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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 25 2011,06:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 23 2011,20:32) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2011,09:17) Hi All It seems to me that those who do not see Jesus as equally God in nature do not really see or know him as the “Only Begotten Son/God”, but it is more like they know a Jesus that is the opposite of God the Father like some sort of half breed as Ed calls him.
You play with words once again.
What exactly does “equally God in nature” mean?
MikeIt means that everything the Father is in “Nature” as God, Jesus is.
Jesus is the “Only Begotten Son/God”
Son of God = God
Son of man = Man
Why do you not grasp this Mike? You are sticking your head in the sand.
WJ
Keith,Mike's own NWT says “Only begotten God” in John 1:18 though they put “god” in the lower case. The ESV has the right sense :
No one has ever seen God; the only God who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
Jack
Hi Keith,
You got three answers correct, but you failed to give a “YES” or “NO” on the 4th one…………..so let me help you out.
1. Keith, does your son have the same nature as you do?
Keith: Yes, he is fully human like I am.So far, so good.
2. Is your son YOU?
Keith: NOYou are now 2 for 2.
3. Keith, was the son of the first Adam equally adam?
Keith: Yes, he was completely and totally human like Adam.You are now 3 for 3.
4. Was that same son the actual BEING of Adam?
Keith: He is a “human being” just like his Father is a “human being” and of the human kind.That was the answer to question #3, Keith. Why would you answer #4 with the answer to #3?
The correct answer to #4 is “NO”.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 24 2011,11:22)
Is Jesus kind different than the God kind?
Ahhhhhh…………..see, I KNEW what the problem with you and Jack's formula was from the start. I just had to take the steps I took to get us to this stage. The problem is that you think there is some kind of “species” called “Godkind”. I assure you, there is NOT.God is a SINGLE BEING, to which I'm sure you will attest. God is not a “species”, like humankind, so your formula doesn't work with God. Here, let me explain:
Mankind is a SPECIES. That means there are many of us. And when one is born into this SPECIES, that one immediately becomes one of us. Therefore, the son of ANY MAN will also be A MAN – one of many. But the son of ANY MAN will NEVER be the SAME MAN he is the son of, right? You DO understand this irrefutable fact of both logic and biology, right?
Unfortunately for your formula, God is not a SPECIES at all. If God was a SPECIES, then there would be many Gods, just like there are many of us. If that WERE the case, then Jesus, as the son of ANY GOD, would also be A GOD – one of many. But even IF that were the case, Jesus, as the son of ANY GOD, would still NOT be the SAME GOD he is the son of.
Keith, I want you to notice the same scenario and the same wording that I used in both the green and the orange texts. I want you to COMPLETELY understand that what I posted in green about mankind is absolutely the irrefutable truth of the matter.
Then I want you to understand that EVEN IF God was a SPECIES, then everything I posted in orange about sons of the SPECIES of Godkind would also be as true as what I posted about the species of mankind. (For example, take especial note of the fact that species consist of many of the same kind, which would mean there were many Gods. Also try to understand that, as with ALL species, though the son of one will be a member of the same species, he will NEVER be the same being as his father who begot him.)
Okay, now that I've showed you how, EVEN IF God was a species, your formula wouldn't make Jesus the same BEING as the Father who begot him, it's time to get real. God is ONE SINGLE BEING. God is NOT a species consisting of many Gods – of which Jesus is one. So while the first line of your formula is correct………..
Son of (A) Man = (A) Man
………..the second line is a blatant falsehood:
Son of (A) God = (A) God
In order for it to work, there would have to be more than one God. And since there aren't, any time Jesus is called the Son of God, he is being called the Son of the ONE SINGLE BEING we know as “God”. And no being in the history of the world has ever brought forth a son who was the SAME being as the one who brought him forth. This is the world God made. It was made according to His rules and laws. And since I know the only recourse you have left is to claim that God's ways aren't our ways, so He really could have a Son that is the same being as Him, I will ask you a favor: Before you CLAIM IT, please be prepared to show PROOF of it.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 24 2011,16:40) The ESV has the right sense : No one has ever seen God; the only God who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
Thanks Jack,Now it all makes sense. No one has EVER seen our only true God, but our only true God, who is at the side of our only true God has explained our only true God to us.
I wonder if anyone SAW our only true God that no one has ever seen when he was explaining our only true God to us?
Yes……………..yes, I believe scripture says they “seen with our own eyes and touched with our own hands”. Hmmmmmmmm…………….I wonder how no one has ever seen our only true God when it's clear that they DID see our only true God?Please……………
mike
Hi Mike,
When people don't present 'a circle' of “Truth”,
the pieces that don't fit are obvious to an observer.
All the pieces MUST FIT to make “a Mosaic” of TRUTH!Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 24 2011,18:12) God is a SINGLE BEING, to which I'm sure you will attest. God is not a “species”, like humankind, so your formula doesn't work with God. Here, let me explain:
Why doesn't my formula work Mike?You talk so much about logic well why are you abandoning logic now?
Logic says if God beget a Son then that Son would be of the “Same Kind” as God unless you believe God had some kind of half breed, or demi-god or freak of nature.
In fact Hebrews says Jesus is “the radiance of God's glory and the EXACT REPRESENTATION OF HIS BEING, Heb 1:3
Let me say that again mike…
EXACT REPRESENTATION OF HIS BEING
Now what was it you were saying about God not having a Son exactly like him?
Why are you denying that Jesus is the EXACT REPRESENTATION OF HIS BEING?
Jesus is the “Only Begotten Son/God” according to the scriptures right?
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 1:18 NIV
The word for Begotten is “Monogenes” and the definition is…
1) single of its kind, only….(Or the EXACT REPRESENTATION OF HIS BEING)
a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
So that fits right in with John 1:1 where it says God is with God.
Now please show us how your logic lines up with the scripture and common sense Mike.
You have bought into Greek Mythology with your belief that God begets “a god” when the truth is God begets God, just as Man begets Man.
God is not a species but “God is a Kind” and Jesus is of the same Kind and in fact is the same Spirit.
All your spin and opinions doesn't change this fact.
WJ
WJ said to Mike:
Quote You have bought into Greek Mythology with your belief that God begets “a god” when the truth is God begets God, just as Man begets Man.
Keith,Mike says that God is not a species but his view that God begets literally implies that God is a species. Webster's defines “species” as that which breeds after its own kind. Does not Mike say that God begets like human fathers?
WJ:
Quote God is not a species but “God is a Kind” and Jesus is of the same Kind and in fact is the same Spirit.
Correct! God is not a “species” because He cannot breed. Yet Mike says that God breeds and at the same time denies that He is a species. Go figure.
The word “monogenes” in reference to Jesus means that Jesus is the only God who is of God's kind. So any other “gods” that may exist cannot be after the Father's kind. Jesus is the only God who is after the Father's kind. He is the “Monogenes God.”
Mike should look up words in the dictionaries like “being” and “kind” and “species” before he posts his comments half cocked.
Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 25 2011,12:24) WJ: Quote God is not a species but “God is a Kind” and Jesus is of the same Kind and in fact is the same Spirit.
Correct! God is not a “species” because He cannot breed. Yet Mike says that God breeds and at the same time denies that He is a species. Go figure.
Hi JackI agree, I just want to show Mike how he talks about using logic but then when you hold his feet to the fire suddenly he abandons logic and starts spinning and reinventing words and his own logic to fit his “Henotheistic” veiws.
WJ
To Jack and Keith: As I mentioned, we are discussing this in three different threads now. Let's continue it in the “t8 essence” thread where I've responded to Keith's “hammer analogy”. There's no need for us to respond to the same topic three or four different places, right?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2011,07:49) What part of any of this says “equality”? It is beyond me how an intelligent person could think a Priest TO God could be the God he is the Priest to. Or that a Son OF the SINGLE BEING OF GOD could be the God he is the Son OF. Or how a Mediator BETWEEN God and man could be the God he mediates BETWEEN.
Hi Mike,“God” or Son of Sod”
Yes, equality has NOTHING whatsoever to do with this.
Both Jack and WJ diverge the topic in an attempt to avoid our concerns!
I'm glad you are on to such diversions, and try to keep them on track towards resolution!
They continue to offer NO PROOF why Jesus (as they believe) is both? Equality offers no proof of this at all!Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 26 2011,02:54) EXACT REPRESENTATION OF HIS BEING
The keyword for you here WJ, is “representation”.If I represent God to you, am I God?
If the vice-president represents the president when the president is unable to fulfill his duties, then is the vice president the actual same person as the president?
No of course not.
Think hard about this WJ, before you make another post and dig yourself deeper into a ditch.
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