together in heaven which is a very real place.
I'm curious how many have had dreams or visions.
Personally I only had one brief vision. I had it within a year of when I first turned to the Lord (over 25 years ago). It happened as I was driving home from a business trip, the associate I was traveling with fell asleep. As I glanced down at the radio I suddenly found myself in almost a dream like association with myself.
I was standing waist high in water (a river I believe), in a wilderness type setting. I was proclaiming truths to some who came to listen. These were truths heather-forth unheard of at least up to that time. I then found myself in another location with the same circumstances. During this time I knew things surrounding the vision and knew that I was repeating this at different locations over a wide range.
At that point I realized I was still staring at the radio (all the time I had been driving 65 mph not looking at the road, for how long I don't know). It was not a day dream it was unlike anything I've experienced before or since. I prayed for years trying to understand what it all meant but I still do not have a clue. If anyone has an interpretation I would love to hear it.
Has this happened to others?
Wm
Hi ST,
The river of the Spirit is meant to be eventually beyond our ability to reach the bottom of as in Ezekiel 47. So to be led by the Spirit is to be carried by that flow as also with the wind. Perhaps you were being shown you needed you go out deeper and trust more so that God could use you more?Simply put..Who goes to Heaven? If you say nobody..then please show with scripture…if you say everybody..please show with scripture..if you only some..please show with scripture..
I am undecided..but here are the scriptures I am praying on:Philippians 3:20…20But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Hebrews 11:39-40… 39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
John 14:2…2In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
2 Corinthians 12:1-4… 1I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell. (yes i know this is a vision)
Galatians 4:26..26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
Hebrews 12:22… 22But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
Matthew 5:12…12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Colossians 3:24…24since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.
Revelation 11:18…18The nations were angry; and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and great—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”Galatians 5:21…21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Some are saved, some are not….
Joh 3:14-15 ESV And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, (15) that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:18 ESV Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Joh 10:25-26 ESV Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, (26) but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock.
1Co 11:32 ESV But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined[h] so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
2Th 2:9-12 ESV The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, (10) and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. (11) Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, (12) in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Pe 2:6 ESV if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
Quote (epistemaniac @ July 12 2008,07:49) Some are saved, some are not…. Joh 3:14-15 ESV And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, (15) that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:18 ESV Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Joh 10:25-26 ESV Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, (26) but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock.
1Co 11:32 ESV But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined[h] so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
2Th 2:9-12 ESV The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, (10) and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. (11) Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, (12) in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Pe 2:6 ESV if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
I agree
But who, if anybody, goes to heaven?
I should add that all deserve condemnation, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and the wages of sin is death. We are, as far as our natural, outside of being in Christ, in our natural state is concerned, children of wrath. This is who we are outside of Christ, deserving of God's wrath, dead dead dead in our sins and trespasses.
Eph 2:1-3 ESV And you were dead in the trespasses and sins (2) in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience– (3) among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body[a] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
The fact that any are saved at all is totally due to the goodness and mercy of God. He does not owe salvation to anyone, all get justice, some receive mercy.Those who are saved are so because God saves them, He initiates a change in a person's heart, well, in fact, he takes out their heart of stone and gives them a heart of flesh
Eze 11:19-20 ESV And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, (20) that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God.”
Its pretty gloomy state of affairs really, for all outside of Christ… but God… BUT God….. but GOD!!!
Eph 2:4-9 ESV But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, (5) even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ–by grace you have been saved– (6) and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, (7) so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. (8) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (9) not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
In this passages I see that it is God who makes us alive, we were dead but God made us alive, and He did this purely out of grace, in other words, faith itself… in case anyone misses this crucial point FAITH ITSELF is a gift from God, no one would believe without it, and only those who have it will be saved, the rest are condemned, as Jesus said, all who believe are not condemned, all who do not believe are condemned.
So man is not saved as a result of his or her running or willing, rather they are saved as a result of the will of God, based on election, ie those predestinated to life will be saved, all others are passed over and left in their sins to suffer the consequences for their own sin..
Rom 9:10-24 ESV And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, (11) though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad–in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call– (12) she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” (13) As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
(14) What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! (15) For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” (16) So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” (18) So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
(19) You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” (21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use? (22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory– (24) even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?Hi dk.
A very interesting post, this should get a lot of divisive reaction. A couple of good ones to start by epistemaniac, very deeply thought out with some good scriptures, well done.
I will post my beliefs when time permits, and I'll have to very carefully chose my words for this one.Blessings.
DK
Personally I believe that those born again their soul/spirit goes to Heaven when they die to await the resurrection of their body. This I believe happens when the Lord returns to set up His Kingdom on earthQuote
I Cor 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
After that I believe our “home” (I believe we may visit heaven) is on earth, first for 1000 yearsQuote
Rev20:6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Then at the end of the 1000 years all the dead will be resurrected and through the sheep/goat judgment some will enter into the Kingdom (now on earth) the remainder go to destructionQuote
Rev 20:11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Finally God moves on earth with ManQuote
Rev 21:1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”Personally it is at this point I believe
Quote I Cor 15:28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
My opinion WmHi ST,
The soul is not the spirit of man.
They can be divided.
Heb4
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.Hi DK:
Quote Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.Quote 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these wordsThe body of Christ includes who were walking in obedience in the OT and NT.
Quote Rom 4:16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, Quote Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. God Bless
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2008,04:33) Hi ST,
True.
But what of the spirit?
The heavenly body has no relationship to the spirit of a man.
Nick,
I believe that our heavenly body will still include our spirit. Is there some scripture I'm not aware of that leads you to believe otherwise?Quote (epistemaniac @ July 12 2008,08:03) I should add that all deserve condemnation, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and the wages of sin is death. We are, as far as our natural, outside of being in Christ, in our natural state is concerned, children of wrath. This is who we are outside of Christ, deserving of God's wrath, dead dead dead in our sins and trespasses. Eph 2:1-3 ESV And you were dead in the trespasses and sins (2) in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience– (3) among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body[a] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
The fact that any are saved at all is totally due to the goodness and mercy of God. He does not owe salvation to anyone, all get justice, some receive mercy.Those who are saved are so because God saves them, He initiates a change in a person's heart, well, in fact, he takes out their heart of stone and gives them a heart of flesh
Eze 11:19-20 ESV And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, (20) that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God.”
Its pretty gloomy state of affairs really, for all outside of Christ… but God… BUT God….. but GOD!!!
Eph 2:4-9 ESV But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, (5) even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ–by grace you have been saved– (6) and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, (7) so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. (8) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (9) not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
In this passages I see that it is God who makes us alive, we were dead but God made us alive, and He did this purely out of grace, in other words, faith itself… in case anyone misses this crucial point FAITH ITSELF is a gift from God, no one would believe without it, and only those who have it will be saved, the rest are condemned, as Jesus said, all who believe are not condemned, all who do not believe are condemned.
So man is not saved as a result of his or her running or willing, rather they are saved as a result of the will of God, based on election, ie those predestinated to life will be saved, all others are passed over and left in their sins to suffer the consequences for their own sin..
Rom 9:10-24 ESV And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, (11) though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad–in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call– (12) she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” (13) As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
(14) What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! (15) For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” (16) So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” (18) So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
(19) You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” (21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use? (22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory– (24) even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
Amen brother ….good Post…this should give the fear mongers something to think about.peace gene
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