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T8:
This is what I said.
Quote I am one of God's creatures, and a son of God by the Spirit of adoption through Jesus Christ, my Lord, and He alone created Adam, but He did not create me as he did Adam.
I am born of Adam's seed, but no He did not create me, He formed me in the womb from the sperm of Adam in the womb of my mother.You just quote the last sentence of what I said above. To me it is obvious that I was speaking in the last sentence of what I stated in the first sentence. I said that I was one of God's creatures, but that I was not created as Adam was created, and that is what I was saying, and I explained that I was born of the sperm of Adam, and therefore, part of the creation.
And, Jesus explained what he meant by stating that “'before Abraham was 'I Am'” by stating “Abraham desired to see my day, and he saw it and he was glad”. He was foreordained to come at a particular point in time to fulfill God's plan for humanity, and the Word in John 1 pertains to him, but is not a person as a sentient person. The Word was made flesh. It is at this time that the Word became a person, a human being. Also, if the Word was God as is stated in John 1c, then it cannot mean Jesus, because he said that “he was not God”.
Yes, Jesus is the “firsborn of all creation”, the firstborn of God, and beginning of the new creation, the last Adam.
This is what the scripture states relative to Jesus being the firsborn:
Quote
Col 1:18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
And relative to Philippians 2, he was “in the form of God” and is as God's Christ, both in his ministry on earth and now as head of the church, but to be “in the form of God” does not make that person God, and he made that clear, by stating that he could do nothing of himself, but did what the Father showed him and spoke what gave him to speak.
God does not tell us to whom he was speaking when he said “let us make man in his image”, and so, you may believe that he was speaking of Jesus being there, but that would be speculation without a specific scripture that states that. I happen to believe that he was speaking to the Elohim, angels and men and ultimately, Jesus, and it is clear that the angels were there from Job 38.
I believe that the following scripture is key to understanding that Jesus was foreordained but did not exist as a sentient person, but that God knew that a specific point in time he would have a Son through whom his plan for this world and for humanity would be fulfilled.
Quote
Eph 1:9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Tools specific to Eph 1:10
Eph 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Tools specific to Eph 1:11
Eph 1:11
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 08 2014,10:29) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2014,11:38) I want to know why those SAME EXACT REASONS cannot by applied in John 1:1 and 1:14.
Mike……..Simple, It's one thing to say, Jesus speaks GOD the FATHERS Word to us, and it's quite different to say He “IS” those WORDS, so you can Get it to say Jesus is (A) GOD . Now there you have it, clear as can be said.
Okay Gene. Thanks for being direct and to the point.
First, I want to point out that I don't believe scriptures a certain way just so I can get them to say Jesus is a god.
There are at least 5 scripture in which Jesus is clearly called a god. I don't have to invent these scriptures, because they're right there in the Bible for anyone to read.
So it's not that I WANT Jesus to be a god. It's that I actually BELIEVE the scriptures that say he is one.
Now, on to your main point: I agree with you that it would be nonsensical to claim that Jesus was the literal words God spoke. I have NEVER claimed such a thing, and wouldn't believe such a ludicrous thing in a million years. Are we clear that I am NOT claiming that Jesus is the literal words God spoke?
Now, let me tell you once again about the spokesman for the ancient King of Abyssinia:
The King of Abyssinia had a SPOKESMEN who was given the TITLE Kal Hatze. Gene, take a wild guess what Kal Hatze means. Oh, that's right! You've already heard this story from me a hundred times, so you already KNOW what Kal Hatze means, right?
Just in case, Kal Hatze means “The Word of the King”. Okay, this isn't some made up stuff, Gene. It is an historical FACT that the King of Abyssinia had a SPOKESMAN called “The Word of the King”.
Are we clear on this point? I hope so. Now, just one question for you:
Gene, does the FACT that the King of Abyissinia's SPOKESMAN was called “The Word of the King” imply that the king's SPOKESMAN was in fact a literal spoken word or words from the king? YES or NO?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 08 2014,11:33) Now if you could have lived forever and not had to died, a horrible and torturous death , would that be easy to you even if you know what the outcome would be.
Are you kidding me? I would die a torturous death if it meant my 12 year old son could go on living his life on earth.I would die 100 torturous deaths in exchange for eternity at God's right hand, ruling over heaven and earth as the second most powerful being in existence.
And during each torturous death, I would NOT be telling people I was “making a great sacrifice” for them. I would be laughing through the pain and telling them how LUCKY I was to have won the greatest lottery of all time.
On the other hand, if I was already a human being who was going to live in God's favor for eternity, and then God requested that I lower myself and live as a cockroach for 33 years, and then be made a human again – I would consider THAT a sacrifice that I had made.
Likewise, the fact that Jesus was already existing in the form of God where he would have dwelled for eternity, before emptying himself and being made in the MUCH LOWER form of a flesh and blood human being for 33 years, makes what he did for us a true sacrifice.
He never even had to suffer the trials of being a human at all – let alone die a painful death. But he emptied himself and DID suffer these things for us. And THAT is what makes what he did a sacrifice.
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 09 2014,20:29) And, Jesus explained what he meant by stating that “'before Abraham was 'I Am'”……….
What happens to your doctrine if you use the correct English translation, Marty.What happens if you realize that Jesus said, “Before Abraham was, I have existed” ?
Would THAT be enough to put you on the right track?
I often wonder about things like that. Every time I see you non-preexisters bending over backwards to understand certain scriptural words in a NONSENSICAL way to support your doctrine – I wonder what would happen if you let yourselves understand those words in the most sensible and logical way they could be understood.
Hmmm……….
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,14:06) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 08 2014,11:33) Now if you could have lived forever and not had to died, a horrible and torturous death , would that be easy to you even if you know what the outcome would be.
Are you kidding me? I would die a torturous death if it meant my 12 year old son could go on living his life on earth.I would die 100 torturous deaths in exchange for eternity at God's right hand, ruling over heaven and earth as the second most powerful being in existence.
And during each torturous death, I would NOT be telling people I was “making a great sacrifice” for them. I would be laughing through the pain and telling them how LUCKY I was to have won the greatest lottery of all time.
On the other hand, if I was already a human being who was going to live in God's favor for eternity, and then God requested that I lower myself and live as a cockroach for 33 years, and then be made a human again – I would consider THAT a sacrifice that I had made.
Likewise, the fact that Jesus was already existing in the form of God where he would have dwelled for eternity, before emptying himself and being made in the MUCH LOWER form of a flesh and blood human being for 33 years, makes what he did for us a true sacrifice.
He never even had to suffer the trials of being a human at all – let alone die a painful death. But he emptied himself and DID suffer these things for us. And THAT is what makes what he did a sacrifice.
Mikeb.Who is He that emptied Himself?
Is he the spokesman?
If so;what was he before?wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,14:19) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 09 2014,20:29) And, Jesus explained what he meant by stating that “'before Abraham was 'I Am'”……….
What happens to your doctrine if you use the correct English translation, Marty.What happens if you realize that Jesus said, “Before Abraham was, I have existed” ?
Would THAT be enough to put you on the right track?
I often wonder about things like that. Every time I see you non-preexisters bending over backwards to understand certain scriptural words in a NONSENSICAL way to support your doctrine – I wonder what would happen if you let yourselves understand those words in the most sensible and logical way they could be understood.
Hmmm……….
Mike b.You are contradicting yourself.
1.You say He is a spokesman.
2.You believe he preexisted?
3.You also believe he emptied Himself.
4.WHO IS HE?
5.But you dont believe He is the litteral Word
of God.What do you really believe?
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 10 2014,13:29) T8: This is what I said.
Quote I am one of God's creatures, and a son of God by the Spirit of adoption through Jesus Christ, my Lord, and He alone created Adam, but He did not create me as he did Adam.
I am born of Adam's seed, but no He did not create me, He formed me in the womb from the sperm of Adam in the womb of my mother.You just quote the last sentence of what I said above. To me it is obvious that I was speaking in the last sentence of what I stated in the first sentence. I said that I was one of God's creatures, but that I was not created as Adam was created, and that is what I was saying, and I explained that I was born of the sperm of Adam, and therefore, part of the creation.
And, Jesus explained what he meant by stating that “'before Abraham was 'I Am'” by stating “Abraham desired to see my day, and he saw it and he was glad”. He was foreordained to come at a particular point in time to fulfill God's plan for humanity, and the Word in John 1 pertains to him, but is not a person as a sentient person. The Word was made flesh. It is at this time that the Word became a person, a human being. Also, if the Word was God as is stated in John 1c, then it cannot mean Jesus, because he said that “he was not God”.
Yes, Jesus is the “firsborn of all creation”, the firstborn of God, and beginning of the new creation, the last Adam.
This is what the scripture states relative to Jesus being the firsborn:
Quote
Col 1:18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
And relative to Philippians 2, he was “in the form of God” and is as God's Christ, both in his ministry on earth and now as head of the church, but to be “in the form of God” does not make that person God, and he made that clear, by stating that he could do nothing of himself, but did what the Father showed him and spoke what gave him to speak.
God does not tell us to whom he was speaking when he said “let us make man in his image”, and so, you may believe that he was speaking of Jesus being there, but that would be speculation without a specific scripture that states that. I happen to believe that he was speaking to the Elohim, angels and men and ultimately, Jesus, and it is clear that the angels were there from Job 38.
I believe that the following scripture is key to understanding that Jesus was foreordained but did not exist as a sentient person, but that God knew that a specific point in time he would have a Son through whom his plan for this world and for humanity would be fulfilled.
Quote
Eph 1:9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Tools specific to Eph 1:10
Eph 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Tools specific to Eph 1:11
Eph 1:11
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.I agree with most of your statement.
But When God said;let us make man—,
that was the Word speaking.
*For all things are created by HIM*.That was no angel speaking.
The word with a form in God's image
was speaking.They both had glory together creating.
The Word with the form of God emptied himself,
and became man. From spirit to flesh.wakeup.
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 10 2014,13:29) T8: This is what I said.
Quote I am one of God's creatures, and a son of God by the Spirit of adoption through Jesus Christ, my Lord, and He alone created Adam, but He did not create me as he did Adam.
I am born of Adam's seed, but no He did not create me, He formed me in the womb from the sperm of Adam in the womb of my mother.You just quote the last sentence of what I said above. To me it is obvious that I was speaking in the last sentence of what I stated in the first sentence. I said that I was one of God's creatures, but that I was not created as Adam was created, and that is what I was saying, and I explained that I was born of the sperm of Adam, and therefore, part of the creation.
And, Jesus explained what he meant by stating that “'before Abraham was 'I Am'” by stating “Abraham desired to see my day, and he saw it and he was glad”. He was foreordained to come at a particular point in time to fulfill God's plan for humanity, and the Word in John 1 pertains to him, but is not a person as a sentient person. The Word was made flesh. It is at this time that the Word became a person, a human being. Also, if the Word was God as is stated in John 1c, then it cannot mean Jesus, because he said that “he was not God”.
Yes, Jesus is the “firsborn of all creation”, the firstborn of God, and beginning of the new creation, the last Adam.
This is what the scripture states relative to Jesus being the firsborn:
Quote
Col 1:18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
And relative to Philippians 2, he was “in the form of God” and is as God's Christ, both in his ministry on earth and now as head of the church, but to be “in the form of God” does not make that person God, and he made that clear, by stating that he could do nothing of himself, but did what the Father showed him and spoke what gave him to speak.
God does not tell us to whom he was speaking when he said “let us make man in his image”, and so, you may believe that he was speaking of Jesus being there, but that would be speculation without a specific scripture that states that. I happen to believe that he was speaking to the Elohim, angels and men and ultimately, Jesus, and it is clear that the angels were there from Job 38.
I believe that the following scripture is key to understanding that Jesus was foreordained but did not exist as a sentient person, but that God knew that a specific point in time he would have a Son through whom his plan for this world and for humanity would be fulfilled.
Quote
Eph 1:9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Tools specific to Eph 1:10
Eph 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Tools specific to Eph 1:11
Eph 1:11
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Love in Christ,
Marty
T8……Marty has presented it right. You need to rethink Jesus's Preexistence. and the a “little” god, “big” God, thing to.Jesus is what God had in mind for all humanity from the very start of creation, from foundations of the earth. Making Jesus a preexistent being, “WORKS” to deny this reality and diminishes God the Fathers work in the “MAN” Jesus and all his human creation.
Mike Posted a place where a person wrote about there being only one God, I agree with that person completely, the only problem with You and Mike is, you really don't “truly” believe him, because you both believe Jesus was a God, how be it a “little' one, but never the less a God. Mike believe in the multiplicity of Gods are “TRUE” God's that is an Idolatrous statement. However anything can be a God, but only in a “RELATIVE” SENSE, even an Ant can be a God to a person.
But dose that make him a God to us (true believers) should “I” acknowledge them as a God of any kind “NO” NOT AT ALL! same with all the other Gods' Mike and his followers believe we should acknowledge as “TRUE” GOD”S , which is pure rubbish if you as me> I and Jesus my brother have ONLY ONE GOD and BELIEVE NO OTHER GOD EXISTS, to “US” that is.
You both have come “PART” Way out of those false teachings of the Triniarians, but still believe in the preexistenct Jesus , which is also their teachings, in fact they started those teachings in the first place and still teach it. You both need to come all the way out of those “MYSTERY RELIGIOUS” teaching, not just part of the way out. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,14:19) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 09 2014,20:29) And, Jesus explained what he meant by stating that “'before Abraham was 'I Am'”……….
What happens to your doctrine if you use the correct English translation, Marty.What happens if you realize that Jesus said, “Before Abraham was, I have existed” ?
Would THAT be enough to put you on the right track?
I often wonder about things like that. Every time I see you non-preexisters bending over backwards to understand certain scriptural words in a NONSENSICAL way to support your doctrine – I wonder what would happen if you let yourselves understand those words in the most sensible and logical way they could be understood.
Hmmm……….
Hi Mike:Let's see what Jesus said if we read John 8 in context. You want to take one part of the scriptures and form your opinion based on that one statement.
He said:
Quote
Jhn 8:28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Jhn 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
Jhn 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Jhn 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jhn 8:33
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jhn 8:37
I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Jhn 8:40
But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Jhn 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Jhn 8:51
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Jhn 8:52
Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
Jhn 8:53
Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
Jhn 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Jhn 8:57
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jhn 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (I exist)
And so, he was speaking of himself existing as a man, and you know that he did not exist as a man until he was born into this world if in fact he did pre-exist. And therefore, he was not speaking of existing as a sentient person, but he was foreordained to be sent by God to reconcile the world unto himself at a specific point in time, and so, he did exist in the heart of the Father who has foreseen all things according to His plan for this world and for humanity.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Wakeup:
You say:
Quote But When God said;let us make man—,
that was the Word speaking.
*For all things are created by HIM*.Please read what you said here and then read the scripture in Genesis 1:26. It does not say that God spoke through anyone. It was He Himself that was speaking. And I have already given you scripture that states that He created the initial creation by Himself.
You are trying to force the text to mean that the Word in John 1 is a person, but it does not say that.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,14:06) I would die 100 torturous deaths in exchange for eternity at God's right hand, ruling over heaven and earth as the second most powerful being in existence. And during each torturous death, I would NOT be telling people I was “making a great sacrifice” for them. I would be laughing through the pain and telling them how LUCKY I was to have won the greatest lottery of all time.
Mike……..You remind me of a true documentary i once saw, of a prisoner who was going to be electrocuted in prison. The day before his execution he was talking like you are , it was a cake walk and he boasted about it. You would have thought, this guy is not afraid at all and was quite a man. But on the very hour when they came and shaved his head and started to take him to the chamber where the chair was , he pissed his pants, and had to have a guard on both sides of him to support him because he could not even walk, Not a single boastful word Just trembling and shaking and moaning. He was shaking so bad they couldn't hardly get the skull cap on him and strap him in. I tell you for sure that was not the same big talking man that existed the day before the reality set in.It was not a past existent being who understood all of God creative powers that said, MY GOD, MY GOD, HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME? that was a man who never had any prexistent Life before he was born on this earth, a Man who had never experience any other form of existence, if you ask me. A man who's only life he ever had was when he was born on this earth.
Mike you are simply delusional about death and Jesus not being afraid and in great agony over his lose of HUMAN LIFE. Remember this Mike the truth is where the Iron meet the rail, why because that is where the pressure is at. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,13:58) Gene, does the FACT that the King of Abyissinia's SPOKESMAN was called “The Word of the King” imply that the king's SPOKESMAN was in fact a literal spoken word or words from the king? YES or NO?
Mike….. NO The spokesman was not the LITERIAL word of the KING, because he spoke the kings word , he was the quoter of the Kings Words.Hi Mike:
It was a piece of cake for him?
Quote Luke 22:41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
What do you think?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Jan. 11 2014,06:32) Hi Mike: It was a piece of cake for him?
Quote Luke 22:41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
What do you think?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty/Gene.You believe:
1.Jesus was a man created to speak God's Word.
2.He did not exist before the world was
3.He only existed at His birth.Isaiah 44:6 ***Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel***,
*AND* his redeemer the LORD of hosts***;
***I am the first, and I am the last***;
***and beside me there is no God***.PLEASE EXPLAIN.
1.Two are speaking here.
2.Who is the king of israel?
3.Who is His redeemer,the Lord of host?
4.Who is the first and the last?
TAKE NOTE. **BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD**.wakeup.
Wakeup, Wakeup, Wakeup,……. Let look at this again brother, Thus saith the LORD the KING of ISRAEL, And “HIS” (ISRAEL'S) redeemer, the LORD of hosts, I am the first and the Last, and beside “ME” there is “NO” GOD.
Wakeup, there you have it in a nut shell, if you would only believe that alone, it would straighten out so much for you. The LORD “ADONIA” or YAHWEH is ISRAEL'S redeemer and He is the LORD “ADONIA” or YAHWEH of hosts, and HE is the First and the Last, and BESIDE HIM the is “NO” GOD. PLEASE JUST BELIEVE THAT Wakeup.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 12 2014,01:30) Wakeup, Wakeup, Wakeup,……. Let look at this again brother, Thus saith the LORD the KING of ISRAEL, And “HIS” (ISRAEL'S) redeemer, the LORD of hosts, I am the first and the Last, and beside “ME” there is “NO” GOD. Wakeup, there you have it in a nut shell, if you would only believe that alone, it would straighten out so much for you. The LORD “ADONIA” or YAHWEH is ISRAEL'S redeemer and He is the LORD “ADONIA” or YAHWEH of hosts, and HE is the First and the Last, and BESIDE HIM the is “NO” GOD. PLEASE JUST BELIEVE THAT Wakeup.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Gene b.Anyone can do that, and have been doing it as they go.
Just move the coma here, and a little word there.
And quote some hebrew translations, and then some greek
and, bingo; the sheep should accept that.So you have not satisfactorily explained my question.
Try again:
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, **AND** his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
1.The Lord the king of israel.(is one).
2.HIS Redeeemer the Lord of Host.(is another one).
3.The first and the last.(??).
4.There is only one God.(??).Israel is not HE.You just made this up,to satisfy yourself.
It says the *KING OF* israel's redeemer,the LORD OF HOST.The king of israel and the Lord of Host saying:
I am the the first and I am the last,and beside me there is no God.CAN YOU DO IT WITHOUT CHANGING THE STRUCTURE OF THE SENTENCE? Anyone is welcome to try,even my good
boxing partner named Terra.wakeup.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 12 2014,01:30) Wakeup, Wakeup, Wakeup,……. Let look at this again brother, Thus saith the LORD the KING of ISRAEL, And “HIS” (ISRAEL'S) redeemer, the LORD of hosts, I am the first and the Last, and beside “ME” there is “NO” GOD. Wakeup, there you have it in a nut shell, if you would only believe that alone, it would straighten out so much for you. The LORD “ADONIA” or YAHWEH is ISRAEL'S redeemer and He is the LORD “ADONIA” or YAHWEH of hosts, and HE is the First and the Last, and BESIDE HIM the is “NO” GOD. PLEASE JUST BELIEVE THAT Wakeup.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Hi Wakeup:I agree with Gene. This is how the NIV has this verse:
Quote
Isa 44:6“This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
NASB:
Isa 44:6
“Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
‘I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.Love in Christ,
MartyTerricca and wakeup………Wrong Me and Marty understand exactly what we are reading and our understanding lines up with all scriptures. You guys cant even believe simple straight foreword scriptures, like where Jesus said to His God, thou art the “ONLY” true God. Did you guys miss the word “ONLY” there. or perhaps this is even clearer for you seeing you deny, what God himself Said , that there is “NO” God Besides “ME”. And here is another scripture, You can say is wrong, like all the others you people twist and disagree with.
! cor 8:4……… we know that there is no idol in the world, and that there is “NO” God, but “ONE”.
So tell us O wise ones, do we still don't even understand, or is it YOU guys, who truly don't understand. I could list many, many. ,many scriptures that go along with what we are saying. Not to even mention the Spriit bears witness with our Spirits that we are telling the truth and presenting it right. It is you guys who have to add words and meanings to scriptures and change from upper case lettering to lower case lettering , to try to make little God's and big God's, and “MANY” God's. you guys, Force the texts to say, what in fact it is not saying, not us. IMO
peace and love……………………………………….gene
Wakeup………Before you can even get started in knowing the truth , you have to come to see Jesus was a MAN, and never a God of any kind, and He never existed before his berth on this earth, except in the PLAN and WILL Of the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD, who by the way Jesus said was HIS GOD also. Let this truth in and it will enlighten you and you will begin to see things as Jesus and we also do. Wakeup PLEASE, dump all that past garbage and start a NEW, brother.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene
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