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Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 26 2011,06:18) CORRECTION TO ALL,
In my post immediately above I incorrectly read Webster's Dictionary of Synonyms.
Here is the correction definition of “being”
being 1 existence, actuality 2 entity, creature, individual, person
So Mike erred in saying that the word “person” is a synonym for the word “being.” He should have said that the word “person” may be a synonym for the word “being.”
The antonym for the word “being” is becoming, nonbeing
Trinitarians assert that The Father and the Son are the same Being in the sense that they are of the same “entity” but are not the same Person.
Being 2 The qualities or constitution of an existent thing (Webster's)
Being 2 Essential nature, substance (Funk and Wagnall's)
The Son is the EXACT representation of the Father's substance (being, Greek “hupostasis” Hebrews 1)
KJ
Hi Jack,You're playing games with words.
YHVH is NOT “a person”!
A person is human!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 26 2011,14:19) Hi Ed, If God has a PERSONALITY, then He is a person. He is a being, individual, entity, PERSON.
mike
Hi Mike,God is a Spiritual “Entity”, not 'a person'!
To be a person, one must be human!They continually use confusing wording,
are you going this route as well?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgI'm sorry Ed, could you show me how you come to know that the word “person” can ONLY refer to a human being?
mike
(Brought over from another thread in the hope of focusing this one discussion into one thread)
By the way Keith,
You didn't answer my #4 question with a “NO”. Would you please do so, since it is a SCRIPTURAL FACT that Cain was not the same being as Adam?
Keith said:
Quote Jesus is the “Only Begotten Son/God” according to the scriptures right?
Is God Almighty “begotten” Keith? Even the simple term “only begotten god” should send up flares in your brain.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 26 2011,14:08) (Brought over from another thread in the hope of focusing this one discussion into one thread) By the way Keith,
You didn't answer my #4 question with a “NO”. Would you please do so, since it is a SCRIPTURAL FACT that Cain was not the same being as Adam?
I have answered you but you don't like the answer so one more time I will answer then please don't ask me to change my answer to match yours.The answer is “NO” Cain is not the person “Adam” but he is in every way a “human being” like Adam.
Cain and Adam did not share the same Spirit did they? They each had their own Spirit.
Jesus is the Spirit of God which is the Spirit of Christ, the Father and Jesus share the same Spirit or essence or that which makes God, God. There is Only One Spirit.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 26 2011,14:08) Keith said: Quote Jesus is the “Only Begotten Son/God” according to the scriptures right?
Is God Almighty “begotten” Keith? Even the simple term “only begotten god” should send up flares in your brain.
Refer back to John 1:1, God was with God who came in the flesh. So no the Son is not the Father but they are both God!Did God have offspring that is not of his kind?
Is Gods Son a halfbreed or demi-god?
Does the word “Begotten” have a whole new meaning Mike?
Monogenēs…
1) single of its kind, only
a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2011,05:44) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,14:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 26 2011,14:19) Hi Ed, If God has a PERSONALITY, then He is a person. He is a being, individual, entity, PERSON.
mike
Hi Mike,God is a Spiritual “Entity”, not 'a person'!
To be a person, one must be human!They continually use confusing wording,
are you going this route as well?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I'm sorry Ed, could you show me how you come to know that the word “person” can ONLY refer to a human being?mike
Hi Mike,You tell me which word more describes YHVH with LESS CONFUSION ! ! …
Entity:
1 a: BEING, EXISTENCE; esp : independent, separate, or self-contained existence
b: the existence of a thing as contrasted by its attributes
2: something that has separate and distinct existence and objective or conceptual realityPerson:
1: HUMAN, INDIVIDUAL – sometimes used in combination esp.
by those who prefer to avoid man in compounds applicable to both sexes
2: a character or part in as if in a play: guise
3 a: one of three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as understood by Christians
b: the unitary personality of Christ that unites the devine and human natures
4 a: archaic: bodily appearance
b: the body of a human being; also: the body and clothing
5: the personality of a human being ; SELF
6: one ( as a human being. a partnership, or a corporation)
that is recognized by law as the subject of rights or duties
7: reference of a segment of discourse to the speaker, to one spoken to, or to one spoken
as if indicated by means of certain pronouns or in many languages by verb inflection – personhoodGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2011,05:44) I'm sorry Ed, could you show me how you come to know that the word “person” can ONLY refer to a human being? mike
Hi Mike,'Dog' can be used refer to a human, should we use this word or might it be “CONFUSING”??
Dog:
2 a: a worthless person
B FELLOW, CHAPWitnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)Ed,
Sometimes you're nothing but a clanging cymbal. Again, PLEASE SHOW ME HOW YOU'VE COME TO KNOW THAT THE WORD “PERSON” CAN ONLY BE REFERRING TO A HUMAN BEING.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2011,08:05) Ed, Sometimes you're nothing but a clanging cymbal. Again, PLEASE SHOW ME HOW YOU'VE COME TO KNOW THAT THE WORD “PERSON” CAN ONLY BE REFERRING TO A HUMAN BEING.
mike
Hi Mike,How many “person's” do you know that are not human?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgGod, Jesus, Gabriel, Michael………….. Is that enough?
And you have yet to answer my question. How do you KNOW that the word “person” ONLY refers to human beings? What scholarly and expert source tells you this?
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 26 2011,13:42)
I have answered you but you don't like the answer so one more time I will answer then please don't ask me to change my answer to match yours.The answer is “NO” Cain is not the person “Adam”
I believe if you look back, you'll find that you DIDN'T actually answer it the first time. Now you have, sort of.
You say that Cain is not the PERSON “Adam”. What I originally asked, and I want to know is if Cain was the SAME BEING as “Adam”. YES or NO?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 26 2011,13:42)
Jesus is the Spirit of God which is the Spirit of Christ, the Father and Jesus share the same Spirit or essence or that which makes God, God. There is Only One Spirit.
Keith, if there is only ONE Spirit, then wouldn't that be the SAME Spirit that runs, not only through Jesus, but through every living thing?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 26 2011,13:42)
Refer back to John 1:1, God was with God who came in the flesh.
No, no, no. You are not allowed to bring up John 1:1 anymore, remember? You have very clearly said:Isn't that what Francis, D, and Jack and I have been saying………….
Everyone not just I are saying that just because Jesus is called God does not mean he is God.
And all John 1:1 teaches us is that Jesus is one who is called “theos”, who was with THE theos in the beginning. So I ask again:
Quote Is God Almighty “begotten” Keith? Even the simple term “only begotten god” should send up flares in your brain.
This time, try to answer WITHOUT your fallback of John 1:1. Because your own words have solidly refuted that scripture as PROOF that Jesus is God Almighty.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 26 2011,13:42)
Did God have offspring that is not of his kind?
Absolutely not. God is a Spirit Being, as is the Son whom He begot.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 26 2011,13:42)
Is Gods Son a halfbreed or demi-god?
Of course not. Jesus was directly begotten by his God. So like I said before, that makes him as much a spirit being as the One who begot him is. But just as Cain was equally human, but not the SAME BEING as the father who begot him, Jesus is equally spirit, but not the SAME BEING as the Father who begot him.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 26 2011,13:42)
Does the word “Begotten” have a whole new meaning Mike?Monogenēs…
1) single of its kind, only
a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
No Keith, it DOESN'T have a “whole new meaning”. That's what I'VE been trying to tell YOU and JACK and JA for months. “Yalad” refers to the BRINGING FORTH OF OFFSPRING. When it is said that Adam “brought forth” a son, we immediately know that Cain came FROM Adam, and is a DIFFERENT BEING than Adam. Why would you then just assume that when it is said that God “brought forth” a Son, that this Son DIDN'T come FROM God as a DIFFERENT BEING than God?It is YOU who tries to give “begotten” a “whole new meaning”. Surely you must realize that God knew how His nation of Israel understood the word “yalad”, right? Yet He chose to use this very word to explain how he came to have a Son, right?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 28 2011,03:49) God, Jesus, Gabriel, Michael………….. Is that enough? And you have yet to answer my question. How do you KNOW that the word “person” ONLY refers to human beings? What scholarly and expert source tells you this?
mike
Hi Mike,Jesus was a person.
Gabriel, Michael are both “Angels”.
You have never met any of them, have you?
How then are you defining the word “KNOW”, here?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 01 2011,12:07) Ed, What scholarly or expert source teaches you that “person” refers ONLY to “human beings”?
mike
Hi Mike,I already told you, using the term “Person” in an attempt
to classify an entity other than human can be confusing.
Do you disagree? WJ uses that term to divide up YHVH.But what saith the Scriptures…
A kingdom be divided against itself,
that kingdom cannot stand. (Mark 3:24)Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)WJ said:
Quote The answer is “NO” Cain is not the person “Adam” but he is in every way a “human being” like Adam.
Hi Keith,Mike just won't accept that all men are the same being, that is, they are the same entity. God said of the man and the woman, “And so God made THE ADAM in His image. MALE AND FEMALE….”
In Genesis 6 God called the line of Seth THE ADAM.
Quote My Spirit shall not always strive with THE ADAM
The expression “THE ADAM” here refers to the whole line of Seth, i.e., the sons of God. They were on being (essence) but individual persons.The word “being” may refer to “essence” or “quality” just as the dictionaries say. Mike says that it must always mean “person” because he NEEDS for it to always mean “person.” But the dictionaries contradict Mike.
In the beginning was the Woman and the Woman was with the Adam and the Woman was [the] Adam (qualitatively).
Adam and Eve were one being but individual persons.
“In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with the God and the Word was [the] God” (qualitatively.
Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 01 2011,10:25) Hi Keith, Mike just won't accept that all men are the same being, that is, they are the same entity.
Hi Jack,You are right…………I WON'T accept that – because it is bunk. Individual men are individual beings. What source tells us they're not?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2011,08:52) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 01 2011,10:25) Hi Keith, Mike just won't accept that all men are the same being, that is, they are the same entity.
Hi Jack,You are right…………I WON'T accept that – because it is bunk. Individual men are individual beings. What source tells us they're not?
mike
Hi Mike,Glad to see you finally chose to agree with me,
though you were reluctant to agree with me (on this) at first!
God, the Angels, and “ALL” us “Persons”(humans) ARE “ALL” DIFFERENT ENTITIES!Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgBump for Keith
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 25 2011,13:18)
MikeNo because if I say you are the “Exact representation of a human being” am I saying that you are not a human being?
Keith, look at your own words. I've already explained this to you. God is not some kind of “species”, of which there are many members. So don't use “A human being” in your analogy unless you intend to also use “A God” in the other half of it.God is ONE Being. So for you analogy to work correctly, you must say: If I say you are the “Exact representation of THE human being, John,” am I saying that you are not THE human being, John?
And my answer would be “YES”.
For Jesus to be the “exact representation” of our ONLY GOD, Jehovah the Father, then he CAN NOT BE our ONLY GOD Jehovah the Father. And there are no other Gods that we have except for Jehovah the Father. So if he is not THAT ONE, then he is not God.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 25 2011,13:18)
If you make an “exact representation” of a hammer then would you say it is not a “hammer”? That is what you are doing with your logic.
Yes Keith, let's DO discuss our logics here. You repeatedly add the indefinite article “A” in your analogies. Your analogy cannot work unless you then add the indefinite article “A” in the part about God. You can't say “A HAMMER” without equally saying “A GOD”.So once again, you must change your hammer analogy to fit. You must first assume that there is ONLY ONE hammer in the whole world. Only then can your analogy work as compared to our ONLY ONE God. So let's try it with equal scales, okay?
If you make an “exact representation” of THE ONLY HAMMER IN THE WORLD, would that “exact representation” BE “THE ONLY HAMMER IN THE WORLD”?
See Keith, THAT'S how an equal scaled analogy would have to be worded in order to compare to OUR ONE AND ONLY GOD. You keep comparing a species of MANY with a God of ONE. It just doesn't work that way.
Keith, please acknowledge that you understand what I'm saying about how the hammer in question would have to be THE ONE AND ONLY HAMMER IN EXISTENCE for your comparison to the ONE AND ONLY GOD IN EXISTENCE to work.
peace and love,
mike
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