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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 12 2014,08:41) Ezekiel 18
26 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die.27 But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life.
28 Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die.
Gene, not only does this passage explain how all of us have the free will to CHOOSE righteousness or wickedness, but it also shows that WE OURSELVES play a big part in our own salvation.
I agree that God alone is the one who offers that salvation as a gift……. but WE are the ones who either do what it takes to receive that gift, or don't.
Mike……..All have turned and Sinned everyone has. Not one word of those scriptures say one thing about Us having WILLS “themselves”, that are “FREE”. In fact if a man does this or that, it is because he is lead by some kind of “INFLUENCE”, influencing him and these influences make up his will.The whole Idea of a Will “ITSELF”, Being “FREE” is false, because No wills are FREE or they simply would not be called a WILL, now would they?
We do have Liberty to exercise our “influenced” Wills. And if those influences are strong enough to change our direction then we will go that way. That also applies to the Spirit of God, that influences us to Change and and Brings us to Jesus Christ.
Mike true righteousness is not a FREE WILL Choice, from ones “self”, it is a Spiritual influenced Choice. That is why it say that , you are “CREATED” unto Good works < it is a creation process and it it is a Creation it is not of SELF WILL or any kind , except the Will of the one doing the creating, GOD.
Why do you think it says There is “NONE” righteous, no “NOT ONE” : There is “NONE” that understands, there is “NONE” that Seeks after GOD. They are “ALL” gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is “NONE” that does Good, NO “NOT ONE”.
Now show me one scripture, that shows we chose, by our own so-called “FREE” WILLS, to seek GOD and go to Jesus by our own “Free” Wills. It doesn't exist Mike.
peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 12 2014,11:34) No, Gene, you say that I am a false teacher, but I normally just let the scriptures determine who is teaching false doctrine. While it is true that I did not come looking for God, but He came looking for me. It is I that had to accept His offer of forgiveness and to be reconciled to Him. God will not force anyone to come to Him. It is a person's choice.And I have give you various scriptures that show that it is a choice. You even admit yourself that you think than all will come to repentance at some point in time. What does that mean, if not that that they will do so by their free will. God may send tribulation to help influence a man's decision, but it is still his decision. Here is another scripture for you to consider:
Quote
Rev 3:20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
You see, that the man had to hear his voice, and open the door, and then Jesus would come in to him.
It sure sounds like that man had a choice to me?Joshua sure thought it was a choice. Only you and wakeup seem to teach something different.
Quote
Jos 24:15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
So, Joshua had it all wrong, and you have it right?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty……….First of all i do not believe you are a “FALSE” Teacher, even if you believe something I disagree with.Now i would like you to address this scripture for us all. “NO” Man “CAN COME” unto Me except that Father who sent me DRAW Him, and i shall raise him up in the Last Day.
You talk about Joshua Choosing God, but you left out scripture that says He had a Different Spirit “ON” HIM. he was a annointed man of God, If you would like i can produce that scripture for you brother.
You also have not addressed the Scriptures i quoted about where Paul said God is the POTTER and WE the CLAY, and He fashions us according to his WILL not ours. Does not the Potter have “POWER” over the CLAY, to Make one vessel to honor and another dishonor. Your answer to that would be NO, the POTTER does NOT have POWER over the CLAY, But the CLAY has POWER over the POTTER to Make itself any kind of Vessel it chooses. Right?, By it's power of it's “free” WILL Choices.
Also Marty please address this You say Jesus and God stand at the door and Knock, and if any open unto them they will come in, and that is true , but what you are leaving out is that no one will open, unto them, that the Spirit of God has not DRAWN, and it is the Spirit of God Draws and causes us to open the Door, then did we do it ourselves or was it a work of God? Who works in us Both To WILL and Do of “HIS” Good PLEASURE.
Did Jesus chose himself , did the Apostles, did Jeremiah the Prophet, Did MOSES, Did JOHN the baptist. and on and on it goes. Marty this whole concept of Man having a free will to determine his destiny is pure garbage. It only serves the PRIDE of Man and Not GOD. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Gene,
James 4:4
Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.It is our CHOICE, Gene. And we make those kinds of CHOICES by our own free will.
In fact, the Greek word translated as “chooses” in the NIV above means:
boulomai
1) to will deliberately, have a purpose, be mindedQuote (Wakeup @ Feb. 11 2014,22:07) T8. God always chooses the bad and the good to do His plan.
If I am bad at heart and I fit into His plan,
yes. God will use me. And if you are good in his eyes,
God will use you to do his plan. God does the choosing.
He chose his apostles and the prophets.wakeup.
So you are arguing that we have free will to do good and bad. And depending on OUR choice, God or the Devil take over from there?Quote (t8 @ Feb. 13 2014,14:42) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 11 2014,22:07) T8. God always chooses the bad and the good to do His plan.
If I am bad at heart and I fit into His plan,
yes. God will use me. And if you are good in his eyes,
God will use you to do his plan. God does the choosing.
He chose his apostles and the prophets.wakeup.
So you are arguing that we have free will to do good and bad. And depending on OUR choice, God or the Devil take over from there?
T8.Adam And Eve had to choose;they made their choice.
We also have to make that choice.
Many choose both; pray to God with their lips,
and the same time follow the world,and be part of Babylon.
God is there to draw us to Him;satan is also there to draw us to himself. Its our choice to take the fruit and eat of it, or resist the serpent.But one thing we know for sure;God knows who is going to resist the serpent, and who is going to take the fruit.(satans offer to the world).
**It is God's plan**;and he only will work it out according to his own will.He uses anyone, anything to his will.
God also used a donkey to do certain things;in the case of balaam. God used the sea,the quailes;and split the rock.
God also used israel ;He blinded them;so the gospel can be preached to the gentiles.wakeup.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 13 2014,03:02) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 12 2014,11:34) No, Gene, you say that I am a false teacher, but I normally just let the scriptures determine who is teaching false doctrine. While it is true that I did not come looking for God, but He came looking for me. It is I that had to accept His offer of forgiveness and to be reconciled to Him. God will not force anyone to come to Him. It is a person's choice.And I have give you various scriptures that show that it is a choice. You even admit yourself that you think than all will come to repentance at some point in time. What does that mean, if not that that they will do so by their free will. God may send tribulation to help influence a man's decision, but it is still his decision. Here is another scripture for you to consider:
Quote
Rev 3:20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
You see, that the man had to hear his voice, and open the door, and then Jesus would come in to him.
It sure sounds like that man had a choice to me?Joshua sure thought it was a choice. Only you and wakeup seem to teach something different.
Quote
Jos 24:15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
So, Joshua had it all wrong, and you have it right?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty……….First of all i do not believe you are a “FALSE” Teacher, even if you believe something I disagree with.Now i would like you to address this scripture for us all. “NO” Man “CAN COME” unto Me except that Father who sent me DRAW Him, and i shall raise him up in the Last Day.
You talk about Joshua Choosing God, but you left out scripture that says He had a Different Spirit “ON” HIM. he was a annointed man of God, If you would like i can produce that scripture for you brother.
You also have not addressed the Scriptures i quoted about where Paul said God is the POTTER and WE the CLAY, and He fashions us according to his WILL not ours. Does not the Potter have “POWER” over the CLAY, to Make one vessel to honor and another dishonor. Your answer to that would be NO, the POTTER does NOT have POWER over the CLAY, But the CLAY has POWER over the POTTER to Make itself any kind of Vessel it chooses. Right?, By it's power of it's “free” WILL Choices.
Also Marty please address this You say Jesus and God stand at the door and Knock, and if any open unto them they will come in, and that is true , but what you are leaving out is that no one will open, unto them, that the Spirit of God has not DRAWN, and it is the Spirit of God Draws and causes us to open the Door, then did we do it ourselves or was it a work of God? Who works in us Both To WILL and Do of “HIS” Good PLEASURE.
Did Jesus chose himself , did the Apostles, did Jeremiah the Prophet, Did MOSES, Did JOHN the baptist. and on and on it goes. Marty this whole concept of Man having a free will to determine his destiny is pure garbage. It only serves the PRIDE of Man and Not GOD. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Hi Gene:I know that know one can come to the Father except He draw then, and at one time you wanted to say, drag him.
And no man can be saved except through Jesus Christ.
But the man has to repent if he wants to accept the free gift from God, and that is by “his choice”.
Quote
Act 2:22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Act 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Act 2:25
For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Act 2:26
Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 2:28
Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Act 2:29
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
2:31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35
Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[b] Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
These men when they realized what they had done wanted to know what shall we do. To do something requires and action that someone chooses
to do, and then Peter's response was that they “had to repent and be baptized” and this also requires and action that is a choice if they do it.And yes, Joshua was an anointed prophet of God, but he was speaking to the house of Israel, saying to them that they should make their choice.
I also have received the Holy Ghost, and therefore I am anointed. I may not be in a position of authority in the church, but I am anointed.
Quote
1Jo 2:27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 13 2014,11:44) Gene, James 4:4
Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.It is our CHOICE, Gene. And we make those kinds of CHOICES by our own free will.
In fact, the Greek word translated as “chooses” in the NIV above means:
boulomai
1) to will deliberately, have a purpose, be minded
Mike……….Again you do not answer the scriptures i have posted, If we can Chose Jesus on our own , then why did he say No Man CAN come unto Me except the Father draw Him.The word of James about choosing are right, but that choice does not come from a Will the is “FREE” but a Will that is captivated by what is driving it. If it is the spirit of the world then you will chose that , if it is the Spirit God then you will chose it.
The very definition you gave about Choosing ,shows my point clearly. to will “deliberately” have a purpose, be minded. Not so much as one word about FREE there right.
To be Minded is about what is in the MIND, and if it is the Spirit of God, then that is how your are minded. If it is the Spirit of the world then that is how you are minded.
Look i am not saying we don't make choices and do not have liberty to make those choices , what i am say is those choices are not from a Will the is “FREE”, it simply would not be a Will at all if it were “FREE” the very word Will mean it is the result of something driving it. A Will is the result of a function of what is in the mind and there is nothing FREE about our Minds.
Even Scripture says God does “ALL” thing after the “COUNCIL of HIS WILL. Now if that Will of God is Counseled, then it is the counsel that makes it up and directs it. The same applies to us, our Wills are Counseled also, by the thoughts of our mind, and the Thoughts of our minds, are a result of the Spirits that is IN them.
All who are called by God will open the door and ask and seek him, all who are not will not open the door nor seek him. And no man on his own will go to Jesus unless the FATHER Draw Him by his Spirit. We, as the apostles, did not Choose God, God chose us from the foundations of the earth, to be conformed unto the image of his dear Son.
Our fate is not a crap shoot, Mike, based on our own so-called Wills that are “FREE”, because no WILL is FREE “ITSELF”, it is DRIVEN by the THOUGHTS of our MINDS. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 14 2014,00:37) These men when they realized what they had done wanted to know what shall we do. To do something requires and action that someone chooses to do, and then Peter's response was that they “had to repent and be baptized” and this also requires and action that is a choice if they do it. And yes, Joshua was an anointed prophet of God, but he was speaking to the house of Israel, saying to them that they should make their choice.
I also have received the Holy Ghost, and therefore I am anointed. I may not be in a position of authority in the church, but I am anointed.
Quote
1Jo 2:27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty……….You brought up a good point, On the day of Pentecost When the Holy spirit was Poured out , and the Apostle Peter spoke to them , It was the Spirit that opened there Minds and Hearts, to the Truth, and it caused them to be Pricked in there hearts.None of this was a result of a Will the was FREE, or a Choice of man, but of the Spirit of God. These same people a few weeks earlier were saying, Crucify Him, why such a Change, was it a “FREEWILL” thing from themselves, or the HOLY SPIRIT (Spirit of Truth) that convicted them of what they had Done, and the automatic result was they were put in a repentant state of Mind.
They did no have to repent later they simply were already repentant or they would have never been “PRICKED” in there HEARTS in the first place. It all was by the “REVELATION” of TRUTH FROM GOD, into their minds, it had nothing to do with them doing it all by there own FREE-WILLS> but by the work of GODS SPIRIT being poured out on them. IMO
Marty, we are His (God's) workmanship, being “created” unto good works. This also proves my point, IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 13 2014,06:44) Gene, James 4:4
Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.It is our CHOICE, Gene. And we make those kinds of CHOICES by our own free will.
In fact, the Greek word translated as “chooses” in the NIV above means:
boulomai
1) to will deliberately, have a purpose, be minded
LOOK AT THIS PALMSPs 119:113 I hate double-minded men,
but I love your law.
Ps 119:114 You are my refuge and my shield;
I have put my hope in your word.
Ps 119:115 Away from me, you evildoers,
that I may keep the commands of my God!
Ps 119:116 Sustain me according to your promise, and I will live;
do not let my hopes be dashed.
Ps 119:117 Uphold me, and I will be delivered;
I will always have regard for your decrees.
Ps 119:118 You reject all who stray from your decrees,
for their deceitfulness is in vain.
Ps 119:119 All the wicked of the earth you discard like dross;
therefore I love your statutes.
Ps 119:120 My flesh trembles in fear of you;
I stand in awe of your laws.AND SPECIALLY ON VERSE 118 AND 119
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 14 2014,01:45) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 14 2014,00:37) These men when they realized what they had done wanted to know what shall we do. To do something requires and action that someone chooses to do, and then Peter's response was that they “had to repent and be baptized” and this also requires and action that is a choice if they do it. And yes, Joshua was an anointed prophet of God, but he was speaking to the house of Israel, saying to them that they should make their choice.
I also have received the Holy Ghost, and therefore I am anointed. I may not be in a position of authority in the church, but I am anointed.
Quote
1Jo 2:27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty……….You brought up a good point, On the day of Pentecost When the Holy spirit was Poured out , and the Apostle Peter spoke to them , It was the Spirit that opened there Minds and Hearts, to the Truth, and it caused them to be Pricked in there hearts.None of this was a result of a Will the was FREE, or a Choice of man, but of the Spirit of God. These same people a few weeks earlier were saying, Crucify Him, why such a Change, was it a “FREEWILL” thing from themselves, or the HOLY SPIRIT (Spirit of Truth) that convicted them of what they had Done, and the automatic result was they were put in a repentant state of Mind.
They did no have to repent later they simply were already repentant or they would have never been “PRICKED” in there HEARTS in the first place. It all was by the “REVELATION” of TRUTH FROM GOD, into their minds, it had nothing to do with them doing it all by there own FREE-WILLS> but by the work of GODS SPIRIT being poured out on them. IMO
Marty, we are His (God's) workmanship, being “created” unto good works. This also proves my point, IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
GeneB.The potter knows which of his pots are good.
and which are rejects.
He will work on his good pots, and put them through the fire
to make it strong and steady.It will not change shape in any weather.Then He puts it on display on his shelf,and keeps them in his house.
The reject pots He will cast in the trash.But in his house there are many vessels;some of gold,some of silver,some of iron,some of wood.
Not all resurrected will shine equally.The ones that are drawn by God; He will give them nourishment and make them grow,and they will bear fruits.
And you can see them by their fruits. Good fruits.Yes; God has chosen us from the beginning.He can see which ones are Good, and which ones are bad to be cast in the trash.
If one is given nourishment;He will know that God has chosen him,he will be fed,and he shall find the whole truth.
Who are the good? How can we know?
Their spirit will have the same frequency,and can log into
the scriptures. The Word of God which was made flesh,and we know him by His name Jesus. He will come again by his new spirit name; THE WORD OF GOD.
No one has seen him as he really is,but will know; when we are resurrected.Then we can see Him as he really is.We still can refuse if we want; but this will not happen.
Because of our love for God is strong.wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:
You say:
Quote We still can refuse if we want; but this will not happen.
Because of our love for God is strong.So, we do have a choice to make, right? And that is the issue of this discussion.
Love in Christ,
MartyWakeup………..The Potter takes the raw clay and adds water to it and put it on, the potters Wheel and “FORMS” it as He Pleases. He has “complete” Power over it , the clay can not tell the Potter to make him this way or that way, The Potter is “TOTALLY” in control of the lump of Clay to Make it as He pleases. Even so God is in TOTAL control of each of US, Read those complete Scriptures Paul wrote there and you will come to see this also brother.
Wakeup, another good point is where Jesus said a Good TREE “CANNOT” bring forth Bad fruit, neither “can” a Corrupt TREE, bring forth Good Fruit, Now if our So-called “FREE” WILLS chose what kind of Fruit we will bring forth then, How is it that a Good tree “CANNOT” Bring forth Bad fruit> How is that if we have these so_called “FREE” Will choices. No brother we are driven by the Spirits that abide in us, Just as the LORD our GOD is, By the Seven Spirits of God, that give council to His WILL, Nothing FREE about It. Wakeup i have never said God does not give us the “LIBERTY” to exercise our Captivated WILL , but those WILL themselves are far from being FREE, themselves. Thank about it Brother.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 14 2014,23:29) Hi Wakeup: You say:
Quote We still can refuse if we want; but this will not happen.
Because of our love for God is strong.So, we do have a choice to make, right? And that is the issue of this discussion.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.We are made in the image of God.
We have a choice.
Adam and Eve had a choice.
She made the decision to take of the fruit.
She was deceived,but is still her decision.
King David was chosen by God;and he made a decision to sin.Some are drawn by God,but it does not mean that we can not sin. Because in our life time we also make wrong decisions. But then, we realise that it was the wrong decision we made. Then we repented and never do that thing again.Remenber; we will never be tempted above our
strenght. We get stronger with time to resist the devil.
We must make the right choices in life.
Not all vessels are of gold.Desire the gold,not the clay.wakeup.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 15 2014,01:59) Wakeup………..The Potter takes the raw clay and adds water to it and put it on, the potters Wheel and “FORMS” it as He Pleases. He has “complete” Power over it , the clay can not tell the Potter to make him this way or that way, The Potter is “TOTALLY” in control of the lump of Clay to Make it as He pleases. Even so God is in TOTAL control of each of US, Read those complete Scriptures Paul wrote there and you will come to see this also brother. Wakeup, another good point is where Jesus said a Good TREE “CANNOT” bring forth Bad fruit, neither “can” a Corrupt TREE, bring forth Good Fruit, Now if our So-called “FREE” WILLS chose what kind of Fruit we will bring forth then, How is it that a Good tree “CANNOT” Bring forth Bad fruit> How is that if we have these so_called “FREE” Will choices. No brother we are driven by the Spirits that abide in us, Just as the LORD our GOD is, By the Seven Spirits of God, that give council to His WILL, Nothing FREE about It. Wakeup i have never said God does not give us the “LIBERTY” to exercise our Captivated WILL , but those WILL themselves are far from being FREE, themselves. Thank about it Brother.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
Gene B.If our doings is in the hands of God;then we all should be perfect. But we are far from perfect,because we make wrong choices in life. But since God has drawn us,he also let us make our own choices;for by that we can learn,until we reach perfection.
We also must love God by our own choice;not by control.We are drawn by God;meaning that God has lead us to the Word,and we will feed on that Word,the flesh of Christ.
Does not mean that we will be instantly perfect. But we are working towards perfection,day by day, getting stronger and stronger in the faith.We MUST make many choices in our lives.Most good,some not so good,but we always improof. God knows them that is His from the beginning.
Remember Gene;not all God's vessels are of gold.
Some are of silver,some iron and some wood and clay.
Labour for the gold.Our reward is according to out works.wakeup.
Ow does God draw them He chose.
God looks around and say; hey you come here and seek.
That person will go and start to read the Word of God which also is the flesh of the Jesus.
He will feed on that flesh and become part of him.
The tempter will come straight away to draw him away from feeding on that flesh. Now it is his decision to stay strong,or
follow what is put before him.He may fall,but will come back again over and over,feeding on that flesh. He will get stronger and stronger by feeding himself,until the tempter gives up,but not for long.
He will come back to tempt his weakness.
But God also will give a helping hand.God knows that his boy will make it to the end.
He will even give his life for God,as God gave his only begotten Son for us.This tree has grown tall and even bear fruits,(knowledge),and bringing some to the truth,and share that knowledge.
He lives by the spirit,the will of the flesh is deadened.The lust of the flesh has no power. He has come out of material Babylon.He dwells in the city of God spiritually:Holy jerusalem with many angels dwelling there.
He is no citizen of Babylon anymore.This is the renewing of the mind,born again of the mind.
He will be born again in a spirit body at the resurrection.
Born of the spirit.
That is the reward,and will be with God forever.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,13:09) Some are drawn by God,but it does not mean that we can not sin.
And what about all those others, Wakeup?Are you saying God chooses not to draw them, and so they were destined for eternal destruction from their birth? Nothing at all they can do about it?
That doesn't seem like the actions of a fair and just God.
I can't yet explain what Jesus meant when he said no one can come to him unless drawn by the Father……. but there's got to be an explanation other than the one you and Gene are pushing.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2014,08:51) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,13:09) Some are drawn by God,but it does not mean that we can not sin.
And what about all those others, Wakeup?Are you saying God chooses not to draw them, and so they were destined for eternal destruction from their birth? Nothing at all they can do about it?
That doesn't seem like the actions of a fair and just God.
I can't yet explain what Jesus meant when he said no one can come to him unless drawn by the Father……. but there's got to be an explanation other than the one you and Gene are pushing.
Mike B.Many, many gentiles were drawn by God,and became christians.
They will be judged as christians.Judged according their lives in Christ.
The others will be judged by the books,in the second resurrection.
The wrong doers(goats), will be cast in the fire.
God's judgement is true and righteous judgement.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,18:26) Mike B. Many, many gentiles were drawn by God,and became Christians.
Why just “many”? Why not “all”?And what of those who WEREN'T drawn by God? Did God just cast them aside as not worthy? If so, why did God only choose SOME of us to be drawn? Was God playing favorites?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2014,11:30) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,18:26) Mike B. Many, many gentiles were drawn by God,and became Christians.
Why just “many”? Why not “all”?And what of those who WEREN'T drawn by God? Did God just cast them aside as not worthy? If so, why did God only choose SOME of us to be drawn? Was God playing favorites?
MikeB.I should have said ALL.
Because those gentiles have their own gods.
wakeup.
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