Proclaimer Mikeboll64 vs JB2U

Blocked

Gene,

I only want to know if the man who raped the little boy did so because of his own free will, or if God DESTINED him to rape that little boy.

Which one?

February 9, 2014 at 6:19 pm#370831

terraricca

Participant

Mike

you mist this one ;

Mike

yes all good with one exception TO GIVE ONE FORESIGHT ONE AS TO KNOW ,

IF ONE DOES NOT KNOW THEN HE CAN NOT GIVE FORESIGHT TO THE OTHER RIGHT

I BELIEVE SO ,

February 9, 2014 at 6:33 pm#370837

Blocked

I didn't miss it, Pierre.

I'm trying to show you that you're saying the EXACT SAME THING as the rest of us.

Here are your words:

IF ONE DOES NOT KNOW THEN HE CAN NOT GIVE FORESIGHT TO THE OTHER

And now I'll change but one word from what you wrote, and end up saying the SAME EXACT THING:

IF ONE DOES NOT ~~KNOW~~ FORESEE THEN HE CAN NOT GIVE FORESIGHT TO THE OTHER

Do you understand yet? To “foreKNOW” is the same thing as to “foreSEE”.

We are saying the same exact thing, Pierre. We are both saying that God “foreKNOWS” – which means we are both saying that God “foreSEES”.

February 9, 2014 at 6:47 pm#370838

942767

Participant

Hi Gene:

If when the gospel is preached to you prior to your being reconcile to God, do you have a choice to accept God's free gift of love of forgiveness to you, or does He force you to accept this gift.

After you have been saved, the Holy Ghost leads you unto all truths, but the Holy Ghost does not take away your freedom to obey the Word or not. The rewards to us as Christians will be according to our works, and not every one will be rewarded equally. If what you are saying is correct, then everyone will be rewarded equally.

Take a look at the following scripture:

Quote

1Cr 3:1

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

1Cr 3:2

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

1Cr 3:3

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

1Cr 3:4

For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

1Cr 3:5

Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

1Cr 3:6

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

1Cr 3:7

So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

1Cr 3:8

Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

1Cr 3:9

For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

1Cr 3:10

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

1Cr 3:11

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1Cr 3:12

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

1Cr 3:13

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Cr 3:14

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Cr 3:15

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Love in Christ,
Marty

February 9, 2014 at 7:48 pm#370840

Participant

Marty……….No Marty “BEFORE” you have been Saved the HOLY SPIRIT leads you to Christ, Not after brother. That is what Jesus meant by “NO MAN CAN COME UNTO ME”, what DRAWS US to Jesus, is From God not from ourselves, God turns us to Jesus in our minds by a revealing process, and this starts our salvation process, it has nothing to do with us Choosing God or Christ Jesus from our “OWN”, so-called “FREEWILL” Choices, or there simply would not be any Need for God to Draw us, if we could on our own Chose Him. The Carnal mind we are all born with is contrary to the Spirit of God it is not “SUBJECT” to it neither indeed can be.

None of us chose God he chose us and called us by the power of his spirit, Marty remember when Jesus said to Peter , who do you say I am , Peter responded , You are the Christ the son of the living God, Jesus responded < blessed are you Simon Bar-jona, because flesh and blood did not tell you that (that included Jesus also) But my Father who is in heaven has "REVEALED" it unto You, and i say unto you You are Peter (another words Jesus knew who Peter was also by that same revelation from God), then he went on to say "UPON THIS ROCK I SHALL BUILD THE CHURCH", and the power of the grave shall not prevail. Marty that "ROCK" , was the power of God to get into our minds and reveal the truth to us, and if God reveals it to us it becomes a "reality" to us brother. Jesus plainly told the apostles they did not chose him , he chose them.

It is from God himself and has nothing to do with our “OWN” so-called “FREE” Will choices, We are drawn to Jesus and God the Father by the effectual working of his Spirit. In fact there exists no such thing as a WILL, that is FREE, or it would not be a WILL in the FIRST Place, God gives us “LIBERTY” to express and exercise our “INFLUENCED” WILLS, but an influenced Will, is far from being “FREE”. Marty you know these thing already, let the Spirit have it's perfect work.brother. IMO

peace and love to you and your……………………..gene

February 9, 2014 at 8:11 pm#370841

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2014,04:13)

Gene,

I only want to know if the man who raped the little boy did so because of his own free will, or if God DESTINED him to rape that little boy.

Which one?

MIke………No, He did it by his Carnal Born human mind that Natural Mind set is what brought his will into “captivity” and he sinned . You and I have done the same things, in spirit at times maybe not in actual deed, but our Carnal mind have imagined bad thing at times and we have done some of them, but by the GRACE of God we have not done some of those worst ones, at least I hope none here have, but to deny that propensity was never there and those thoughts have never come into our mind is a lie, because scripture say it has. But fear has regulated us at least most of the time fear is a deturant, That is why the LAW was Given the WAY it was to generate Fear in the minds of those carnal minded people to try to prevent them from sinning.

Remember scripture says, “For When they know God, they glorified Him not, as GOD, so he turned them over “WHERE?, in there MINDS to DO those Thing”. God must KEEP us MIKE by “HIS” SPIRIT, all true believers are being KEPT BY GOD HIMSELF, Our own Wills that are so-called “FREE”,or (separate from God) , have nothing to Do with it. IMO

Mike, Why do you think it says, “Though your sins be as Crimson and Red as Wine , yet they shall be as white as Snow and wool”. We have all sinned Mike and one sin is no different then another, it all sin.

But we are forgiven our sins, thanks be to God our Father's LOVE, who through the precious Blood of His Son Jesus and our brother, has forgiven us all, and has set his Hand to clean us from “ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS”, IN THE BELOVED. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

February 9, 2014 at 9:52 pm#370851

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 10 2014,05:48)

peace and love to you and your……………………..gene

AAAAAmmmen to that Gene.
We dont chose God,God chooses us.
He also chose the twelve apostles, and one is a devil.
All for a good purpose.

wakeup.

February 9, 2014 at 9:57 pm#370852

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 10 2014,06:11)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2014,04:13)

Gene,

I only want to know if the man who raped the little boy did so because of his own free will, or if God DESTINED him to rape that little boy.

Which one?

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

AAAAAAmmmen to those wise and true words.

wakeup.

February 10, 2014 at 1:57 pm#370899

942767

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 10 2014,05:48)

peace and love to you and your……………………..gene

Hi Gene:

That was not my question to you. I know that there is no way that we can be saved except by the gospel, and the gospel is preached to us by those who have the Holy Ghost, and so, yes, it is the Holy Ghost that draws us to Him, and He our Father wants that relationship with us, not everyone wants to serve God, and we all have a choice whether or not to accept his free gift of salvation to us.

If when the gospel is preached to us, we are not saved because of unbelief or some simply do not want to serve God. We had that example of an antheist on this site, who did not want to serve God. He looked upon Him as a dictator and whatever else He called Him on this site.

Jesus said this:

Quote

Jhn 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Jhn 6:65
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Jhn 6:66

From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Did those disciples that stayed with him when they did not understand what he was saying by “eating his flesh and drinking his blood” and those who walked a way have “a choice”?

Love in Christ,
Marty

February 10, 2014 at 2:18 pm#370904

terraricca

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2014,23:33)

I didn't miss it, Pierre.

I'm trying to show you that you're saying the EXACT SAME THING as the rest of us.

Here are your words:

IF ONE DOES NOT KNOW THEN HE CAN NOT GIVE FORESIGHT TO THE OTHER

And now I'll change but one word from what you wrote, and end up saying the SAME EXACT THING:

IF ONE DOES NOT ~~KNOW~~ FORESEE THEN HE CAN NOT GIVE FORESIGHT TO THE OTHER

Do you understand yet? To “foreKNOW” is the same thing as to “foreSEE”.

We are saying the same exact thing, Pierre. We are both saying that God “foreKNOWS” – which means we are both saying that God “foreSEES”.

Mike

ok got it

February 10, 2014 at 3:44 pm#370914

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 10 2014,23:57)

From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.[/size][/b]

Did those disciples that stayed with him when they did not understand what he was saying by “eating his flesh and drinking his blood” and those who walked a way have “a choice”?

Love in Christ,
Marty[/quote]

Marty……..Marty the Gospel “itself” draws no body IT RELAYS A MESSAGE, “HAVE THEY NOT ALL HEARD, HAVE THEY NOT ALL HAD THE GOSPEL PREACHED UNTO THEM, BUT NOT ALL EXCEPTED IT. That difference had nothing to do with there so-called “Free Will” Choices.

Those who fell away were not of God in the first place or they would have endured. They were like many today that are so-called “CHRISTIANS”, but are they truly Converted People who have the “REALITY” of God's Spirit working in them? If they were then why are there over 4000 different denominations teaching all these different false teachings.

When these people hear their forms of the “GOSPEL” and join them, and give their minds to those false teachers, are they truly converted because they heard those so-called Gospel messages, or are they simple deceived into accepting that form of religion that was presented to them. There are many called but only a “few” Chosen . these Chosen by God were known by him, even before they were born IMO.

God Chose them Just as he chose Jesus, and all the true apostles . Many of those people in that day saw all or heard about all the miracles being done and saw it as special, and wanted to be part of it, they saw Thousand of people being feed and Cured of all there diseases, they knew there was something special about it, and want to be a part of it all, So with joy they received it, but just as the Parable of the seed showed, when the heat or the “reality” of what was required came, they fell away, all but a few “CHOSEN” ONES. Those Chosen minds were secured by the “ROCK”, our one and only GOD, and they remained and gave their whole lives also as a Wittiness to the power of the LIVING God that was “IN”them.

Marty Jesus himself was there and they saw it all, and willed to be a part of it , but the true Strength is, where “IRON MEETS THE RAIL” and many fell away, so it is not Just about hearing the Gospel, it take far more then that brother. for Paul said the whole world had heard the gospel preached.

True Faith is not a supposition of man own mind, it is a Gift from GOD. Now Faith “IS” the substance of thing HOPED FOR, it also “IS”, THE “EVIDENCE” of thing NOT SEEN> now seeing that no man has seen God at anytime it must be through a “REVELATION” process into the MIND of a Man, so that “EVIDENCE” can abide “IN” Him.

Therefore Jesus said “BLESSED” are those who “believe” and have Not (physically) SEEN, That does not come from the will of any Man, but from the Will of God alone. Because it is God himself who has chosen us from the foundation of the world to be “IN” Christ Jesus and in HIM and they “IN” Us. WE are the “ELECT” of GOD our FATHER. And we did not “ELECT” ourselves. BY our own so-called “freewill” choices. IMO

Marty it is “ALL a work of GOD, from start to finish, no one gets the GLORY for your or my Salvation, but GOD the FATHER alone, even if he did it through our Brother Jesus, the Christ, It still was a work of GOD. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………….gene

February 10, 2014 at 5:09 pm#370919

942767

Participant

Hi Gene:

On what basis did God choose you over someone else? He said that He was not willing that any man should perish, but that all would come to repentance. God is not a respecter of persons. He has done what He is going to do for the sake of reconciling the world unto Himself.

While it is true that someone may not come to God the instance that he hears the gospel, but may come at a later time in his life. The person that is preaching the gospel should be sent by God, and will be preaching by the Holy Ghost. Just like Jesus said in His ministry. He said that it was His Father dwelling within him that did the works.

God chose Jesus, well, yes, He did. Jesus was His Only Begotten Son. The rest of God's children are reconciled to Him by the Spirit of adoption.

Relative to the saving Faith. This is what the scriptures state:

Quote

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Rom 10:5

For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Rom 10:6

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

Rom 10:7

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

Rom 10:8

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Rom 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:12

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Rom 10:13

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom 10:14

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Quote

Rom 10:16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Rom 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

February 10, 2014 at 8:48 pm#370922

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 10 2014,08:52)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 10 2014,05:48)

peace and love to you and your……………………..gene

AAAAAmmmen to that Gene.
We dont chose God,God chooses us.
He also chose the twelve apostles, and one is a devil.
All for a good purpose.

wakeup.

Okay you guys. If God chooses one of you to be a devil tomorrow for his good purposes, then I guess you have to say aaaaaaaammmen and God is good, and accept his decision, and be happy that your butt will fry in Hell, right?

February 10, 2014 at 10:07 pm#370928

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 09 2014,13:11)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2014,04:13)

Gene,

I only want to know if the man who raped the little boy did so because of his own free will, or if God DESTINED him to rape that little boy.

Which one?

MIke………No, He did it by his Carnal Born human mind that Natural Mind set is what brought his will into “captivity” and he sinned .

Gene,

WHO, exactly, is holding the man's will in captivity?

February 10, 2014 at 10:18 pm#370930

Blocked

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 10 2014,10:09)

……it is true that someone may not come to God the instance that he hears the gospel, but may come at a later time in his life.

Luke 13
6 “A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any.

7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’

8 “‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it.

9 If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’”

Some of us fig trees take a little longer than others to bear fruit. It's good to have a patient God.

February 10, 2014 at 11:08 pm#370934

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 11 2014,06:48)

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 10 2014,08:52)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 10 2014,05:48)

peace and love to you and your……………………..gene

AAAAAmmmen to that Gene.
We dont chose God,God chooses us.
He also chose the twelve apostles, and one is a devil.
All for a good purpose.

wakeup.

T8.

Only if he or she fits into His plan.
Not every person.
God has a plan from day one,incase you are not aware of that.

Just to name a few:
1.Pharaoh
2.king of assyria
3.king of babylon
4.darius
5.cyrus.
6.king herod.
7.judas.
8.the son of perdition.

Lamentations 2:17 The LORD hath done that which he had devised; he hath fulfilled his word that he had commanded in the days of old: he hath thrown down, and hath not pitied: and he hath caused thine enemy to rejoice over thee, ***he hath set up the horn of thine adversaries***.

wakeup.

February 10, 2014 at 11:13 pm#370935

Participant

Marty.

Many are called but a few chosen.
All truly in Christ shall be saved.

wakeup.

February 11, 2014 at 12:25 am#370946

Blocked

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 10 2014,16:08)

Lamentations 2:17 The LORD hath done that which he had devised; he hath fulfilled his word that he had commanded in the days of old……….

(Wakeup, the scripture you posted is another of the many times that God's “word” does NOT refer to a living breathing being. You can add that one to the list I made for you in the other thread today.)

February 11, 2014 at 12:58 am#370955

Participant

Marty………This is “A” Day of Salvation Who ever said it is the ONLY DAY of SALVATION and again every Man in His or Her ORDER I believe that all will eventually come to repent, When God the Fathers Sprit starts to work with then. Your concept as a even playing field for everyone is not valid Marty, because some never will get it in this life time, But with God all things are possible, Jesus told us right. He also said this ALL MANOR of SIN “SHALL” “BE” forgiven Man. That is a general statement Marty, and i believe it will but again every man in his or her order. Not all are being called to salvation now in fact most of the world populations have not even heard it, even though it has been preached in all the world.

My point in all of this dialog is that it is God who saves apart from our own separate WILLS. Unless God is working in our Will to Draw us to him we would never in a million Chose him or Jesus. Why do I hound so much about that?, it is because there is a very dangerous trap, in think that You or we of our own selves “Chose” God, it works to engender a very destructive righteousness of the “self”, because if you attribute your salvation movement to your “OWN” SELF, WILL, then who needs God. Do you see my point brother?

Now lets consider some other scripture about how much we were involved in our Calling and Election, We have an scripture that says It is “NOT of Him that “WILL” but GOD that Calls. now if it were up to us to chose on our own then why would it say it is “NOT of Him that “WILLS”? , and as i have brought out before to you, Why does it say for He (God) works in us “BOTH” to WILL and DO of “HIS” Good Pleasure

Now if He God causes me to WILL for something I will, WILL it, and it that Will is what pleases God I will do it. Because he that is in me is GREATER, then he that is in the world, and I still am in the world being Kept by GOd, There is NONE that can deliver from his Hand, He is SOVEREIGN in ALL Things Above ALL Thing and BLESSED for EVER.

This whole concept that we are this Being who's WILLS are “FREE” is a false teaching, fact is we are all held captive by our minds and we will do what ever we are thinking about. Now if that mind is being driven by the Spirit of God, it will do that, and if by the Lusts of the flesh and eyes it will do that.

Paul also gave us something else to consider, he said what if God wanting to show He had Mercy, created vessels of Mercy, and what if God wanting to show he had wrath created vessels of Wrath, You would say then , Why does Judge us then, for who can resist His WILL, Paul's answer Yea, but who are you “O” man that replies against God, does not the potter have “POWER” OVER THE CLAY to make of it as He see fit.?

Marty many People hate those scriptures, because it shows the absolute SOVEREIGNTY,our Heavenly Father He is GOD and there is NO OTHER. Another good example was Pharaoh How God hardened his heart , well God can also soften Hearts, I (God) will take out of them the stony Heart (hard heart) and give them hearts of Flesh (soft hearts), and I (God) will write my Laws on there inward Parts and they shall be my People and I (God) shall be their GOD. That is all done by the Will of God and Not of the so-called “FREE” Will of Man .

Just as Jesus said NO MAN “CAN” come unto me “EXCEPT” the FATHER “DRAW” HIM. NO one Goes to Christ Jesus on their own , unless they are being drawn by God. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene

February 11, 2014 at 1:48 am#370959