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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,14:56) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 1:18 NIV
Keith,I am really starting to feel sorry for you. You have truly been blinded by the god of this age.
Look at the scripture you yourself posted. NO ONE HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME. Did people see Jesus? Okay then, end of story. He CAN'T be God if people have seen him. Open your eyes, Keith.
Your scripture also mentions a “begotten god”. Hmmmm…………is God Almighty BEGOTTEN?
Keith, knowing as you do that “theos” refers to a “mighty one”, this scripture should be easy. It says that no one has EVER seen The Mighty One, but the one whom He begot, himself a mighty one, has made that Mighty One known to us.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 10 2011,20:53) You answer is right there in your own words. If Jesus is LIKE the Father, then Jesus is NOT the Father, right?
Of course he is not the Father, but Father does not “identify” his nature does it?You are spinning because you are not answering the quesiton.
Mike tell us in what way IN HIS NATURE Jesus is not like the Father?
Are you in nature not human like your Father?
I feel sorry for you rejecting that Jesus is the “Only Begotten (Monogenes Son)” but instead to you he is a son or a god like every other being that you call gods.
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 11 2011,21:50) Btw, why don't you use the Strong definition of “monogenes”?
Strong says: 3439. monogenes mon-og-en-ace' from 3441 and 1096; only-born, i.e. sole:–only (begotten, child).
MikeI am using Strongs…
Strong's G3439 – monogenēs
1) single of its kind, only
a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
What difference does it make, he is still the “Only Begotten Son of God” meaning there is no other kind like him for he is the Godkind.
Jesus is not in a class of being by himself is he?
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 11 2011,11:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,06:49)
If he is what you say then he cannot be “the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being.”
Hi WJ,Your radiance example is a Good one, we can work with that!
Is the radiance of the “SUN”, the entire sun? (Please answer)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi WJ,Are you not wanting to discuss the example that you gave?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,12:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 10 2011,20:53) Your answer is right there in your own words. If Jesus is LIKE the Father, then Jesus is NOT the Father, right?
Of course he is not the Father, but Father does not “identify” his nature does it?You are spinning because you are not answering the quesiton.
Mike tell us in what way IN HIS NATURE Jesus is not like the Father?
Are you in nature not human like your Father?
I feel sorry for you rejecting that Jesus is the “Only Begotten (Monogenes Son)” but instead to you he is a son or a god like every other being that you call gods.
WJ
Well for one Keith, Jesus was BEGOTTEN while his God was not. Jesus was not originally created immortal while his
God is from everlasting to everlasting.But let's play your game and see who wins, okay? Even if I said that Jesus's nature is in EVERY SINGLE WAY EXACTLY LIKE THE FATHER'S, you still lose. Why? Because of that little word “LIKE”. If Jesus's nature is LIKE the Father's nature, then Jesus is NOT the Father. Up to this point, we agree, right?
But when you consider that our only true God is none other than THE FATHER, then Jesus being LIKE the Father is the same as saying Jesus is LIKE God. And in order for Jesus to be LIKE God, Jesus can't BE God.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,12:47) Mike I am using Strongs…
Strong's G3439 – monogenēs
1) single of its kind, only
a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
Found Here!
No Keith,What you're using is a compliation of Strong, Thayer's Lexicon and Brown and Driver's (?) Lexicon.
This is the standard compilation used by NETNotes, Blue Letter, Online Bible Study Tools, and others now.
But you can find the actual Strong definition on the Blue Letter site. It is a separate listing on the home page. If you type the Strong # into the Strong Lexicon box on the homepage, it will take you Here.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,07:56) You say Jesus is a Spirit being like the Father I agree that the Spirit of Jesus is the Spirit of God. But are you saying that angels, and men who are spirits “ARE” the same “Spirit” God is? Are the angels spirit the Spirit of God? Is your Spirit the Spirit of God? Because Jesus Spirit is the Spirit of God the Spirit of Christ.
Actually that is what you are probably saying WJ.Because you can't distinguish between identity and nature, therefore you have to assume that all adams are Adam beacuse they are the same in your way of thinking and all theos are YHWH.
Of course reality disagrees with you WJ.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 13 2011,06:47) Jesus is not in a class of being by himself is he?
Whatever class of being he is, we will be given bodies like his one and he will call us brothers.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,12:47) What difference does it make, he is still the “Only Begotten Son of God” meaning there is no other kind like him for he is the Godkind.
The difference is that Jesus was “yalad”, or “brought forth FROM” his God. He was begotten by God, and it's both sad and maddening that the trinitarians are now trying to eliminate the word “begotten” in reference to Jesus from the scriptures because they don't want to give anyone the impression that Jesus came FROM God the way any son who is begotten comes FROM his father. THAT'S the difference.mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 10 2011,20:53) Your answer is right there in your own words. If Jesus is LIKE the Father, then Jesus is NOT the Father, right? Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,12:40) Of course he is not the Father Okay Keith, we're half way home.
Keith, who does John 17:3 and 1 Cor 8:6 specifically say our only God is?
Please give a DIRECT answer.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 13 2011,22:38) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,12:47) Mike I am using Strongs…
Strong's G3439 – monogenēs
1) single of its kind, only
a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
Found Here!
No Keith,What you're using is a compliation of Strong, Thayer's Lexicon and Brown and Driver's (?) Lexicon.
This is the standard compilation used by NETNotes, Blue Letter, Online Bible Study Tools, and others now.
But you can find the actual Strong definition on the Blue Letter site. It is a separate listing on the home page. If you type the Strong # into the Strong Lexicon box on the homepage, it will take you Here.
mike
It doesn't matter, it still means Jesus is the “Only” Begotten Son” meaning there are no others totally like him.So to you that must mean that Jesus is neither man or God but he is some sort of half-breed, a god in a class of his own.
Jesus is the Only creature in the Universe that has a kind of his own according to you.
WJ
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 14 2011,14:48) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 13 2011,06:47) Jesus is not in a class of being by himself is he?
Whatever class of being he is, we will be given bodies like his one and he will call us brothers.
Amen T8!Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 15 2011,03:28) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 13 2011,22:38) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,12:47) Mike I am using Strongs…
Strong's G3439 – monogenēs
1) single of its kind, only
a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
Found Here!
No Keith,What you're using is a compliation of Strong, Thayer's Lexicon and Brown and Driver's (?) Lexicon.
This is the standard compilation used by NETNotes, Blue Letter, Online Bible Study Tools, and others now.
But you can find the actual Strong definition on the Blue Letter site. It is a separate listing on the home page. If you type the Strong # into the Strong Lexicon box on the homepage, it will take you Here.
mike
It doesn't matter, it still means Jesus is the “Only” Begotten Son” meaning there are no others totally like him.So to you that must mean that Jesus is neither man or God but he is some sort of half-breed, a god in a class of his own.
Jesus is the Only creature in the Universe that has a kind of his own according to you.
WJ
Keith,1. The seventy Jewish scholars (LXX) translated the Hebrew “yachid” (only) with the Greek “monogenes.” All of the ancient translations translated it as “only” or “one of a kind.” The KJV and Strong's departed from this. Almost all modern translations have returned to it historical meaning.
2. Mike ignores that the Strong's says that the derivative of “genes” which is “ginomai” has a WIDE LATITUDE of meaning.
Jack
Questions and points awaiting replies among the diversions:
1. Look at the scripture you yourself posted. NO ONE HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME. Did people see Jesus? Okay then, end of story. He CAN'T be God if people have seen him. Open your eyes, Keith.
2. Your scripture also mentions a “begotten god”. Hmmmm…………is God Almighty BEGOTTEN?
3. But let's play your game and see who wins, okay? Even if I said that Jesus' nature is in EVERY SINGLE WAY EXACTLY LIKE THE FATHER'S, you still lose. Why? Because of that little word “LIKE”. If Jesus' nature is LIKE the Father's nature, then Jesus is NOT the Father. Up to this point, we agree, right?
But when you consider that our only true God is none other than THE FATHER, then Jesus being LIKE the Father is the same as saying Jesus is LIKE God. And in order for Jesus to be LIKE God, Jesus can't BE God.
4. The difference is that Jesus was “yalad”, or “brought forth FROM” his God. He was begotten by God, and it's both sad and maddening that the trinitarians are now trying to eliminate the word “begotten” in reference to Jesus from the scriptures because they don't want to give anyone the impression that Jesus came FROM God the way any son who is begotten comes FROM his father. THAT'S the difference.
5.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 10 2011,20:53) Your answer is right there in your own words. If Jesus is LIKE the Father, then Jesus is NOT the Father, right? Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2011,12:40) Of course he is not the Father Okay Keith, we're half way home.
Keith, who does John 17:3 and 1 Cor 8:6 specifically say our only God is?
Please give a DIRECT answer.
Is anyone going to actually ADDRESS these points DIRECTLY and WITHOUT diversion?
mike
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 14 2011,14:46) Mike ignores that the Strong's says that the derivative of “genes” which is “ginomai” has a WIDE LATITUDE of meaning.
Jack, not only did I post EXACTLY what Strong says about monogenes, but I gave the direct link.You can choose to accept it, or not.
mike
BUMP AS A REMINDER:
TO ALL,
See for yourselves that my defininitions on this thread are supported by ancient thought. So I have given lexographers, philosophers and now ancient thought. All the Arains have given in reply is unscholary like mockery.
Quote Personhood in the Trinity does not match the common Western understanding of “person” as used in the English language—it does not imply an “individual, self-actualized center of free will and conscious activity.”[17] To the ancients, personhood “was in some sense individual, but always in community as well.”[17]p.186 In the Trinity doctrine, each person is understood as having the same IDENTICAL essence or nature, not merely similar naturesThe being of Christ can be said to have dominated theological discussions and councils of the church through the 7th century, and resulted in the Nicene and Constantinopolitan creeds, the Ephesine Formula of 431 AD, and the Christological statement of the Epistola Dogmatica of Leo I to Flavianus. From these councils, the following christological doctrines were condemned as heresies: Ebionism, Docetism, Basilidianism, Alogism or Artemonism, Patripassianism, Sabellianism, Arianism, Apollinarianism, Nestorianism, Eutychianism, Monophysitism, and Monothelitism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrinityHere it is again:
To the ancients, personhood “was in some sense individual, but always in community as well.”
Ancient thought is on the Trinitarian's side. God could not have always had Personhood if He had not always a Companion by His side!
THE WORD WAS ALWAYS THAT COMPANION AT HIS SIDE!
KJ
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