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Marty.
Will you confirm that those scriptures are true.
Or not true.
Would you contradict God's own words,and interpret
it your own way.
I am not accusing anybody;just posting scriptures
that have been refuted by some.Are they true or false?
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 18 2014,07:48) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2014,23:03) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 16 2014,13:13) This is the reason why:
God created good and evil,so men can make *a choice*.
This is the reason why God put the tree of good and evil in the garden;so Adam and Eve can make a *choice*.God calls us to come,and some will come,and some
will not come. Jesus knocks on the door;some will open and some will not open.But dont get confused;God knows ahead who will come,
and who will refuse to come.
Some refused to come because they are happy with all the material things they posses. They feel of no need for God.The true followers will be fed;and will grow,and bear fruits.
Yes;God draws them;but we must make our own decision,
To come and to stay. Some came and then leave.
Some leave and then came back.
Solomon came;but then the tempter came, and He was tempted,and He decided to followed the lusts of his flesh.wakeup.
no, God did not create evil. To disobey His Commands is the cause of all evil, but yes, we do have a choice.Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.After all your good preachings.
Can you still refute these true written Words?
I know many have done; without any hesitations.
Their conscience seard with a hot iron.
Cherry pick the scriptures according to own taste.Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
Psalms 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
1 Samuel 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
All those scriptures above are in harmony with:
I make peace and create evil.
I THE LORD DO ALL THESE THINGS.Wakeup.
Wakeup………Good Post , problem very few TRULY believe those Scriptures you posted. They can not see The LORD our GOD as, SOVEREIGN, over “ALL” things things that exist. They hold mans WILL higher and greater Then Gods' HOW?, by thinking they can chose their own salvation or not, by their own “so-called” Wills, that are Totally “FREE” From God”s will that is. So they maintain control of their own lives and have not really, submitted themselves, to the WILL of GOD at all. They only submit as they PLEASE. IMOTheir very first sin, was Man Choosing to follow his own “will” They became “captivated” by Satan's deceptions, and not Believing or Glorifying God, as a GOD (the only Power they could lean on and trust in), They wanted to lean and trust in themselves, and do their own “SELF-INFLUENCED” WILLS.
But all true believers have God Working in them controlling their Will, Just as it says.
For God works “IN” US (true believers) “BOTH” to WILL and DO of HIS GOOD PLEASURE. They simply do not want God to Work
HIS” WILL “IN” them , they want to be FREE WILLS choosing how or IF they are going to be saved, So they can GLORIFY “themselves”, as their own saviors. Who needs God when they can Chose for themselves what is right and what is wrong. Who needs God to take out of them the “Stony Hearts, and give them hearts of flesh (soft hearts) and write His law in their inward parts> They do not need God to perform any of that to them, because they all themselves can, by their own so-called “FREE” WILL CHOICES. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Thank you Gene.
Yes ;we should leave all things to God.
He will lead.
We should never think that we are inteligent and wise enough
To bring peace and security.Is the world not runned by the intelligent?
Now see what they have done to the world.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 18 2014,09:11) Marty. Will you confirm that those scriptures are true.
Or not true.
Would you contradict God's own words,and interpret
it your own way.
I am not accusing anybody;just posting scriptures
that have been refuted by some.Are they true or false?
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:The scriptures are true if you will read them in context so that you will know what you are talking about. For example, do you know what the main subject of the book of Jeremiah and Lamentations is about?
Go back and read those books and then talk to me about how God creates evil.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Wakeup:
I just got home from work and I am tired and will not try to give you an answer for each scripture, and what it means, but this is what the James Faucett Brown Commentary states:
Quote create evil–not moral evil ( Jam 1:13 ), but in contrast to “peace” in the parallel clause, war, disaster (compare Psa 65:7 Amo 3:6 ). Which is what I have already told you.
Love in Christ,
MartyNow add to Marty's information the fact that the Hebrew word “ra” is not always translated as “evil” in the KJV.
The KJV also translates that same exact word as “trouble”, “affliction”, and “adversity” – among others.
The KJV translators simply should have used one of those other words in Isaiah 45:7.
While the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary is most likely correct that the KJV people weren't intending for their readers to believe that God creates LITERAL EVIL, but more a state of “UN-PEACE”, they could have eliminated the confusion altogether by using one of those other words in that verse.
Consider the words of that commentary, Wakeup. Notice how “light” is contrasted with “darkness”, and something is contrasted with “peace” in Isaiah 45:7.
The opposite of “light” is indeed “darkness”. But the opposite of “peace” is not “evil”. What exactly IS the opposite of “peace”, Wakeup?
Well, according to the thesaurus on Dictionary.com, some of the antonyms (opposites) of “peace” are:
1. Adversity
2. Trouble
3. AfflictionHmmmm……….. the same exact words the KJV sometimes uses for the Hebrew word “ra”.
And since those words ARE actually opposites of “peace”, the KJV translators most definitely should have used one of those words in Isaiah 45:7.
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2014,10:25) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 18 2014,09:11) Marty. Will you confirm that those scriptures are true.
Or not true.
Would you contradict God's own words,and interpret
it your own way.
I am not accusing anybody;just posting scriptures
that have been refuted by some.Are they true or false?
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:The scriptures are true if you will read them in context so that you will know what you are talking about. For example, do you know what the main subject of the book of Jeremiah and Lamentations is about?
Go back and read those books and then talk to me about how God creates evil.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.
Tell me the truth.Was lucifer created *by God* or by some other?
You will say by God.
You also believe that God can see beforehand.
Did God *not see* that lucifer will rebel,and be the hammer
of the world? The great deceiver?wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 19 2014,14:51) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2014,10:25) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 18 2014,09:11) Marty. Will you confirm that those scriptures are true.
Or not true.
Would you contradict God's own words,and interpret
it your own way.
I am not accusing anybody;just posting scriptures
that have been refuted by some.Are they true or false?
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:The scriptures are true if you will read them in context so that you will know what you are talking about. For example, do you know what the main subject of the book of Jeremiah and Lamentations is about?
Go back and read those books and then talk to me about how God creates evil.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.
Tell me the truth.Was lucifer created *by God* or by some other?
You will say by God.
You also believe that God can see beforehand.
Did God *not see* that lucifer will rebel,and be the hammer
of the world? The great deceiver?wakeup.
Ok. I will keep telling you the truth until hopefully you will believe it.No, God did not create Lucifer. Do you know to whom He refers to Lucifer? Maybe, these scriptures will give you a clue.
Quote Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
22 For I will rise up against them, saith the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the Lord.
God created the serpent, and he created man, and it was through Adam that sin entered into the world. Man has “a free will”. He has the freedom to choose to do good or to do evil. Nebuchadnezzar is the one to whom God refers to here, and God knows how to humble someone also as he did him in making him live like a beast and letting him grow feathers until he acknowledged that God is supreme, and he can do nothing unless God allows it.
And so, yes, God knew about the rebellion, but God also used Nebuchadnezzar to punish Israel in order to bring them to repentance.
And if you are speaking of God casting the devil out of heaven into the earth, do you really think that God would literally cast someone out of heaven into this earth? Don't we have enough problems with all of the evil that is committed here on this earth. God is not talking about casting someone literally out of heaven, but sinners out of the Kingdom of heaven here on earth.
This is what he did in the case of the Pharisees:
Quote John 12:29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. 30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Quote Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Quote Ezekiel 28:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:There are other scriptures I could share with you, but that is all I have time for at the present.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Wakeup:
I will just make one more comment, and that is God knew there would be rebellious men, but in the Kingdom of God which will be for eternity there will never be rebellion again. This world is temporary and those who choose to continue in sin and reject the “free gift of salvation” will be destroyed forever.
Apparently, you do not know the God I know and His Wisdom.
Love in Christ,
MartyGod in the past as shown that whatever men does he can not change the course of God will ,the only thing that God love as done is to stretch out his harm by his grace to save us ,from his wrath to come
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 20 2014,00:29) Hi Wakeup: I will just make one more comment, and that is God knew there would be rebellious men, but in the Kingdom of God which will be for eternity there will never be rebellion again. This world is temporary and those who choose to continue in sin and reject the “free gift of salvation” will be destroyed forever.
Apparently, you do not know the God I know and His Wisdom.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.Would you quote these sriptures out of your own bible
please.And tell us what God is saying.1.exod.4:11.
2.deut 32:39.
3.1 sam. 2:6.
4.psalms 78:49.
5.job.26:13.
6.lament 3:38.
7.isaiah 45:7
8.Isaiah 54:16
9. amos 3:6wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 20 2014,03:34) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 20 2014,00:29) Hi Wakeup: I will just make one more comment, and that is God knew there would be rebellious men, but in the Kingdom of God which will be for eternity there will never be rebellion again. This world is temporary and those who choose to continue in sin and reject the “free gift of salvation” will be destroyed forever.
Apparently, you do not know the God I know and His Wisdom.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.Would you quote these sriptures out of your own bible
please.And tell us what God is saying.1.exod.4:11.
2.deut 32:39.
3.1 sam. 2:6.
4.psalms 78:49.
5.job.26:13.
6.lament 3:38.
7.isaiah 45:7
8.Isaiah 54:16
9. amos 3:6wakeup.
1.exod.4:11.(God made man's mouth and he made all men, whether they are dumb, deaf, seeing or blind. It is not saying that he made these people dumb, deaf or blind.2.deut 32:39.
From ch 32:
4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.
6 Do ye thus requite the Lord, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
19 And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.
24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.
25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.
35 To me belongeth vengeance and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.
36 For the Lord shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.
39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
43 Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.
(So do you understand what this is saying?)
I will have to respond to the rest later.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Wakeup @ Feb. 20 2014,02:58) Marty. I understand all that.
But where does evil comes from?
Who is the father of it?wakeup.
WEVIL IS SOMETHING THAT WE IN OUR HEARTS BUILD UP ,AND IT WILL GROW IF WE LET IT GROW ,
Ge 4:6 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast?
Ge 4:7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it.”Hi Wakeup,
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.We all know that “darkness” is the opposite of “light”, right?
But what is the opposite of “peace”?
Here are four of the words the KJV uses as a translation of the Hebrew word “ra”………
1. Evil
2. Trouble
3. Adversity
4. AfflictionWhich one of those four is NOT the opposite of “peace”?
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 13 2014,23:36) T8. Adam And Eve had to choose;they made their choice.
We also have to make that choice.
Many choose both; pray to God with their lips,
and the same time follow the world,and be part of Babylon.
God is there to draw us to Him;satan is also there to draw us to himself. Its our choice to take the fruit and eat of it, or resist the serpent.
Sounds like you agree that man has free will or the ability to choose freely among choices that are given. I agree with that. This is why we are accountable for our choices and actions.Gene, if God chose you to rebel in the last hour before your death, and when you died, you went to the grave to await the great judgement to be judged as wicked, then according to what you believe and preach, you could not complain about it, but accept it because it fits right into your view and teaching.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2014,09:10) Hi Wakeup, Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.We all know that “darkness” is the opposite of “light”, right?
But what is the opposite of “peace”?
Here are four of the words the KJV uses as a translation of the Hebrew word “ra”………
1. Evil
2. Trouble
3. Adversity
4. AfflictionWhich one of those four is NOT the opposite of “peace”?
The AKJV has perhaps more flaws than most other popular translations. This is because it had less texts to work from and not the older texts that have since been discovered.It is certainly suspicious that there is a movement out there that promotes the most flawed translation as the only correct one. I am starting to think that whoever is ultimately behind that, wants the Trinity to have more supposed evidence. Much of the KJV faults are the result of skewing or adding words to support the Trinity.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 20 2014,09:08) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 13 2014,23:36) T8. Adam And Eve had to choose;they made their choice.
We also have to make that choice.
Many choose both; pray to God with their lips,
and the same time follow the world,and be part of Babylon.
God is there to draw us to Him;satan is also there to draw us to himself. Its our choice to take the fruit and eat of it, or resist the serpent.
Sounds like you agree that man has free will or the ability to choose freely among choices that are given. I agree with that. This is why we are accountable for our choices and actions.
Yes, Loving God must come from the heart.
By own choice.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2014,08:10) Hi Wakeup, Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.We all know that “darkness” is the opposite of “light”, right?
But what is the opposite of “peace”?
Here are four of the words the KJV uses as a translation of the Hebrew word “ra”………
1. Evil
2. Trouble
3. Adversity
4. AfflictionWhich one of those four is NOT the opposite of “peace”?
Mike B.War and turbulence is the opposite to peace.
Mike; If we start changing the wordings of scripture,
then anyone can interpret scriptures as pleased.
So where can the line be drawn?
It can go on and on and on.wakeup.
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